Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[Kingsrule]

If u present 2 tiers of products, it's pretty clear, with the right names its even clearer.....

 

[engadin]

Names for different tiers? Well, we all are Taikonauts, no?

水手. 船长
Shuǐshǒu chuánzhǎng

captain sailor

… would be appropriate?

 

[adyc]

The more important question is whether the material of chassis will affect the sound. If Takio luxury sounds better, I don’t think there are many orders of Economy

 

[dminches]

The more important question is whether the material of chassis will affect the sound. If Takio luxury sounds better, I don’t think there are many orders of Economy

Not everyone can afford the luxury. Having an economy line may bring in a lot more buyers.

 

[RUIN*ish]

While its fresh in my mind..
Just finished listening to @nenon system today. Third time experiencing this.
Vassil has done the impossible and made huge horns dissappear.
A soundstage,dynamics,and bass that would have most audiophiles inspire a wet dream.
His work on the room is truly a labor of love and it shows esthetically and in the musicality of the system.
I learned a lot...
Marc

 

[joet]

I know Roon issues with the Olympus have been reported and discussed here, so I'll add a data point. For the past three days playback suddenly stopped with a message "Roon has lost control of the audio device". Pressing play restarted the music, picking up where it left off. This has happened once each day. In all three cases the listening sessions were no more than two hours when the error occurred, and they didnt last much longer. I'm using an Olympus IO with the latest Roon updates and the complete Taiko network stack. All the music I've been listening to has been from a NAS connected directly to the Taiko router. Qobuz wasn't involved.

 

[kswanson27]

I know Roon issues with the Olympus have been reported and discussed here, so I'll add a data point. For the past three days playback suddenly stopped with a message "Roon has lost control of the audio device". Pressing play restarted the music, picking up where it left off. This has happened once each day. In all three cases the listening sessions were no more than two hours when the error occurred, and they didnt last much longer. I'm using an Olympus IO with the latest Roon updates and the complete Taiko network stack. All the music I've been listening to has been from a NAS connected directly to the Taiko router. Qobuz wasn't involved.

I had the same experience this afternoon and I'm, unfortunately, not running any Taiko gear but an Intel i5 NUC with ROC. Pressing play fixed it here too.

 

[joet]

I had the same experience this afternoon and I'm, unfortunately, not running any Taiko gear but an Intel i5 NUC with ROC. Pressing play fixed it here too.

Thanks, that good info. So it's likely a Roon issue that has little to do with the Olympus.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks, that good info. So it's likely a Roon issue that has little to do with the Olympus.

Well yes and no. This is indeed a commonly occurring issue beyond Olympus, and it seems to show up more frequently with networked systems (those using separate Roon endpoints). What actually happens in those cases, and what we see ourselves when connecting remotely to affected customers, is that RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) drops the connection to the endpoint. The resemblance is that networked systems are more sensitive to the environment they operate in, wireless extenders are the most common cause of disturbances for example. It varies quite a bit depending on the environment, and it also fluctuates with different Roon builds. For example, on the Olympus I use personally, it only happened once for a few weeks, about six months ago, during a specific Roon build, and it disappeared with the next update.

So, what we’re really looking at is an increased sensitivity to environmental differences with XDMI. That’s likely a side effect of the intentionally “inefficient” data-processing methodology we use, by design, to achieve higher sound quality. Because of that, even a small external glitch can trigger a drop. With USB the buffers, packet rate etc is so different that when these events occur they go more often unnoticed as the stream is restarted before the buffers are empty.

What we’re doing about it:

We’ve been working on a new XDMI driver that allows us to use alternative transport methods, adjust the data “pace” or speed, and fine-tune resilience by adding (optional) more and/or larger buffers. All of this will be configurable because, as is probably obvious by now, every change we make affects sound quality. Buffers, footers, cables, they all have an audible impact. We also expect this new driver to bring a further improvement in sound quality, which will be a nice bonus.

On top of that, we’re developing a new support and remote-management system that enables detailed log collection and centralized management for Taiko Servers and Routers. Together, these additions will allow us to dynamically adjust software and driver behavior, not only to increase connection resilience but very likely to further improve sound quality by adapting to each system’s unique environment.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Not feeling the names "Economy Line" and Luxury Line" at all. Sounds diminished and cheap.

How about "Taiko Basic" and "Taiko Reference" ........

Indeed, nobody likes to fly coach

An obvious distinction would be to name it what it is, “Copper Line” or “Cu Edition” or something along those lines.

However, it makes sense to apply this principle across all our product lines, so it needs some further thought.

We do absolutely need to address the hard-to-crack nut of achieving reasonable lead times for products that are very difficult to manufacture, requiring skilled staff, significant assembly time, and parts with limited availability. The only realistic solution is to use more commonly available components for a second line, combined with a reduced complexity, less “ultra high-end” chassis, which makes having two distinct product lines the only viable path forward.

 

[Taiko Audio]

The more important question is whether the material of chassis will affect the sound. If Takio luxury sounds better, I don’t think there are many orders of Economy

Yes, it absolutely does. We do, however, get a lot of requests for more affordable products. We even have people ordering a DC Distributor only, just to have something made by Taiko, as it’s currently our lowest-priced offering. That’s honestly amazing to me, and it makes me want to offer these people something more.

In addition, I believe many people would gladly choose a product that’s available right away, even if it performs at, say, 85% of the top model, rather than having to wait a long time.

 

[Taiko Audio]

...personally, I would leave out any references to cost, value, etc. to avoid consumer confusion and attack language from the anti-expensive mafia over pricing. One man's value is another man's mortgage payment.

---Taiko Switch, Taiko Router, Taiko XYZ Product.
---Taiko Reference Switch, Taiko Reference Router, Taiko Reference XYZ Product.

I find these things can get confusing at times. Signature is better than Reference, is it?

Yeah, “Signature” would indeed feel more appropriate to me personally as well.

 

[joet]

Well yes and no. This is indeed a commonly occurring issue beyond Olympus, and it seems to show up more frequently with networked systems (those using separate Roon endpoints). What actually happens in those cases, and what we see ourselves when connecting remotely to affected customers, is that RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) drops the connection to the endpoint. The resemblance is that networked systems are more sensitive to the environment they operate in, wireless extenders are the most common cause of disturbances for example. It varies quite a bit depending on the environment, and it also fluctuates with different Roon builds. For example, on the Olympus I use personally, it only happened once for a few weeks, about six months ago, during a specific Roon build, and it disappeared with the next update.

So, what we’re really looking at is an increased sensitivity to environmental differences with XDMI. That’s likely a side effect of the intentionally “inefficient” data-processing methodology we use, by design, to achieve higher sound quality. Because of that, even a small external glitch can trigger a drop. With USB the buffers, packet rate etc is so different that when these events occur they go more often unnoticed as the stream is restarted before the buffers are empty.

What we’re doing about it:

We’ve been working on a new XDMI driver that allows us to use alternative transport methods, adjust the data “pace” or speed, and fine-tune resilience by adding (optional) more and/or larger buffers. All of this will be configurable because, as is probably obvious by now, every change we make affects sound quality. Buffers, footers, cables, they all have an audible impact. We also expect this new driver to bring a further improvement in sound quality, which will be a welcome bonus.

On top of that, we’re developing a new support and remote-management system that enables detailed log collection and centralized management for Taiko Servers and Routers. Together, these additions will allow us to dynamically adjust software and driver behavior, not only to increase connection resilience but very likely to further improve sound quality by adapting to each system’s unique environment.

Thank you for the insight, Emile. It's great hearing you have a solution that improves SQ! But I'm not surprised. For me, so far, it has occurred sporadically. So it's really not a big distraction. If it occurred more frequently it probably would be.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you for the insight, Emile. It's great hearing you have a solution that improves SQ! But I'm not surprised. For me, so far, it has occurred sporadically. So it's really not a big distraction. If it occurred more frequently it probably would be.

Just to be clear, it started recently (after applying last week’s update)?

 

[MusicFellow]

However, it makes sense to apply this principle across all our product lines, so it needs some further thought.

We do absolutely need to address the hard-to-crack nut of achieving reasonable lead times for products that are very difficult to manufacture, requiring skilled staff, significant assembly time, and parts with limited availability. The only realistic solution is to use more commonly available components for a second line, combined with a reduced complexity, less “ultra high-end” chassis, which makes having two distinct product lines the only viable path forward.

Hi Emile,

I'd like to add (but's it probably been that idea from the beginning) that also / especially the "Top Tier" line of products using the elaborate and costly copper cases, can be upgraded in the future. So should Taiko come up with say a better version (= internals) for the Switch/Router/DCD in say 5 years only the intervals need to be changed and the copper case can be kept. My understanding is that the Olympus with it's modularity is designed around this very idea (as is the Extreme - to maybe a somewhat lesser extent).

This would be both eco- as well as budget-friendly.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Emile,

I'd like to add (but's it probably been that idea from the beginning) that also / especially the "Top Tier" line of products using the elaborate and costly copper cases, can be upgraded in the future. So should Taiko come up with say a better version (= internals) for the Switch/Router/DCD in say 5 years only the intervals need to be changed and the copper case can be kept. My understanding is that the Olympus with it's modularity is designed around this very idea (as is the Extreme - to maybe a somewhat lesser extent).

This would be both eco- as well as budget-friendly.

Yes, absolutely. With all the effort we put into those, I’d have trouble sleeping if we just discarded them.

 

[joet]

Just to be clear, it started recently (after applying last week’s update)?

Yes.

 

[dminches]

Yes.

Interestingly, I was getting the same error and play stoppage for a while and then it just stopped happening. I wonder if it will start up again with the new update.

 

[fbhifi]

Interestingly, I was getting the same error and play stoppage for a while and then it just stopped happening. I wonder if it will start up again with the new update.

Ditto.

 

[John T]

Interestingly, I was getting the same error and play stoppage for a while and then it just stopped happening. I wonder if it will start up again with the new update.

Yep same with me. After the update it has seemed to stop happening with me too...