Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[CKKeung]

Hi @SwissTom ,

There’s quite a bit more to it than that.

Let me start with explaining why power consumption rises with increases in sample rate.

Saving power is a critical part of today’s high performance processors. The more power they can save, the higher the clock frequencies they can reach, for longer durations.

Higher sampling frequencies translate to higher data transmission rates which lowers the CPU’s ability to save power, decreasing performance and increasing temperatures, causing the CPU to start throttling.

Now understandably the thought may cross your mind how can one of the fastest CPUs you can buy today run into throttling while performing such a simple task as music playback.

That is caused by how we utilise the system. I probably mentioned before XDMI is 75% software, 25% hardware. The way we transfer / process music is extremely inefficient from a computing POV. It is however very favourable for sound quality, and I’m going to leave it at that…

Now let’s take a look at what happens if we increase sample rates from a DAC perspective. If you closely examine the datasheet of the Rohm DAC chip we use, a few things may catch your attention.

Noise figures are negatively impacted, THD+N drops from 115dB at 44.1KHz to 105dB at 768 KHz for example. BCLK frequency doubles when sampling rate doubles, so do several types of noise, like phase noise. Current draw (power consumption) on the digital supplies doubles.

Now we have another aspect of the Olympus system design coming into play, which is the battery power supply. The output noise of the BMS/BPS is lower than even the lowest noise regulator you can design.

This changes things a bit as where you would normally expect the regulator output to be lower noise then the power rails which power it, and although increasing the current load does increase noise, this relatively matters less.

But now we have regulators increasing noise, the noise is actually completely dominated BY the regulator noise, and now all of a sudden doubling load makes quite a large difference.

I hope this provides you with a different perspective, the other side of the coin if you will, on some detrimental effects higher sampling rates can have on performance. This affects every part of digital playback, source, transport, interface and DAC. This then needs to be offset by a potential benefit of that higher sample rate, if that’s actually really there is a discussion for some other time.

As, again, XDMI is 75% software, it will most definitely evolve there, there is a very long to-do list on that alone, naturally you can expect things to change, performance will very likely increase, so will functionality.

Then we have the daughter boards as well, the same thing applies there, after redesigning the source, and now the interface, perhaps we should take a fresh look at how DACs are designed at some point in the future.

Thanks for the enlightening info!

I would like to ask : Is Taiko developing a XDMI dac card with xlr analog outputs?
If yes, how's the progress?

Many Olympus fans in Hong Kong are looking forwards to a xlr version of the dac card.

Many thanks!

 

[MOTU]

Then we have the daughter boards as well, the same thing applies there, after redesigning the source, and now the interface, perhaps we should take a fresh look at how DACs are designed at some point in the future.

Please do! Can't wait.

 

[cykin]

Thanks for the enlightening info!

I would like to ask : Is Taiko developing a XDMI dac card with xlr analog outputs?
If yes, how's the progress?

Many Olympus fans in Hong Kong are looking forwards to a xlr version of the dac card.

Many thanks!

I hope I can get the xlr version before shipping (although still a long waiting ...)

 

[Kris]

Thanks for the enlightening info!

I would like to ask : Is Taiko developing a XDMI dac card with xlr analog outputs?
If yes, how's the progress?

Many Olympus fans in Hong Kong are looking forwards to a xlr version of the dac card.

Many thanks!

They are developing it.
The theoretical issue was double the noise in comparison to RCA.
I am sure they will find a way to make it happen and to limit the noise to the current RCA levels.

Not sure what is a progress.
I am also waiting for XLR analog.

The current way around this is to use preamps with ability to make a single ended signal balanced.

 

[CKKeung]

They are developing it.
The theoretical issue was double the noise in comparison to RCA.
I am sure they will find a way to make it happen and to limit the noise to the current RCA levels.

Not sure what is a progress.
I am also waiting for XLR analog.

The current way around this is to use preamps with ability to make a single ended signal balanced.

Hope that Emile/Taiko can tell us the progress.

 

[Kris]

Hope that Emile/Taiko can tell us the progress.

In general I am very optimistic .
Here we have to be very realistic as
They had a significant issues with staff and Olympus builds that were delayed.

Hopefully everything is back on track and some key people are free to keep the XLR analog ( with Volume control) development wheels moving.

 

[Alex G]

Refresh your browser.

 

[kevn]

Thanks very much, Wil for revisiting this.

I've been letting my Olympus play silently for the most part with my amp off to get some hours on the XDMI analog card. However, I finally broke down and snuck a little listen yesterday, just to hear how things were going.

Three hours later, I can say they are going very, very well.

I already can say with confidence that the quick comparison I did between Olympus USB and Extreme USB was no contest and based on that brief trial I've already sold my USB cable without a second thought.

However, as good as Olympus USB might be, when I started listening to Olympus XDMI analog it was game over for any thoughts of using Olympus USB for anything other than file transfers, not that I have any internal storage in my Olympus.

Olympus XDMI analog is doing everything better than I ever heard from Extreme USB > dCS Vivaldi APEX + Vivaldi Clock + Cybershaft OP21 master clock. Less noise, more clarity, nuance, space, imaging, ambience, the "three Ts" -- texture, tonality and timbre, articulation. And yes, even dynamics. Basically, any parameter a person would care to name is better, sometimes shockingly so, via Olympus XDMI analog.

I don't find it hard to believe that you find better dynamics with your Aires Cerat DAC. I don't have any experience with AC DACs but I do have an AC Incito S preamp here on long term loan through the generosity of Vassil (@nenon) and I what I hear and what I gather from reading about AC products in general is that dynamics are one of AC's fortes. However, I would also take Emile up on the experiment of reversing phase just to rule that out as a confounding factor.

It could be that the money shot for me might be Olympus XDMI AES/EBU into Vivaldi APEX, an experiment I will be getting to soon. I haven't heard anything about dCS being willing to work with Taiko on XDMI, so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

In the meantime, I'd have to say based on what I'm hearing with Olympus XDMI analog that no one who has posted rave reviews so far is exaggerating in the least. I couldn't be happier.

Steve Z

Steve, I don’t think I’m the only one who is super excited and ultra impatient to know how your listening with XDMI aes/ebu into your Vivaldi stack sounds : ) - it will be the first for those wondering how a high level DAC without benefit of a direct connection ala lampizator compares with XDMI rca analogue - please don’t fall ill before that happens! ; )

- in friendship - kevin

 

[oldmustang]

Steve, I don’t think I’m the only one who is super excited and ultra impatient to know how your listening with XDMI aes/ebu into your Vivaldi stack sounds : ) - it will be the first for those wondering how a high level DAC without benefit of a direct connection ala lampizator compares with XDMI rca analogue - please don’t fall ill before that happens! ; )

- in friendship - kevin

Hi Kevin,

No worries. I plan to swap daughter cards later this morning and hopefully later today will be ready to post some preliminary impressions. Though to be fair I should play the XDMI digital for a couple of days of break-in like I did XDMI analog. . .

I won't tease you like that -- I'm very curious to hear how it sounds, too!

More soon,

Steve Z

 

[cat6man]

Hi Kevin,

No worries. I plan to swap daughter cards later this morning and hopefully later today will be ready to post some preliminary impressions. Though to be fair I should play the XDMI digital for a couple of days of break-in like I did XDMI analog. . .

I won't tease you like that -- I'm very curious to hear how it sounds, too!

More soon,

Steve Z

if it is as good as reported, you should have your own personal Phil zone!

 

[kevn]

Hi Kevin,

No worries. I plan to swap daughter cards later this morning and hopefully later today will be ready to post some preliminary impressions. Though to be fair I should play the XDMI digital for a couple of days of break-in like I did XDMI analog. . .

I won't tease you like that -- I'm very curious to hear how it sounds, too!

More soon,

Steve Z

Thank you, thank you, thank you! : ))))) - kevin

 

[oldmustang]

This is only preliminary and I intend to listen to XDMI digital daughter card more this evening and tomorrow, since I have less than 12 hours on the digital daughter card while the analog card has close to ten times that total. I want to give XDMI digital, or perhaps I should say, I want to give the Vivaldi a fair shot before I make any decisions

That said XDMI digital has my Vivaldi sounding better than I have ever heard it.

But, my sense is after coming fresh off of several days of listening via XDMI analog that while there might be some things XDMI digital/Vivaldi is doing better than XDMI analog, there are also some things XDMI analog is doing better than XDMI digital/Vivaldi.

So it's close right now. And really, as it stands so far, I am very happy listening via either configuration. Which is high praise for XDMI analog considering what it is being compared to.

More to come!

Steve Z

 

[Steve Williams]

Welcome to XDMI digital Steve. For me it's as good as it gets. You will need more time on the card though

 

[kevn]

This is only preliminary and I intend to listen to XDMI digital daughter card more this evening and tomorrow, since I have less than 12 hours on the digital daughter card while the analog card has close to ten times that total. I want to give XDMI digital, or perhaps I should say, I want to give the Vivaldi a fair shot before I make any decisions

That said XDMI digital has my Vivaldi sounding better than I have ever heard it.

But, my sense is after coming fresh off of several days of listening via XDMI analog that while there might be some things XDMI digital/Vivaldi is doing better than XDMI analog, there are also some things XDMI analog is doing better than XDMI digital/Vivaldi.

So it's close right now. And really, as it stands so far, I am very happy listening via either configuration. Which is high praise for XDMI analog considering what it is being compared to.

More to come!

Steve Z

Wow - this is a terrific beginning : )

 

[Kris]

Digital things might need longer time than the analog devices to fully brake in.
So give it a fair time.
If now they are on pair I believe there is a good chance for digital to Vivaldi to be far better in a week or two from now.

 

[oldmustang]

Welcome to XDMI digital Steve. For me it's as good as it gets. You will need more time on the card though

Thank you Steve. But I'm not listening to XDMI native digital via an XDMI card in Vivaldi, like you are to your Horizon 360.

I'm not a digital maven, so I am not conversant about what form the digital stream is taking via SFDIF or AES from the XDMI digital daughter card.

Steve Z

 

[Steve Williams]

I thought via AES/EBU your sampling is limited to 24/192 and DSD 64 so yes....not native but the digital board to my ears is the best digital I have ever personally heard. With Taiko I can play all files the way they were recorded so DSD 64-512, PCM 24-192 and 24-352. That was a big thing for me when Emile first brought XDMI to all our attentions and said with Taiko we would get XDMI via aes/ebu. Most of we lamp guys reached out to Lukasz to find a way complete the handshake with an input on the Lampi side which would allow native XDMI. From what I remember Lukas made a trip to Oldenzaal and within a few months had a working model that would do that very thing. So what format comes out of the Olympus is inputted into the Lampi and played as such. Since I have heard it I can't go back to USB and my interest level in hearing the analogue board is certainly there but there is no way I can give up my Horizon 360 DAC which has the ability to play Native XDMI.. Having said that Im sure your experience is also pretty damn good even though there is a sampling limitation via AES/EBU. I have just always been of the ilk that I want to be able to play the files native. IIRC you require DUAL AES/EBU ports to be able to play native 24-192 so Im not sure if your Taiko digital card maxes out at 24-96

 

[Kris]

I thought via AES/EBU your sampling is limited to 24/192 and DSD 64 so yes....not native but the digital board to my ears is the best digital I have ever personally heard. With Taiko I can play all files the way they were recorded so DSD 64-512, PCM 24-192 and 24-352. That was a big thing for me when Emile first brought XDMI to all our attentions and said with Taiko we would get XDMI via aes/ebu. Most of we lamp guys reached out to Lukasz to find a way complete the handshake with an input on the Lampi side which would allow native XDMI. From what I remember Lukas made a trip to Oldenzaal and within a few months had a working model that would do that very thing. So what format comes out of the Olympus is inputted into the Lampi and played as such. Since I have heard it I can't go back to USB and my interest level in hearing the analogue board is certainly there but there is no way I can give up my Horizon 360 DAC which has the ability to play Native XDMI.. Having said that Im sure your experience is also pretty damn good even though there is a sampling limitation via AES/EBU. I have just always been of the ilk that I want to be able to play the files native. IIRC you require DUAL AES/EBU ports to be able to play native 24-192 so Im not sure if your Taiko digital card maxes out at 24-96

Steve. Slow down !
Horizon current name is 360.
You are missing 10 degrees in your sentence !

 

[kevn]

Hi Emile/ray-dude and all, from ray’s detailed and thorough overview of the Olympus and its use of power, my limited understanding is that sound file processing rate and size noise limits the most profound effects of XDMI via RCA analogue past a point, that being 2f or 4f, depending on specificities of context - my sophomoric question is….does this only apply to XDMI RCA analogue, or does it also apply to XDMI native, XDMI aes/ebu or more so one or the other? Since there should presumably be less processing with XDMI native? Or perhaps still so, but to a lesser degree?

Thanking ahead for your thoughts - kevin

 

[CKKeung]

Hi Emile/ray-dude and all, from ray’s detailed and thorough overview of the Olympus and its use of power, my limited understanding is that sound file processing rate and size noise limits the most profound effects of XDMI via RCA analogue past a point, that being 2f or 4f, depending on specificities of context - my sophomoric question is….does this only apply to XDMI RCA analogue, or does it also apply to XDMI native, XDMI aes/ebu or more so one or the other? Since there should presumably be less processing with XDMI native? Or perhaps still so, but to a lesser degree?

Thanking ahead for your thoughts - kevin

And Ray's report is based on his Olympus Server.
How about Olympus+Olympus I/O？