If you still spin CDs, this may be the best option.

[thomask]

Thank you.

Arion High Eff. Line Source speaker will be at Long Beach Home Theater Show coming thus June.

You may drop in their booth.

 

[the sound of Tao]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0791WDZTW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had tried above Li ion Battery pack on Mscaler.

It sounds slightly more transparent than included power supply.

But the difference was minor than I had expected.

It may be because included power supply had been connected to separate isolation transformer.

I have no plan to modify Dave.

But Dave had been connected to separate isolation transformer.

That may be the way to go.


Although I have three different pairs of BNC digital cables, it will take time to give opinion on them.

After a bit of time I have found quite good gains to be had with the m scaler by putting a range of strategies in place. I started with mechanical and power isolation (Stillpoints and Shunyata Triton and Typhon). Then moved on to shielding and upgrading the wire and connector from the stock supply to the m scaler. There is a definite subtle greyness that becomes obvious when you can get that resolved and you start to hear what the m scaler is truly capable of.

One of the things I originally felt was that the m scaler delivered in terms of timbre and timing especially making the sound in some ways closer to reality and generally being more musical and so making listening to music simply more engaging... but the m scaler didn’t do some of the usual audiophile wish list things like building a bigger bass foundation and so in some ways it left the essential sonic signature (or probably more specifically the balance) of the dac much as is.

But upgrading the digital cables with particularly good cables (I used 1.5m lengths of wireworld Platinum Starlight reterminated with furutech BNC connectors) and then by improving the power cables plus adding good mechanical (up on footers) and power isolation and conditioning then makes all these gains more obvious... and then all of a sudden it unearthed much bigger ticket sonic improvements plus built on the units inherent musicality by adding greater solidity and also extension to the bass and a sense of even greater refinement. Images became more visceral. Timing and timbre improved further. Resolution is now more epic (it was great to begin with). The mids and top end became clearly sweeter and more refined.

Rfi is also an issue. I also went through and used Entreq wraps on every connector. This has proven a great and fairly cost effective strategy. Timbre, presence, dynamics, space making and an inky quality to the background are just some of the refinements from not letting the rfi in on both the used and unused connectors.

I will be getting in a 15 volt Vinshine linear supply but clearly given the warranty issue absolutely won’t use it on my m scaler but just use it to dry my hair with (well that’s what I’m going to tell the chord people at any rate). I find the true benefit of a great linear supply is that it allows you to put better power cables on it and put lots of resonance control devices under it and it’s with this extra care then a great linear supply like the Vinshine will then really shine (ahem while its officially drying my hair that is). Happy mscalering btw Thomas. Hope it works as well for you as it has for me. Biggest win I feel is it makes streaming redbook absolutely a very happy place.

 

[morricab]

After a bit of time I have found quite good gains to be had with the m scaler by putting a range of strategies in place. I started with mechanical and power isolation (Stillpoints and Shunyata Triton and Typhon). Then moved on to shielding and upgrading the wire and connector from the stock supply to the m scaler. There is a definite subtle greyness that becomes obvious when you can get that resolved and you start to hear what the m scaler is truly capable of.

One of the things I originally felt was that the m scaler delivered in terms of timbre and timing especially making the sound in some ways closer to reality and generally being more musical and so making listening to music simply more engaging... but the m scaler didn’t do some of the usual audiophile wish list things like building a bigger bass foundation and so in some ways it left the essential sonic signature (or probably more specifically the balance) of the dac much as is.

But upgrading the digital cables with particularly good cables (I used 1.5m lengths of wireworld Platinum Starlight reterminated with furutech BNC connectors) and then by improving the power cables plus adding good mechanical (up on footers) and power isolation and conditioning then makes all these gains more obvious... and then all of a sudden it unearthed much bigger ticket sonic improvements plus built on the units inherent musicality by adding greater solidity and also extension to the bass and a sense of even greater refinement. Images became more visceral. Timing and timbre improved further. Resolution is now more epic (it was great to begin with). The mids and top end became clearly sweeter and more refined.

Rfi is also an issue. I also went through and used Entreq wraps on every connector. This has proven a great and fairly cost effective strategy. Timbre, presence, dynamics, space making and an inky quality to the background are just some of the refinements from not letting the rfi in on both the used and unused connectors.

I will be getting in a 15 volt Vinshine linear supply but clearly given the warranty issue absolutely won’t use it on my m scaler but just use it to dry my hair with (well that’s what I’m going to tell the chord people at any rate). I find the true benefit of a great linear supply is that it allows you to put better power cables on it and put lots of resonance control devices under it and it’s with this extra care then a great linear supply like the Vinshine will then really shine (ahem while its officially drying my hair that is). Happy mscalering btw Thomas. Hope it works as well for you as it has for me. Biggest win I feel is it makes streaming redbook absolutely a very happy place.

I run my streamer/nas off a huge Li battery pack (50,000mAh Maxoak) and my Kassandra Dac off a 100 watt Monarchy Audio power regenerator. The cleaner the power the better it all sounded.

 

[spiritofmusic]

After a bit of time I have found quite good gains to be had with the m scaler by putting a range of strategies in place. I started with mechanical and power isolation (Stillpoints and Shunyata Triton and Typhon). Then moved on to shielding and upgrading the wire and connector from the stock supply to the m scaler. There is a definite subtle greyness that becomes obvious when you can get that resolved and you start to hear what the m scaler is truly capable of.

One of the things I originally felt was that the m scaler delivered in terms of timbre and timing especially making the sound in some ways closer to reality and generally being more musical and so making listening to music simply more engaging... but the m scaler didn’t do some of the usual audiophile wish list things like building a bigger bass foundation and so in some ways it left the essential sonic signature (or probably more specifically the balance) of the dac much as is.

But upgrading the digital cables with particularly good cables (I used 1.5m lengths of wireworld Platinum Starlight reterminated with furutech BNC connectors) and then by improving the power cables plus adding good mechanical (up on footers) and power isolation and conditioning then makes all these gains more obvious... and then all of a sudden it unearthed much bigger ticket sonic improvements plus built on the units inherent musicality by adding greater solidity and also extension to the bass and a sense of even greater refinement. Images became more visceral. Timing and timbre improved further. Resolution is now more epic (it was great to begin with). The mids and top end became clearly sweeter and more refined.

Rfi is also an issue. I also went through and used Entreq wraps on every connector. This has proven a great and fairly cost effective strategy. Timbre, presence, dynamics, space making and an inky quality to the background are just some of the refinements from not letting the rfi in on both the used and unused connectors.

I will be getting in a 15 volt Vinshine linear supply but clearly given the warranty issue absolutely won’t use it on my m scaler but just use it to dry my hair with (well that’s what I’m going to tell the chord people at any rate). I find the true benefit of a great linear supply is that it allows you to put better power cables on it and put lots of resonance control devices under it and it’s with this extra care then a great linear supply like the Vinshine will then really shine (ahem while its officially drying my hair that is). Happy mscalering btw Thomas. Hope it works as well for you as it has for me. Biggest win I feel is it makes streaming redbook absolutely a very happy place.

Graham, you make a pretty compelling case for the Chord combo. The good news is that Hugo TT and Dave, thence w M Scaler, will be v easy to audition in the UK. There are 3 dealers reasonably close that I can hear these, likely on Innuos Zenith Mk3 server.

I remain a little confused re the role/influence/uptick of MScaler. Are you saying it does nothing at all to alter the tonal balance or bottom line resolution of the dac, but is like an uber series of tweaks in one package (like the effects of pwr cord, fuse, dedicated line clean power - kinda like a jumbo vitamin shot to the sound)?

Of course by then tweaking the MScaler, more loveliness ensues?

What is the real world situation w the risk of aftermkt LPS to the Chord units? Is there a real risk of blowing the dac or MScaler if you choose poorly?

 

[thomask]

After a bit of time I have found quite good gains to be had with the m scaler by putting a range of strategies in place. I started with mechanical and power isolation (Stillpoints and Shunyata Triton and Typhon). Then moved on to shielding and upgrading the wire and connector from the stock supply to the m scaler. There is a definite subtle greyness that becomes obvious when you can get that resolved and you start to hear what the m scaler is truly capable of.

One of the things I originally felt was that the m scaler delivered in terms of timbre and timing especially making the sound in some ways closer to reality and generally being more musical and so making listening to music simply more engaging... but the m scaler didn’t do some of the usual audiophile wish list things like building a bigger bass foundation and so in some ways it left the essential sonic signature (or probably more specifically the balance) of the dac much as is.

But upgrading the digital cables with particularly good cables (I used 1.5m lengths of wireworld Platinum Starlight reterminated with furutech BNC connectors) and then by improving the power cables plus adding good mechanical (up on footers) and power isolation and conditioning then makes all these gains more obvious... and then all of a sudden it unearthed much bigger ticket sonic improvements plus built on the units inherent musicality by adding greater solidity and also extension to the bass and a sense of even greater refinement. Images became more visceral. Timing and timbre improved further. Resolution is now more epic (it was great to begin with). The mids and top end became clearly sweeter and more refined.

Rfi is also an issue. I also went through and used Entreq wraps on every connector. This has proven a great and fairly cost effective strategy. Timbre, presence, dynamics, space making and an inky quality to the background are just some of the refinements from not letting the rfi in on both the used and unused connectors.

I will be getting in a 15 volt Vinshine linear supply but clearly given the warranty issue absolutely won’t use it on my m scaler but just use it to dry my hair with (well that’s what I’m going to tell the chord people at any rate). I find the true benefit of a great linear supply is that it allows you to put better power cables on it and put lots of resonance control devices under it and it’s with this extra care then a great linear supply like the Vinshine will then really shine (ahem while its officially drying my hair that is). Happy mscalering btw Thomas. Hope it works as well for you as it has for me. Biggest win I feel is it makes streaming redbook absolutely a very happy place.

Thanks for your kind input.

After I placed 20 years old BDR cones under M scaler, my system sounds more sharp and fast.

I turned down tweeter level of plasma tweeter( active plasma tweeter has a rotating level adjuster) not to make overall sound too bright.

I have 3 sets of different BNC digital cables to connect from Mscaler to Dave.

I will keep doing experiment with it.

 

[Lee]

I was very impressed with the Gryphon Ethos demo at Axpona. I would love to audition that piece.

 

[thomask]

Thomas, please do. I'm v interested in Chord, more the Hugo TT over the Dave, w MScaler as a subsequent upgrade. It seems that Hugo TT w MScaler is the sweetspot over Dave.

After playing Dave and Mscaler for 10 hours in my system, I am getting its sound signature.

EMMlab Dac2 has more bass slam and fuller sound with musicality.

Dave and Mscaler give very tight and fast bass with lot of sharp details.

It has very wide and transparent soundstage.

But it could sound too analytical.

I can understand why some people including CK does not like it.

I do not think Dave will go along with your Zu speaker very well.

EMMlab Dac will work better with your speaker.



There is no one best Dac for everyone.

Some people favor Lampi Dac over MSB Select II.

I had listened to both Pacific and MSB Select II.

Although I was impressed with Pacific, I still prefer MSB Select II to Pacific on details and timber.

It depends on system and personal taste.

The best thing is to audition those Dacs at your home.

 

[CKKeung]

Tha

After playing Dave and Mscaler for 10 hours in my system, I am getting its sound signature.

EMMlab Dac2 has more bass slam and fuller sound with musicality.

Dave and Mscaler give very tight and fast bass with lot of sharp details.

It has very wide and transparent soundstage.

But it could sound too analytical.

I can understand why some people including CK does not like it.

I do not think Dave will go along with your Zu speaker very well.

EMMlab Dac will work better with your speaker.



There is no one best Dac for everyone.

Some people favor Lampi Dac over MSB Select II.

I had listened to both Pacific and MSB Select II.

Although I was impressed with Pacific, I still prefer MSB Select II to Pacific on details and timber.

It depends on system and personal taste.

The best thing is to audition those Dacs at your home.

Thanks Thomask!
Good sharing!
I embrace diversity and can accept EmmLab, CH Precision, Lampizator and MSB but Chord is not my cup of tea.

 

[spiritofmusic]

After playing Dave and Mscaler for 10 hours in my system, I am getting its sound signature.

EMMlab Dac2 has more bass slam and fuller sound with musicality.

Dave and Mscaler give very tight and fast bass with lot of sharp details.

It has very wide and transparent soundstage.

But it could sound too analytical.

I can understand why some people including CK does not like it.

I do not think Dave will go along with your Zu speaker very well.

EMMlab Dac will work better with your speaker.



There is no one best Dac for everyone.

Some people favor Lampi Dac over MSB Select II.

I had listened to both Pacific and MSB Select II.

Although I was impressed with Pacific, I still prefer MSB Select II to Pacific on details and timber.

It depends on system and personal taste.

The best thing is to audition those Dacs at your home.

Thomask, I have to say I've listened to a few dacs recently, and I am really sensitive to those that border on uber detail/leading edge/fwdness.

I can appreciate their appeal, but I prefer music more to wash over me as in a live performance, and that means less analytical and more density/tone/timbre.

I suspect an r2r dac, maybe w tubes, is my destination (MDHT Orchid or Lab12 SE both tubed, Holo Springs Kitsune Edn not tubed). Maybe even Aqua La Voce or Terminator Denafrips.

Will give Chord a fair crack of the whip when the time comes.

 

[thomask]

Thomask, I have to say I've listened to a few dacs recently, and I am really sensitive to those that border on uber detail/leading edge/fwdness.

I can appreciate their appeal, but I prefer music more to wash over me as in a live performance, and that means less analytical and more density/tone/timbre.

I suspect an r2r dac, maybe w tubes, is my destination (MDHT Orchid or Lab12 SE both tubed, Holo Springs Kitsune Edn not tubed).

Will give Chord a fair crack of the whip when the time comes.

MDHT Orchid cost just 1K$ so it would be good starting point for musical sound.

In my system, Dave and Mscaler is like transparent windows with no barrier to sharp details.

I enjoy that right now but I may be fed up with it in one or two years.

 

[morricab]

Thomask, I have to say I've listened to a few dacs recently, and I am really sensitive to those that border on uber detail/leading edge/fwdness.

I can appreciate their appeal, but I prefer music more to wash over me as in a live performance, and that means less analytical and more density/tone/timbre.

I suspect an r2r dac, maybe w tubes, is my destination (MDHT Orchid or Lab12 SE both tubed, Holo Springs Kitsune Edn not tubed). Maybe even Aqua La Voce or Terminator Denafrips.

Will give Chord a fair crack of the whip when the time comes.

Give the new Aries Cerat Helene Dac a try. The little sister to Kassandra Dac...fits the R2R tube Dac concept to a T.

 

[morricab]

MDHT Orchid cost just 1K$ so it would be good starting point for musical sound.

In my system, Dave and Mscaler is like transparent windows with no barrier to sharp details.

I enjoy that right now but I may be fed up with it in one or two years.

Based on your profile and posts, I am quite surprised you went towards that kind of sound...

 

[thomask]

Based on your profile and posts, I am quite surprised you went towards that kind of sound...

Without SET amp and plasma tweeter, Dave and Mscaler would sound too bright to hear.

But I can enjoy such super details and clear window right now.

I am pretty sure that I can not live with Dave and Mscaler for my life.

Let us see how long it will last in my system.

Maybe in a year or two, I may give the new Aries Cerat Helene Dac a try.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Graham, you make a pretty compelling case for the Chord combo. The good news is that Hugo TT and Dave, thence w M Scaler, will be v easy to audition in the UK. There are 3 dealers reasonably close that I can hear these, likely on Innuos Zenith Mk3 server.

I remain a little confused re the role/influence/uptick of MScaler. Are you saying it does nothing at all to alter the tonal balance or bottom line resolution of the dac, but is like an uber series of tweaks in one package (like the effects of pwr cord, fuse, dedicated line clean power - kinda like a jumbo vitamin shot to the sound)?

Of course by then tweaking the MScaler, more loveliness ensues?

What is the real world situation w the risk of aftermkt LPS to the Chord units? Is there a real risk of blowing the dac or MScaler if you choose poorly?

Marc the TT2 is the more organic bass rich sounding dac of the two while absolute detail is more the Dave thing which is why I suggested you audition the TT2.

The m scaler does the most essential and more valuable thing of making the instruments sound more right and reveals the musical nuance of the players... it makes the organisation of the music more immediately accessible more in the way music is.

The comments on balance etc refers essentially to flaws in the stock power and digital cables. They (like any poor unshielded cable in a digital application) also highlight the issue of RFI in a digital environment that would especially make the detail of the Dave even more overt.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Graham, you're speaking to the converted when it comes to applying tweaks and optimisation to wring the last iota of performance out of gear. I've spent as much on my balanced power, dedicated lines, fuses, cables, grounding, supports/vibration isolation, and room/acoustics treatments, as I have on all the core components I've bought over more than two decades. And I would similarly maxx out any server/dac combination I'll end up with, whether Chord/Innuos, or some other combo.

 

[CKKeung]

Give the new Aries Cerat Helene Dac a try. The little sister to Kassandra Dac...fits the R2R tube Dac concept to a T.

Hello morricab,
Where can we find more info on AC Helene DAC?
Thanks.

 

[morricab]

Hello morricab,
Where can we find more info on AC Helene DAC?
Thanks.

It was debuted at Munich, so it is not yet up on the AC website. What I know is the following:
It uses 8xAD1865 DACs per channel (4 chips, 2 DACs per chip)
It has transformer IV conversion
It uses the E280F tube in transformer coupled output stage
The power supply is tube rectified (5AR4 I believe).
It’s smaller than Kassandra in all dimensions but is still not real small (about 40Kg).
It is non over/up sampling (no digital filter)
Doesn’t handle DSD native
Handles all PCM native
No MQA
USB, coax and AES inputs
Double clocked (AC proprietary jitter reduction)
That gives a basic understanding of the features.

Difference to Kassandra Ref is ; half the number of DAC chips (4 vs. 8), tube power rectifier (Kassandra is with SS diodes), slightly smaller PSU...there may be others but those are the basics.

 

[thomask]

I had listened to "The Trinity Session" by Cowboy Junkies for more than 50 times since 1990.

On 1990, my system consisted of Apogee Duetta Signature, Krell KSA 150, Passive Attenuator, California Audio Lab CD player.

This albums sounded spooky with transparent background on 1990.

Today, I played this album again with Lansche4.1, Line Magnetic 508 SET int amp, Chord Dave and M scaler with upsampling to 768 KHz.

It sounds as transparent as back on 1990, but with more details, wider and deeper soundstage.


I am happy with Chord Dave and M scaler after 20 hours of listening.

It may sound hot or analytical in bright system.

But with 4 separate isolation transformers, SET amplifier and plasma tweeter,, Chord Dave and M scaler sounds perfect not being too analytical.


I had auditioned MSB Select II, Premier, Discrete, Total Dac 6, Chord Dave and M scaler, Lampiziator Pacific, Metronome Kalista, Trinity, Aqua Formula XHD during last 6 months in the shops (not my home).


My guess is that In my system, only MSB Select II will sound significantly better than Chord Dave and M scaler in organic details, soundstage width and depth.

Trinity, Lampiziator Pacific, Metronome Kalista could be slightly better than Chord Dave and M scaler in my system but not worth upgrade from Chord Dave and M scaler.

Chord Dave without upsampling sounds just ordinary.

But with upsampler, its soundstage width, depth and transparency, details are extraordinary.


I think I can live happy with Chord Dave and M scaler for next 3 years or more.


If some innovative Dac with reasonable price of under 50K$ come out and crush all existing products in the future, then I will upgrade to it.


Thomas

 

[bonzo75]

You didn't really audition them. Get a used Golden gate at 10k USD and roll the valves. Or audition Silbatone

 

[thomask]

You didn't really audition them. Get a used Golden gate at 10k USD and roll the valves. Or audition Silbatone

Thanks for your recommendation.

But i am not interested in adding Tube Dac since my system have enough fullness.

It could be too much of good things.

I have 41 years of audio history so I can guess the sound from auditioning at the shop.

Thus I made a right choice of selecting Chord Dave and Mscaler within the budget of 20K$..