How large should my rears be?

[Dr_jitsu]

Hi all. Vanns is having a 30% off sale and I am thinking of upgrading my rears.

Right now I have Klipsch RF-7' mains, rc 64 center, and RF-82 wides. My living room opens to my kitchen and hallway, and the divider is close behind my listening area. I have some Klipsch RF-52's shoehorned in that area with some RB-51's mounted way up high and not equidistant from my listening area. The 52's are sort of a rear surround.

My front stage is powered by an Emo XPA-5 and my Onkyo TX NR 3008 my rears, so I have the power to drive larger rears. I also have 6 CHT 18 inch sealed subs.

So, should I upgrade the rears? What do the experts (and non experts if they have a thoughtful opinion) think?

Thanks.

 

[Steve williams]

Hi all. Vanns is having a 30% off sale and I am thinking of upgrading my rears.

Right now I have Klipsch RF-7' mains, rc 64 center, and RF-82 wides. My living room opens to my kitchen and hallway, and the divider is close behind my listening area. I have some Klipsch RF-52's shoehorned in that area with some RB-51's mounted way up high and not equidistant from my listening area. The 52's are sort of a rear surround.

My front stage is powered by an Emo XPA-5 and my Onkyo TX NR 3008 my rears, so I have the power to drive larger rears. I also have 6 CHT 18 inch sealed subs.

So, should I upgrade the rears? What do the experts (and non experts if they have a thoughtful opinion) think?

Thanks.

what are you lacking in the system now that an upgrade will benefit.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I could maybe use a bit more oomph in my rears.

 

[Gregadd]

I could maybe use a bit more oomph in my rears.

OK stop you're killing me.

 

[Gregadd]

Seriously, if I were looking for more oopmh, I would start with power. I don't currently have home theatre. My thing is the main job of the rear speakers is to provide directional clues. Also subs provide oomph. Many here, think multiple subs (more than two) is the way to go

 

[LL21]

Hi Dr J,

By "oomph in your ears", i am guessing that you mean upper bass/lower mid snap/punch. You've got 6 subs and 7' Klipschs...it cannot possibly be as much a lack of absolute bass, as much as it [might] be a lack of instantaneous punch. I am [also guessing] you assume it is from the back speakers because they are smaller...i am not convinced of this. Sometimes speakers which have this speed/punch sound like they've got more bass than speakers which actually have more bass, but do not deliver impact/punch.

I concur that you may get this punch from upgrading your front-speaker amplification. I do not know your amp...specs look okay from the website and imagine your Klipchs are pretty efficient as most usually are...but nevertheless, you may wish to try an amp with serious muscle, say, a Krell?

 

[Gregadd]

Or the Theta Dreadnaught.

 

[LL21]

Or a Bryston, though the older ones and a klipsh might be a bit much in the treble region...

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi Dr J,

By "oomph in your ears", i am guessing that you mean upper bass/lower mid snap/punch. You've got 6 subs and 7' Klipschs...it cannot possibly be as much a lack of absolute bass, as much as it [might] be a lack of instantaneous punch. I am [also guessing] you assume it is from the back speakers because they are smaller...i am not convinced of this. Sometimes speakers which have this speed/punch sound like they've got more bass than speakers which actually have more bass, but do not deliver impact/punch.

I concur that you may get this punch from upgrading your front-speaker amplification. I do not know your amp...specs look okay from the website and imagine your Klipchs are pretty efficient as most usually are...but nevertheless, you may wish to try an amp with serious muscle, say, a Krell?

Or the Theta Dreadnaught.

Or a Bryston, though the older ones and a klipsh might be a bit much in the treble region...

Nice choices, but at 3-4-5 times the price of an Emotiva, maybe a bit unrealistic.

 

[RBFC]

I could maybe use a bit more oomph in my rears.

My first thought was he was into hip-hop!

Power and EQ seem to be the factors involved, considering the speaker complement. Also, you might want to check your speaker levels with a SPL meter. Crossover frequency can affect your perceived "oomph" too, so play around with your settings a bit.

Lee

 

[rblnr]

I think your rears are plenty large (no insult intended ) There typically isn't a ton of bass info going to the rears anyway. You can look at an amp w/more grunt, though Kiipsch's are pretty efficient.

I'd start with your settings. Crossover higher than you are now so more of the low frequency info gets thrown to your subs. In addition to having larger drivers handle the bass, it will relieve your amp of some of the burden too.

Check levels as suggested above as well. Maybe you just need to increase the volume relative to the other speakers. As a vet of many film mixes and one who knows his taste, I usually wind up raising the rears levels on movies, but it's a case by case thing. This doesn't necessarily create more rear oomph, but definitely more rear presence. Remix to taste.

I use small sides and rears, and feel no oomph deficit, so again, I don't think it's your speakers. And again, roughly 20% of all multichannel info goes to the rears, and little of that is deep bass anyway. As noted above, it's the mid and higher more directional frequencies.

 

[ted_b]

I think your rears are plenty large (no insult intended ) There typically isn't a ton of bass info going to the rears anyway. You can look at an amp w/more grunt, though Kiipsch's are pretty efficient.



I use small sides and rears, and feel no oomph deficit, so again, I don't think it's your speakers. And again, roughly 20% of all multichannel info goes to the rears, and little of that is deep bass anyway. As noted above, it's the mid and higher more directional frequencies.

This is just not true unless all you are dealing with is home theater (movie soundtracks, lossly dolby and dts soundtracks). Any decent multichannel music (SACD, DVD-Audio, etc) will have FULL RANGE to all channels (except, of course, the LFE channel, as defined). Any good multichannel listening environment should have as its ultimate goal: five identical speakers as your non-LFE transducers. My setup is both a dedicated 5.1 hirez music listening environment, and a 7.1 movie one (see my room thread). In the movie environment the sides (90 degrees) and rears (135 degrees) are somewhat frequency limited dipoles, and limited bass management done via the SSP. However, in my 5.1 hirez multichannel environment my surround speakers (set at about 120 degrees) are full range equivalents of my front soundstage.

I'm not saying everyone should have this kind of setup, but it's a goal, and to say that surround speakers get little, if any, bass frequencies is just not accurate information since the advent of multichannel music.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

You guys are hilarious....of course looking back I suppose I really set myself up, . Oomph was probably a poor word choice (in more ways than 1). I have 2 18 inch subs behind my seating area powered by an SA 1000 amp so the oomph is there already I suppose.

I believe directional cues is the more accurate choice the fairly small 52's and rb 51's (a small bookshelf speaker) are powered by my 3008. I think the onk benched at close to 80-90 watts up to 7 channels, so I am pretty sure it is enough for just those four speakers.

 

[LL21]

Hi Dr. J

Just to make doubly sure, when you say directional cues, are you saying the soundtrack does not present with proper sense of where individual sound effects are coming from?

 

[Gregadd]

If you have a Bose outlet center near you go and have a listen. They exagerate the surround sound effects.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Hi Dr. J

Just to make doubly sure, when you say directional cues, are you saying the soundtrack does not present with proper sense of where individual sound effects are coming from?

To illustrate, I played the Beach scene beginning to Saving Private Ryan the other day, and it seemed I could have a bit more pronounced gunfire behind me. It is not really a major problem, but was just thinking that moving up from the 52's to the 82's could give my more articulation.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

If you have a Bose outlet center near you go and have a listen. They exagerate the surround sound effects.

Umm, going to have to take a rain check on that one.

 

[es347]

Most rears in the USA are way TOO large but not to worry. The FDA is all over this one.

 

[Gregadd]

Umm, going to have to take a rain check on that one.

It's not easy to live down a reputation.

 

[RBFC]

In a dedicated listening room with sufficient budget, identically-matched speakers all around is the ideal. Most realistic listening spaces are multi-use, so smaller surrounds are typical. In this case, optimizing the bass management settings and the channel levels will provide the best movie surround experience from this limited size setup. Of course, a matched speaker complement is capable of giving a great movie experience as well.....

Lee