Sorry! i somehow lost a zero whilest typing, that was supposed to be 50mm!!
This is from the Website:
High range 1x1” 1x1” Beryllium
Middle range 1x2” Beryllium
hORNS Universum 3 MKII
- Thread starter Argonaut
- Start date
Sorry! i somehow lost a zero whilest typing, that was supposed to be 50mm!!
This is from the Website:
High range 1x1” 1x1” Beryllium
Middle range 1x2” Beryllium
Sorry to keep having to repost my own quotes but they seem to be hard to read
The midrange is a 50mm and the tweeter a smaller version of the same driver, both are custom made for hORNS.
Again i think the lower senisitivity is a good thing as Fidelity and ultra high senisitivity dont necessarily go hand in hand.
Thanks, and sorry about that. I like Beryllium drivers, I bet they sound great. The issue with the low sensitivity is small SET amps are not appropriate anymore, but I'd bet a big 211/845/GM70 SET would be amazing with them.
This is the point where someone with actual first hand experience with these speakers needs to start commenting.
Probably depends on the definition of "small set amps" but the evaluation i read they ended up using a unison simply italy 12 watt/ channel single ended EL 34 (measured 3.3 watt (!) into 4 ohms).
The bass is active so it will show as a very benign load....
Entirely the combination I would be considering Dave, were the hORNZ to tick boxes.
Rather easy on the eye in white finish as above, and not a plank of wood or Ply in sight!
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I've heard these speakers and they are excellent, I use Horns.pl speakers myself, the model is the Mummy and again a really good speaker for the money at less than £4k new in the UK, if I had the room then I'd upgrade to the Universum without any hesitation, did you get to hear them yet Bonzo?
I like to revitalize this thread, as I am expecting the arrival of my hORNS Universum III very soon.
During the Munich High End fair I had several opportunities to listen to the Universum speakers. They definitely have developed over the time, so for example the shape of the midrange Horn has changed.
The current Version of the hORNS Universum III has the well known 2 Beryllium drivers per channel, custom made for hORNS
(for 2000,-eur / each driver purchase cost to hORNS)
plus the 15' down firing subs in a special designed tube, like you may have seen it similar as an idea out of the Nautilus speakers concept.
The efficiency of the horn part is 106 db, the subwoofer has 100db.
There are separate binding posts to connect, so ideal would be 2 sets of stereo amp with a volume, like you find it with the most Japanese SET tube amps
(for example Air Tight, Kondo)
hORNS provide for the Universum III connection box with resistors to accommodate a single stereo amplification, you can switch different set ups to customize the speaker tonal balance.
If you order the speakers new, as I did, you can choose nearly every colour and even more... (for a premium price)
It took me some weeks to think about the best colour (you can even choose mat, shiny, structured....)
Than I saw a Porsche Boxter driving in a nice "modern" brown, with a brown roof (structured vinyl) and brown leather interior, so I thought, that this might work as well on the Universum III speakers.
So I ordered the speakers in the following specification:
- the 2 horns in brown, structured paint (hORNS recommend for better sound)
- Bass tubes in Brown leather
- frame in Black
- other painted parts in brown shiny
This will become a very unique and personal Universum III and I hope that the speakers will fit my room nicely.
hORNS will ship the speakers end of next week to my home, the German Distributor and and a German hORNS dealer will be aside to assist, as the speakers are heavy.
The experiment to combine high power tube gear with high efficiency speakers will continue, currently my CAT JL 3 Statement are firing the 97db Zingali....
Next weekend (hopefully) I can write some more.
At the moment the speakers are getting some hours burn in and last quality checks, so they sent me a first picture.
During the Munich High End fair I had several opportunities to listen to the Universum speakers. They definitely have developed over the time, so for example the shape of the midrange Horn has changed.
The current Version of the hORNS Universum III has the well known 2 Beryllium drivers per channel, custom made for hORNS
(for 2000,-eur / each driver purchase cost to hORNS)
plus the 15' down firing subs in a special designed tube, like you may have seen it similar as an idea out of the Nautilus speakers concept.
The efficiency of the horn part is 106 db, the subwoofer has 100db.
There are separate binding posts to connect, so ideal would be 2 sets of stereo amp with a volume, like you find it with the most Japanese SET tube amps
(for example Air Tight, Kondo)
hORNS provide for the Universum III connection box with resistors to accommodate a single stereo amplification, you can switch different set ups to customize the speaker tonal balance.
If you order the speakers new, as I did, you can choose nearly every colour and even more... (for a premium price)
It took me some weeks to think about the best colour (you can even choose mat, shiny, structured....)
Than I saw a Porsche Boxter driving in a nice "modern" brown, with a brown roof (structured vinyl) and brown leather interior, so I thought, that this might work as well on the Universum III speakers.
So I ordered the speakers in the following specification:
- the 2 horns in brown, structured paint (hORNS recommend for better sound)
- Bass tubes in Brown leather
- frame in Black
- other painted parts in brown shiny
This will become a very unique and personal Universum III and I hope that the speakers will fit my room nicely.
hORNS will ship the speakers end of next week to my home, the German Distributor and and a German hORNS dealer will be aside to assist, as the speakers are heavy.
The experiment to combine high power tube gear with high efficiency speakers will continue, currently my CAT JL 3 Statement are firing the 97db Zingali....
Next weekend (hopefully) I can write some more.
At the moment the speakers are getting some hours burn in and last quality checks, so they sent me a first picture.
If not, then there is an obvious need to create oneWelcome the the horn club of WBF (if there is one)
Shakti, you’re moving out the Zingalis for these. What was the thinking on these, when I chatted w you, you didn’t convey anything other than totall happiness w the Zings.
The Zingali are very nice speakers, they are a little bit like the Harbeth of Horn Speakers. They are friendly and not aggressive. The Universum III is more a Diva, can sound more punchy and hard. At the moment I like to have something different, something which looks even more exotic, than the Zingali.
Friday was the big day!, the hORNS Universum III finally arrived.
Helping hands from the German Distributor and a German hORNS Dealer plus some audiophile friends were there to carry the speakers out of the polish truck with the 2 speakers. Something like 130 kg per speaker incl packaging material.
Out of the truck, we realized, that around 200 screws were used to protect the speakers, so it took a while to bring the speakers into their new home.
The first sound , placed on the Zingali position, were not that promising, but the distributor has warned be before, that the beryllium speakers will take some burn in time, and that mainly the adjustable junction box between MH and Bass will take up to 300h to perform in a satisfying way.
My room has 2 doors in opposite to the speakers, as I listen mostly with open doors, the speakers will see partially up to 20m, so deep bass response is good. Exotic Bass systems , like the down firing Universum III react on this mostly with a louder bass than normal. The adjustable junction box has a standard set up of -6db for MH section. But my set up sees -2 to -1 dB, so a lot more bass response that normal.
Fresh from the factory, the speakers were not very dynamic and resolution were missing, so I decided to drive the Universum III just with a BiWi Speakercable without the junction box.
Immediately all the dynamic, punch and resolution were back. Even with a light bass I could remember, that this is the performance I heard in Munich 2 years ago.
I like to trust the Distributor, that the junction box will sonically disappear after 300h of usage, so I connected the junction bos to a burn in device to speed this up.
But without the resistors in the junction box to balance bass and horn section I have big fun. I like to hear to listen to "lean" and precise speakers, actually the balance is similar to my YG. Many records are recorded on small speakers and do have too much bass. So with my actual Universum III man records are in Balance.
The possibility to adjust the speaker is very nice , in some days I will try the junction box again.
When I see the speakers in front of my, I love the colour match with my room very much, for my taste the speakers are sooo nice
In the next days I will fine tune the positioning , as the speakers do behave differently than the Zingali or YG, they like to stay on a different place in the room.
Finding the best position is a part of the hobby as well , so I am looking forward to it!
Regarding efficiency I have to say, the they SPL (on same amp volume) is very much the same than the Zingali, which had 97db.
So I assume, that even the Universum III has not more than 97db. The 15' bass need some control, so I would not recommend a 2A3 or similar tube amp. I see with robust 15 to 20 watt the limit. Listening to the bass, I even would recommend SET solid state like First watt from Pass.
My CAT Statement has a damping factor of around 100, which controls the bass nicely , so the bass is controlled and fast.
So far I like the resolution and precision of the Beryllium drivers. This drivers are making a big difference to other makes like Avantgarde.
My dream would be a japanese (like Kondo or Air Tight) 211 for the Bass and a 300b or 2A3 for the MH.
nearly all japanese tube amps are adjustable , so no junction box needed and the bass (in all rooms) adjusted to the level of MH .
Helping hands from the German Distributor and a German hORNS Dealer plus some audiophile friends were there to carry the speakers out of the polish truck with the 2 speakers. Something like 130 kg per speaker incl packaging material.
Out of the truck, we realized, that around 200 screws were used to protect the speakers, so it took a while to bring the speakers into their new home.
The first sound , placed on the Zingali position, were not that promising, but the distributor has warned be before, that the beryllium speakers will take some burn in time, and that mainly the adjustable junction box between MH and Bass will take up to 300h to perform in a satisfying way.
My room has 2 doors in opposite to the speakers, as I listen mostly with open doors, the speakers will see partially up to 20m, so deep bass response is good. Exotic Bass systems , like the down firing Universum III react on this mostly with a louder bass than normal. The adjustable junction box has a standard set up of -6db for MH section. But my set up sees -2 to -1 dB, so a lot more bass response that normal.
Fresh from the factory, the speakers were not very dynamic and resolution were missing, so I decided to drive the Universum III just with a BiWi Speakercable without the junction box.
Immediately all the dynamic, punch and resolution were back. Even with a light bass I could remember, that this is the performance I heard in Munich 2 years ago.
I like to trust the Distributor, that the junction box will sonically disappear after 300h of usage, so I connected the junction bos to a burn in device to speed this up.
But without the resistors in the junction box to balance bass and horn section I have big fun. I like to hear to listen to "lean" and precise speakers, actually the balance is similar to my YG. Many records are recorded on small speakers and do have too much bass. So with my actual Universum III man records are in Balance.
The possibility to adjust the speaker is very nice , in some days I will try the junction box again.
When I see the speakers in front of my, I love the colour match with my room very much, for my taste the speakers are sooo nice
In the next days I will fine tune the positioning , as the speakers do behave differently than the Zingali or YG, they like to stay on a different place in the room.
Finding the best position is a part of the hobby as well , so I am looking forward to it!
Regarding efficiency I have to say, the they SPL (on same amp volume) is very much the same than the Zingali, which had 97db.
So I assume, that even the Universum III has not more than 97db. The 15' bass need some control, so I would not recommend a 2A3 or similar tube amp. I see with robust 15 to 20 watt the limit. Listening to the bass, I even would recommend SET solid state like First watt from Pass.
My CAT Statement has a damping factor of around 100, which controls the bass nicely , so the bass is controlled and fast.
So far I like the resolution and precision of the Beryllium drivers. This drivers are making a big difference to other makes like Avantgarde.
My dream would be a japanese (like Kondo or Air Tight) 211 for the Bass and a 300b or 2A3 for the MH.
nearly all japanese tube amps are adjustable , so no junction box needed and the bass (in all rooms) adjusted to the level of MH .
Glad you've got them as discussed over the meal at Spatenhaus.
This is what I thought when I heard them last. I liked them. And yours do look good in that room/finish.
Not sure if we were using the junction boxes. I suspect we were, but hey I don't know.
This is what I thought when I heard them last. I liked them. And yours do look good in that room/finish.
Not sure if we were using the junction boxes. I suspect we were, but hey I don't know.
thank you for the link, was a nice reading. The unknown turntable is a J Sikora "initial" from a nice polish turntable brand. Just thinking to get the "reference" Turntable from them. They were in Munich on Demo with Horns.
The Universum on the pictures are older models with a different shape of the midrange horn. At this times the Universum was sold with solid state amps for the bass or with switchable junction box , that the universum can be used just with one stereo amp.
Reading your description, that the Universum you heard was more laid back than Avantgarde , not so attacking the listener, I would assume, that the switchable box was used, as this is exactly what I am hearing with my junction box. Putting this box out of the way brings back all Horn specific attack and speed.
I am very much interested about the performance of the speaker, mainly the junction box, after the burn in period.
At the moment I am thinking to go back to hORNs original design, using a separate solid state subwoofer amp.
(means I have already ordered 2 solid state subwoofer amps, full analog, no class D...)
Mostly I like the first ideas of engineers , before marketing thinking have given the product an update...
The Universum on the pictures are older models with a different shape of the midrange horn. At this times the Universum was sold with solid state amps for the bass or with switchable junction box , that the universum can be used just with one stereo amp.
Reading your description, that the Universum you heard was more laid back than Avantgarde , not so attacking the listener, I would assume, that the switchable box was used, as this is exactly what I am hearing with my junction box. Putting this box out of the way brings back all Horn specific attack and speed.
I am very much interested about the performance of the speaker, mainly the junction box, after the burn in period.
At the moment I am thinking to go back to hORNs original design, using a separate solid state subwoofer amp.
(means I have already ordered 2 solid state subwoofer amps, full analog, no class D...)
Mostly I like the first ideas of engineers , before marketing thinking have given the product an update...
Those are one of not many horn speakers I can listen to with real pleasure. Such grown up, gentle, natural sound. I wish I had big enough room for speakers like this. Congratulation shakti, I am sure you gonna enjoy them big time! Finish looks great!
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