Heavyweight amplifier showdown- Boulder 2160 v Wavac HE 833 mkII

[LL21]

Thank you for your kind words, Lloyd. And the positive reception of others on this thread, it actually really means quite a lot to me
How are you getting along with your new Mephisto?
I've thought of you a few times recently as I've enjoyed some of the latest John Digweed mixes; i would passionately recommend 'Montreal' and 'Tokyo' ?

John Digweed's Tokyo is excellent! i just saw Montreal...it is actually 8 discs across Live in Montreal and Live in Montreal - Finale! Have you heard them both?

Mephisto is amazing...enthralled with its detail and effortless control...it is my personal favorite. It has continued to reveal details and improvements as I have added SRA to the Zandens, etc. Genuinely stunning.

Look forward to reading more about your adventures in audio as they come along. While i have always enjoyed learning about new great audio...the one i am perhaps most curious about on SS is Boulder's 3000 series amps.

 

[LL21]

My impressions are that the 3060 achieves scale and clarity that no other amp (except the 3050s) I have heard approaches. I have connected it two different speakers -- Wilson XLF and YG Sonja XV -- and it did the same thing, getting greater scale and clarity, resetting my expectations for what those systems could achieve.

Awesome...genuinely awesome. I have only ever heard the 2060, and I feel highly confident that from the next-gen 2100 series to the super-leap of the 3000 series, there is a world of difference. Would love to hear. And particularly on the XLF. I presume you have seen the youtube videos by the XLF owner using 3050 monos and Vivaldi? They are some of the best sounding recordings i have come across...and while no substitute whatsoever for hearing live...they are genuinely impressive nevertheless and somehow i instinctively feel quite indicative of the promise such a combination holds.

 

[infinitely baffled]

That's just the kind of description that will fortify me through the 'saving up' long haul, Chuck

?

 

[infinitely baffled]

John Digweed's Tokyo is excellent! i just saw Montreal...it is actually 8 discs across Live in Montreal and Live in Montreal - Finale! Have you heard them both?

Mephisto is amazing...enthralled with its detail and effortless control...it is my personal favorite. It has continued to reveal details and improvements as I have added SRA to the Zandens, etc. Genuinely stunning.

Look forward to reading more about your adventures in audio as they come along. While i have always enjoyed learning about new great audio...the one i am perhaps most curious about on SS is Boulder's 3000 series amps.

I recently acquired the Montreal Finale, you might say I'm working my way through it, but I'm absolutely smitten with the first three discs of Montreal.
Nice ambient beginning, gradually picks up until by disc three it has morphed into the sublime and just sounds huuuuge

Regarding ongoing sonic adventures, it was tempting to keep posting on this thread, but it felt like a bit of a letdown to be posting about cartridges and cabling when I'd promised Wavac versus Boulder....

 

[infinitely baffled]

Happy Sunday everyone ?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hey Gavin, it's not happening, but the music is there, so life goes on. Chill.

However Boulder v Wavac MARGINALLY beats my IsoAcoustics Gaias v Arya Audio RevOPods trial LOL.

 

[chuck]

I don't think you need to worry about the Wavac/Boulder comparison. I did an Audio Research 160M vs. 3060 comparison with some friends. These comparisons seem to all be very similar and the ARC 160M v. 3060 was a more dramatic example. The tube guys were horrified by the 3060's enormous soundstage and hearing everything on the recording -- like the Emperor in Amadeus, "too many notes."

 

[LL21]

I recently acquired the Montreal Finale, you might say I'm working my way through it, but I'm absolutely smitten with the first three discs of Montreal.
Nice ambient beginning, gradually picks up until by disc three it has morphed into the sublime and just sounds huuuuge

Regarding ongoing sonic adventures, it was tempting to keep posting on this thread, but it felt like a bit of a letdown to be posting about cartridges and cabling when I'd promised Wavac versus Boulder....

Awesome! Looking forward to hearing it soon when it arrives! Meanwhile, I just picked up some music i heard literally in the street in Camden, London...and we asked the girl playing it. I think she was genuinely into the fact that we would come up to her to ask...

Sampa the Great 'Blue Boss' single
Also picked up her 'Birds and the Bee9' Album and 'Energy' single which came out a few months ago.

Not house, but hip hop/rap but very lyrical...

 

[Crispy]

very interesting comparison to me.

6 months ago I did a very similar comparison in my room; the dart 458's verses the Lamm ML3's then later also the big VAC Statement 450's.....all with the dart preamp.

comparing this situation to mine; gav has amps that are more extreme in their solid state-ness and tubey-ness than the 458's and ML3's. so the choices will be even more divergent. and the Wavac's will have closer to adequate power (with considerable measured distortion) on gav's speakers than the ML3's might have on my speakers. (not an issue for the big VAC's).

then there is the Wavac preamp which could shift things in various ways.

my thread went on for 1200+ posts. I'd say this one could also be very entertaining; although the 'Lamm Nation' fanbase (said with much love) was quite passionate on many aspects. not sure Wavac will get the same degree of (unconditional) faith, not that it's not deserving (at one point I came very close to buying a set of HE-833 Mk2's myself).

Well, well, well. Hi Mike, I was at your house...from Definitive Audio. Interesting reading your posts. C

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well, well, well. Hi Mike, I was at your house...from Definitive Audio. Interesting reading your posts. C

hi Crispy, welcome to What's Best Forum. thanks.

not exactly sure who you are from Definitive Audio as i know a few people. in any case, you are welcome to PM me to reveal that if you would rather stay anonymous.

 

[howiebrou]

That's just the kind of description that will fortify me through the 'saving up' long haul, Chuck

?

By the way, if you’re still interested in auditioning some other big amps i am demoing a pair of Analog Domain Apollos at home (@4000watts @8ohms) and recently had a pair of Goldmund 3300 (all 496lbs worth) for a week. Interesting amps both of them with unlimitless power.

 

[LL21]

By the way, if you’re still interested in auditioning some other big amps i am demoing a pair of Analog Domain Apollos at home (@4000watts @8ohms) and recently had a pair of Goldmund 3300 (all 496lbs worth) for a week. Interesting amps both of them with unlimitless power.

Look forward to reading about how you like them! I recently heard the Boulder 2160s...but in a system I did not know well. Certainly seemed to power some relatively inefficient speakers pretty effortlessly (YG Sonjas).

 

[howiebrou]

Look forward to reading about how you like them! I recently heard the Boulder 2160s...but in a system I did not know well. Certainly seemed to power some relatively inefficient speakers pretty effortlessly (YG Sonjas).

They are quite different, actually very different. The Analog Domain sounds very powerful and the sound is quite a bit warmer than the Goldmund. Bear in mind this is with the Goldmund 22H preamp. The Goldmund 3300 makes the whole system super clear. You can hear everything on the recording, stuff i never heard before even on recordings i know very well. You seem to hear more than in real life which is why the Goldmund went back. It is too clean, too resolving and seemed to detract from the actual music. It's more fatigue inducing than the AD, not in the Esoteric sense, just that you get tired quicker. If you flip between the two the AD actually sounds veiled but after a while i think you enjoy yourself more. It's a matter of taste. Oh one thing, the rca on the Goldmund is by far the preferred connector and there is a big difference. The sound is sweeter, the soundstage is more expansive and it is less fatiguing. Unfortunately i need a 9m long cable from pre-to power so rca is probably not the best idea. I got hum on a 6m pair.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Look forward to reading about how you like them! I recently heard the Boulder 2160s...but in a system I did not know well. Certainly seemed to power some relatively inefficient speakers pretty effortlessly (YG Sonjas).

Did you enjoy the combination?
I hear the YG designer likes Boulder amps

 

[infinitely baffled]

They are quite different, actually very different. The Analog Domain sounds very powerful and the sound is quite a bit warmer than the Goldmund. Bear in mind this is with the Goldmund 22H preamp. The Goldmund 3300 makes the whole system super clear. You can hear everything on the recording, stuff i never heard before even on recordings i know very well. You seem to hear more than in real life which is why the Goldmund went back. It is too clean, too resolving and seemed to detract from the actual music. It's more fatigue inducing than the AD, not in the Esoteric sense, just that you get tired quicker. If you flip between the two the AD actually sounds veiled but after a while i think you enjoy yourself more. It's a matter of taste. Oh one thing, the rca on the Goldmund is by far the preferred connector and there is a big difference. The sound is sweeter, the soundstage is more expansive and it is less fatiguing. Unfortunately i need a 9m long cable from pre-to power so rca is probably not the best idea. I got hum on a 6m pair.

I had the smaller Analogue Domain amps here for a bit. I liked what i heard, but they lacked the scale my 2060 delivers so effectively. So the bigger ones are probably more comparable.
Even so, i found the Boulder just a little more seductive....but the AD's also had that quality that made you want to hear more. I found them slightly more neutral, and the Boulder a tad more musically involving

 

[asiufy]

Did you enjoy the combination?
I hear the YG designer likes Boulder amps

They have D'Agostino at the factory. They might be working something out with Boulder now, though, seeing as they're practically neighbours, and Boulder has shown with YG before (at CES).

 

[howiebrou]

I had the smaller Analogue Domain amps here for a bit. I liked what i heard, but they lacked the scale my 2060 delivers so effectively. So the bigger ones are probably more comparable.
Even so, i found the Boulder just a little more seductive....but the AD's also had that quality that made you want to hear more. I found them slightly more neutral, and the Boulder a tad more musically involving

I have only heard the Apollos at length. A pity AD doesn't do a preamp...

 

[infinitely baffled]

They have D'Agostino at the factory. They might be working something out with Boulder now, though, seeing as they're practically neighbours, and Boulder has shown with YG before (at CES).

Wotcha Alex, how are you doing?

 

[asiufy]

Wotcha Alex, how are you doing?

Hey! I'm fine! How are things over there?
Still hasn't taken the plunge towards new speakers, uh?

 

[infinitely baffled]

Came really close a couple of times...never so close as with your Evolution Acoustics though. I'd wondered why things had gone quiet between us....only later realised it coincided with my changing my email address
#facepalm
Had a couple of very near misses with a pair of Nola Concert GRG, but couldn't click with the vendor. Every now and then i will receive some enquiries about my Stellas and that gets me thinking about replacements, but given how much i enjoy them i don't really build up a head of steam to do anything

I recently viewed a property with an attached barn that had 'Apogee Grands' written all over it- narrower than my current room with a lot more height- so to quote a well known imbecile, 'we'll have to see what happens'?