Sooner rather than later we will be delivering an Aqua Formula demo unit to Barry. Barry has great ears and I value his comments and observations way over mine !
GG, Nagra HD, Aqua Formula, and SGM server.
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Sooner rather than later we will be delivering an Aqua Formula demo unit to Barry. Barry has great ears and I value his comments and observations way over mine !
You are too kind! Your thoughts are more than valid as well
Barry is a great guy, and even though the (his) horns sound is not for all, or even the majority, I've been present over the last 24 months for the evolution of his system, from highly engaging and involving, but ultimately a tad dark and reticent (when he was running his Audio Aero cdp/dac and earlier Sablon Corona cables), to his current sound, truly transformed into more forthright, textured, nuanced and dynamic (now running the SGM/Dac8 and newest Sablon Reservas cbls incl the exemplary data-only USB)
His SGM/Dac8 digital front end is such a step up twds an analog or at least parallel-to-analog sensibility, that this died-in-the-wool vinylhead can truly kick back and enjoy things wholeheartedly, and I've only experienced that w few other digital rigs like my Eera Tentation cdp, Ypsilon and Origine cdp's
Now, if the Formula can bring the tonal density of the GG or the Nagra to the table and include the strengths of the Dac8, this will be a truly winning combination
Barry is a great guy, and even though the (his) horns sound is not for all, or even the majority, I've been present over the last 24 months for the evolution of his system, from highly engaging and involving, but ultimately a tad dark and reticent (when he was running his Audio Aero cdp/dac and earlier Sablon Corona cables), to his current sound, truly transformed into more forthright, textured, nuanced and dynamic (now running the SGM/Dac8 and newest Sablon Reservas cbls incl the exemplary data-only USB)
His SGM/Dac8 digital front end is such a step up twds an analog or at least parallel-to-analog sensibility, that this died-in-the-wool vinylhead can truly kick back and enjoy things wholeheartedly, and I've only experienced that w few other digital rigs like my Eera Tentation cdp, Ypsilon and Origine cdp's
Now, if the Formula can bring the tonal density of the GG or the Nagra to the table and include the strengths of the Dac8, this will be a truly winning combination
this is hard for me because unlike Lps there are so many files you play with a server, and navigating in Roon to go back and identifying tracks is very difficult with the flipping of pages you must do. but at least it is a start.
in addition to what you see here, we did use some popular demo tracks over and over; Keith don't Go, Fields of Gold, Peel Me a Grape, RCA LS-Scherazade, etc. etc.
these are the top 25 files from Roon (not sure I agree with what Roon is telling us here) played in the last week (I did re-map all these files last night......did that change things? might have). likely just scratches the surface. I will try to edit this post as I can to detail these files. lots of these are compilations. and I cannot do a screen capture from an I-pad that I know of so I have to use my phone to take a picture. doing the best I can.
there are 10,474 albums on the Roon list. and 126,000 tracks.
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listening to the Formula right now (with the SGM and Herzan) and I consider it's image density different than either the GG or Nagra HD. but I'd say I prefer it and the way it fits into the overall presentation. the GG gives you a Glamorous type viewpoint with a bit of heavy lipstick and blush (Sophia Loren) (depending on the tubes chosen), the Nagra HD is more smooth and liquid (Ingrid Bergman), and the Formula is more natural and uninhibited (Grace Kelly).
I get plenty of tonal weight and timbral nuance with vocals, cello, piano, etc. with the Formula. and it captures the ambient field on another level beyond those others with it's lower noise floor. that ambient bed of air adds to the listen ability and believability. those other 2 are not deficient in this area, but not as good. the Formula is a space machine. and the Formula has focus and texture on another level too (Herzan helps here).
I can enjoy each approach, but likely prefer lean and mean and nothing slowed down or ornate mostly. but it's as dense as it ought to be. in my system too much is actually too much. it's baggage that get's in the way when things get cooking at lift off.
all three can do spooky reality moments in their own way, but the Formula has that little more 'they are right there, right now' factor that seems constant. intoxicating. the Formula might demand more from a system to allow it to thrive (no place to hide).
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looking at the Aqua Formula dac, sitting on the Symposium Svelt Shelf, which sits on the dart pre, which sits on the Herzan......all appears just fine.
but, upon extended listening I'm hearing just this very small amount of glare and smearing here and there, mostly on vocals, and leading edges of horns and stringed instruments. just something not quite music, and not quite the Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement like refinement.
examining how the Formula is sitting on the Symposium Svelt Shelf, it has 4 tapered composite soft footers.....maybe 3/4" long. I don't like 4 of anything typically as it's luck for it to define a plane. and I cannot determine whether there is any degree of lack of solidity. hummmm?
so I wandered over to my footer box in my cabinet and pulled out 3 BDR (Black Diamond Racing) solid carbon fiber cones. and they happen to be maybe 1/3rd inch longer than those footers. put the dart into mute, and slip those puppies one in front two in back. raises the Formula a 1/4th-1/3rd of an inch.
unmute.
the glare and smear is gone. no tonal shifts or lack of flow. just music now. nice. play 25-30 cuts and no doubt that did the trick. the sound is more granularly right. nothing out of place. that little bit more analog like.
why does digital sound digital?
keep pushing and listening.
but, upon extended listening I'm hearing just this very small amount of glare and smearing here and there, mostly on vocals, and leading edges of horns and stringed instruments. just something not quite music, and not quite the Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement like refinement.
examining how the Formula is sitting on the Symposium Svelt Shelf, it has 4 tapered composite soft footers.....maybe 3/4" long. I don't like 4 of anything typically as it's luck for it to define a plane. and I cannot determine whether there is any degree of lack of solidity. hummmm?
so I wandered over to my footer box in my cabinet and pulled out 3 BDR (Black Diamond Racing) solid carbon fiber cones. and they happen to be maybe 1/3rd inch longer than those footers. put the dart into mute, and slip those puppies one in front two in back. raises the Formula a 1/4th-1/3rd of an inch.
unmute.
the glare and smear is gone. no tonal shifts or lack of flow. just music now. nice. play 25-30 cuts and no doubt that did the trick. the sound is more granularly right. nothing out of place. that little bit more analog like.
why does digital sound digital?
keep pushing and listening.
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Hi Phil,
You need to hear what HQ Player can do with upsampling and converting Redbook tracks to DSD 128, for the Nagra HD to play.
The internal conversion done by the converter is good, but the computational horsepower which HQ Player brings to the task is an order of magnitude greater.
About the running hours, I did not check the tube timer. My guess the unit is at around 200 hours
How much are these differences in presentation btwn dacs, minutiae, significant, personal preferences etc?
Eg I really didn't get on w the GG at Bill's on the end of the SGM in comparison w the T&A Dac8
In my mind the GG tone was superior to the Dac8, but just had no PRaT, and felt v Hifi ish
The Dac8 seemed to disappear much more on the SGM
Bill thought it was much more an even affair, and remains a massive GG fan
Ked thought it was no contest, the GG stomped all over the Dac8
Now, my preferences were more strongly held on poorer recorded material eg Rush 2112, Queen 1, than better recorded stuff eg choice classical cuts
I've yet to hear a digital component powered w tubes that doesn't have issues w PRaT, and the GG experience that day reinforces my thoughts
SGM is a component that has really shaken my "analog is king" mentality to the core, and its performance at 512 and HQP w the Dac8 and the Sablon data only USB is the only rig that I could contemplate swapping record listening to
I'm intrigued as to what the Formula can bring
PS despite my last comment, at the end of the GG v Dac8 session on SGM at Bill's, we put on some Nirvana on his Kuzma tt, and it stomped all over digital
Analog still is king, but no doubt SGM is an impatient prince
Eg I really didn't get on w the GG at Bill's on the end of the SGM in comparison w the T&A Dac8
In my mind the GG tone was superior to the Dac8, but just had no PRaT, and felt v Hifi ish
The Dac8 seemed to disappear much more on the SGM
Bill thought it was much more an even affair, and remains a massive GG fan
Ked thought it was no contest, the GG stomped all over the Dac8
Now, my preferences were more strongly held on poorer recorded material eg Rush 2112, Queen 1, than better recorded stuff eg choice classical cuts
I've yet to hear a digital component powered w tubes that doesn't have issues w PRaT, and the GG experience that day reinforces my thoughts
SGM is a component that has really shaken my "analog is king" mentality to the core, and its performance at 512 and HQP w the Dac8 and the Sablon data only USB is the only rig that I could contemplate swapping record listening to
I'm intrigued as to what the Formula can bring
PS despite my last comment, at the end of the GG v Dac8 session on SGM at Bill's, we put on some Nirvana on his Kuzma tt, and it stomped all over digital
Analog still is king, but no doubt SGM is an impatient prince
Marc, let's be clear on what happened. You heard the GG for around 20 - 25 mins, where Bill had mistakenly left his 2 quid attenuators he was experimenting with to reduce the 242 tube distortion. You did not really listen to the T+A there and you had to leave, barely 3 mins in.
Both Bill and I don't think the T+A is anywhere analog sounding, it's a good dac for the money and you had decided to buy it before you came there anyway. You had been asked to stay back for a proper compare, but you left. You are always welcome to go to audio lounge with your T+A and I can get my Lampi there, they also have the Nagra and the SME 30/12
Both Bill and I don't think the T+A is anywhere analog sounding, it's a good dac for the money and you had decided to buy it before you came there anyway. You had been asked to stay back for a proper compare, but you left. You are always welcome to go to audio lounge with your T+A and I can get my Lampi there, they also have the Nagra and the SME 30/12
If things weren't right w the GG, you really should have said so there and then mid demo
Only at the end of the demo was it noticed things weren't optimal
I have no opinion on that, being unfamiliar w the GG
The long and short of it was I listened to at least 20 mins, and that's enough for me to draw a conclusion
Give me a bit of credit for a nuanced critique, I've stated the GG beat the Dac8 on tone, but on verve it couldn't compete w it
You loved the GG presentation all the way, it must be quite something if it beat the Dac8 all ends up while sub optimal
And I know Bill's comments v well, we've spoken many times about the demo in private
And I went to the demo really up for possibilities of GG, all you read most of the time is how no dac can live w it
How meh was it to me that it couldn't convey the message in Rush and Queen at all coherently
Only at the end of the demo was it noticed things weren't optimal
I have no opinion on that, being unfamiliar w the GG
The long and short of it was I listened to at least 20 mins, and that's enough for me to draw a conclusion
Give me a bit of credit for a nuanced critique, I've stated the GG beat the Dac8 on tone, but on verve it couldn't compete w it
You loved the GG presentation all the way, it must be quite something if it beat the Dac8 all ends up while sub optimal
And I know Bill's comments v well, we've spoken many times about the demo in private
And I went to the demo really up for possibilities of GG, all you read most of the time is how no dac can live w it
How meh was it to me that it couldn't convey the message in Rush and Queen at all coherently
What makes you think I've got or was getting a Dac8?
The SGM was on the cards back then before spending on my audio room spiralled
But the combination remains on my radar
Just not the GG
Maybe the Formula
The SGM was on the cards back then before spending on my audio room spiralled
But the combination remains on my radar
Just not the GG
Maybe the Formula
We did say, and asked you to stay back beyond your listening, but you had to leave. Bill can confirm. Yes I don't the dac 8 really like a good low cost dac, nothing more. Your demos are never demos Marc, you spend most of the time talking. It's fine if you don't want three GG. Please don't keep saying you compared after that 3 min run of dac 8 at Bill's
Yes you did, at the end of the session only
Any fault in GG should have been picked up in the first track
Now I'm outta here, I've learnt in my comms w you Ked not to keep coming back, going around in circles
Bill and I had a more nuanced discussion in private, and I'm happy w that
Any fault in GG should have been picked up in the first track
Now I'm outta here, I've learnt in my comms w you Ked not to keep coming back, going around in circles
Bill and I had a more nuanced discussion in private, and I'm happy w that
Why, it was still better. And 20 mins is not much anyway. Good for your discussion, because I know what Bill thinks about the Lampi vs the dac 8. Lower noise, sure, dac 8 as a SS dac with SGM is lower noise, but the Lampi with the his Aries beats that combo for a real analog sound
Let me get this right
You warned me off Aries as cheap sh*t, not worthy of any audiophile rig
Now you're telling me Lampi plus Aries beats a killer SOTA server plus highly competent dac?
Do you know how preposterous you sound?
You warned me off Aries as cheap sh*t, not worthy of any audiophile rig
Now you're telling me Lampi plus Aries beats a killer SOTA server plus highly competent dac?
Do you know how preposterous you sound?
Cant speak for the other stuff, but the Aries has had near universal acclaim for the huge increase in SQ since the last 2 firmware upgrades. It now institutes MEMORY playback and people speculate that the case of the huge jump in SQ.
No. Aries is not as good as Aurender. At least it wasn't before upgrades, and the was a could of years ago, I have no idea recently. But Aries plus Lampi better than dac 8 plus SGM. There is just so much dac 8 can do.
i see web of Aqua Formula,
the company is one and half hour by car from my home.
I and my friends never listen this company,also because we listen 90% vinyl,and also in 3 italian forum nobody spoke about this company.
Strange,i will check
Regards
Gianluigi
the company is one and half hour by car from my home.
I and my friends never listen this company,also because we listen 90% vinyl,and also in 3 italian forum nobody spoke about this company.
Strange,i will check
Regards
Gianluigi
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