GG, Nagra HD, Aqua Formula, and SGM server.

[bonzo75]

You obv didn't see his tt sitting to the right
Sinatra on it sounded better than his prev Aries-based dsd
Edward of SGM was beyond pleased how things sounded w SGM installed there, he's said so on these pages

I know he has a TT. I have no idea he focuses on getting his analog right. From what I gathered he is a digital guy.

 

[spiritofmusic]

He is a digital guy
But gets a more than acceptably good sound from his tt
Can we move on now?

 

[microstrip]

Well, most of my compares - and maybe I am filtering the people who are already good analog set up guys for visits - is that I have hardly been disappointed.

Yes of course it's an opinion, I posted it so must be mine. The most exciting thing about digital is improved quality of online streaming (like Tidal, which continues to be promising), but otherwise digital is a waste of money in SQ terms, except for convenience. On the other hand, because of the lack of quality in digital one can keep spending to try and improve it to make it sound like analog - streamers, clocks, upsamplers, change cables between connecting components - and things can improve, while with analog, match it up nicely and you can get satisfaction at relatively lower costs, with the SQ far exceeding that tweaked out digital

A popular misconception - we do not make digital sound like analog. I have both tape and vinyl. There are several aspects where for me digital sounds more real - and this means "more like my own perception of reality" than analog. Any one valuating these aspects more than vinyl "goodness" will surely say digital "sounds better".

Curious that you refer to the digital accessories - vinyl is by definition a permanent spending and improvement, mostly carried in obscure conditions and places, such as our systems. Vinyl audiophiles do not want a standard Thorens or Garrard. They need specially modified models, completely disagreeing between themselves on plinths.

Again, people who optimize systems for vinyl will always prefer vinyl. And yes, we are debating parallel entities for fun. In some sense they are apples and oranges.

BTW, I weight my opinions on statistics. In order to be worth referring I consider a statistically valid number of recordings of different type along a reasonable period of time. And surely the DCS Vivaldi has forced me to re-think my old convictions.

 

[asiufy]

Of course, a vinyl/tape collection is predicated on the notion that one's taste is music is served by the medium. I have literally thousands of albums that will never see the light of day on a vinyl release, let alone one from an "audiophile" label or on a limited-release second generation 15ips.

Sometimes we build collections based on the music rather than the format, as I have. And anyway, I like what digital does and that what it does is different from vinyl. Much like I like what gin does that's different from champagne. In order to live life to its fullest, both are essential.

Truer words haven't been said in this thread
I share your goals, of listening to the music I like, in the best possible format, which, sometimes, is the ONLY available format...


cheers,
alex

 

[spiritofmusic]

Micro, I am totally w you on this
It's just downright frustrating to spend valuable time writing a post, from the PoV as a dyed in the wool vinylphile, showing the zigzagging evolution and preferences for analog over digital, digital over analog and current SOTA jostling for position to be just told, bah, well set up analog is king and that's it
Plenty would reasonably disagree
By design or by accident, I've ended up with analog and digital players that converge SQ rather than diverging
My tt rig is the most linear, fastest and leanest one yet I've owned, a direct result of adjustment to my Emm Labs CDSA SE period
This cdp started to get me listening to more digital than analog, so that my next tt had to compare to it favourably
That my tt did was a result of me listening to and rejecting quite a few well respected belt drives and settling on rim drive/air bearing arm
The heft of good analog remained, and this then inspired me to try and get a "wetter" sounding cdp than the Emm, which I achieved going to the Eera w the invaluable help of JackD201
I may be one of the only few audiophiles who tried to find a tt w attributes of the best digital, and then changed their digital to converge on a happy medium
So, for me it remains a no brainer that well set up analog always seems to steal a march on excellent digital, but I've actively tried to find what I like about digital more than analog in my various upgrades and system evolution landmarks, and incorporate that in both mediums
Looks like Mike has too in probably a different and more extravagant fashion than me

 

[wisnon]

A popular misconception - we do not make digital sound like analog. I have both tape and vinyl. There are several aspects where for me digital sounds more real - and this means "more like my own perception of reality" than analog. Any one valuating these aspects more than vinyl "goodness" will surely say digital "sounds better".

Curious that you refer to the digital accessories - vinyl is by definition a permanent spending and improvement, mostly carried in obscure conditions and places, such as our systems. Vinyl audiophiles do not want a standard Thorens or Garrard. They need specially modified models, completely disagreeing between themselves on plinths.

Again, people who optimize systems for vinyl will always prefer vinyl. And yes, we are debating parallel entities for fun. In some sense they are apples and oranges.

BTW, I weight my opinions on statistics. In order to be worth referring I consider a statistically valid number of recordings of different type along a reasonable period of time. And surely the DCS Vivaldi has forced me to re-think my old convictions.

Why does no one talk about the COST of setting up a decent LP collection from scratch? That is a HUGE part of the cost equation.

 

[bonzo75]

Why does no one talk about the COST of setting up a decent LP collection from scratch? That is a HUGE part of the cost equation.

This started with Mike is your digital now sounding equal to your analog...we were discussing what was sounding better, not what is more convenient. And there is a crossover point at which your costs in digital go beyond set up and record costs. Also, not everyone here has analog set up costs

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Why does no one talk about the COST of setting up a decent LP collection from scratch? That is a HUGE part of the cost equation.

totally agree. when people ask me about getting into vinyl I mostly talk them out of it. it's a life style type decision with considerable implications. especially as good as the best digital is right now. OTOH when they hear what great vinyl can do, many times logic means little.

 

[wisnon]

totally agree. when people ask me about getting into vinyl I mostly talk them out of it. it's a life style type decision with considerable implications. especially as good as the best digital is right now. OTOH when they hear what great vinyl can do, many times logic means little.

True Mike.

When entering the rabbit hole, its wise to have an idea how deep it goes...you may do it anyway but its nice to know the depth of that particular folly! LoL

Now, if one lucks out and inherits a treasure trove or wins the lottery at a flea market sale, then everything changes.
Some here may know the late MusikMike from Audio Asylum. I was privileged to spend a day with him a few years back in central PA.
He had a record collection numbering about 10K and many/most were out of print. Now, I don't know if his kids were audiophiles, but that inheritance would be stupendous.
I miss his immense audio wisdom, he was a gentleman and a scholar!

 

[spiritofmusic]

If I was a young and reasonably affluent audiophile, not part of the original cultural phenomenon that was listening to, and collecting lps during the golden age of recording and up until the early 2000s, I don't think I would bother to start an Lp collection from scratch, where $20/month gets you a reasonably unlimited record collection on Tidal, and $20-30k gets you a SOTA source front end of SGM w Dac8, GG or Formula (take yr pick depending on sonic preference)
You can then tweak the hell out of it w different USBs, ics and PCs, fuses, active isolation etc etc
I would undoubtedly look at Lp collecting as anachronistic
Whether a few yrs' immersion in this would be upended by exposure to a top top tt setup, is hard to say
Certainly this has never happened in reverse to me and other vinylphile ie a lifelong devotion to lps being turned on it's head by exposure to a digital front end that has usurped Lp listening long term (other than those periods of time a new cdp temporarily outshone a current tt)
For me, a certain dichotomy has appeared because I'm finally sold on the concept of Tidal, and undoubtedly the SGM/Dac8 or Formula source can only make the most of this voyage, and has an outside chance of making me commit to digital more than analog over a long period for the first time *
*=unless I get active isolation to make my analog even harder to turn away from LOL

 

[microstrip]

Let me introduce myself, I'm Emile Bok from The Netherlands. I'm responsible for a fair bit of the technical implementation of the SGM2015 and I signed up here to answer some of the more technical questions.

Re: Windows 10 as Operating System and it's safety in use.

The Windows 10 installation on the SGM2015 is far from standard.(...)

As for safety of an internet connected device. The SGM2015 was designed to function as a music server, not as a machine to browse the more obscure parts of the internet, read your email and click malicious links. It has functionality to be accessed remotely from your local subnet for changing settings you would typically only do during the initial setup, and a function for remote support over the internet which has to be manually enabled and is only valid for a single session. Next to that it's accessible by Roon Remote and there's a facility you can copy your music files to for local playback should you so desire. All other functionality is gone/disabled. All additional services which would run on a normal Windows system which most definitely need regular updates and protection are simply not there.

Thanks for such comprehensive answer. But as far as I could understand Roon runs in the SGM, as well as Tidal. Doesn't it imply that the SGM is on a network and as such susceptible to hackers?

 

[853guy]

True Mike.

When entering the rabbit hole, its wise to have an idea how deep it goes...you may do it anyway but its nice to know the depth of that particular folly! LoL

Now, if one lucks out and inherits a treasure trove or wins the lottery at a flea market sale, then everything changes.
Some here may know the late MusikMike from Audio Asylum. I was privileged to spend a day with him a few years back in central PA.
He had a record collection numbering about 10K and many/most were out of print. Now, I don't know if his kids were audiophiles, but that inheritance would be stupendous.
I miss his immense audio wisdom, he was a gentleman and a scholar!

We have three children.

When we die, they will inherit the artifacts we've collected over the years. The books that have provided thousands of years of collective wisdom, history and insight; the modest art that's defined and redefined our notions of aesthetics; the photographs that have documented our lives and the lives of others before us; and also, the music that's given us a sense of eternity, bound right now in compositions of intention formed in pitch and dynamics over time.

And in what format? They'll be holding discs of polyvinyl chloride with cover art and production credits and liner notes, and due to the increasing chances that vinyl will continue to find a wider audience beyond the narrow reach of audiophilia if reports are to be believed, perhaps one day pass them on to our grandchildren. I can say with a high degree of certainty, none of our children will be inheriting a hard drive full of files, nor a subscription to a streaming service - if indeed, either of those things are even 'things' when the time comes.

 

[bonzo75]

If they are not interested, please adopt me.

 

[853guy]

If they are not interested, please adopt me.

 

[wisnon]

We have three children.

When we die, they will inherit the artifacts we've collected over the years. The books that have provided thousands of years of collective wisdom, history and insight; the modest art that's defined and redefined our notions of aesthetics; the photographs that have documented our lives and the lives of others before us; and also, the music that's given us a sense of eternity, bound right now in compositions of intention formed in pitch and dynamics over time.

And in what format? They'll be holding discs of polyvinyl chloride with cover art and production credits and liner notes, and due to the increasing chances that vinyl will continue to find a wider audience beyond the narrow reach of audiophilia if reports are to be believed, perhaps one day pass them on to our grandchildren. I can say with a high degree of certainty, none of our children will be inheriting a hard drive full of files, nor a subscription to a streaming service - if indeed, either of those things are even 'things' when the time comes.

Why not...most of my family pictures are on Hard drives as well as my music. As to whether my only child will want this, its up to her.

Many a vinyl collection has been dumped in the garbage after the owner died...or sold for pennies each.

We all know the joe of the audiophiles biggest fear if they die...LoL

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Why not...most of my family pictures are on Hard drives as well as my music. As to whether my only child will want this, its up to her.

Many a vinyl collection has been dumped in the garbage after the owner died...or sold for pennies each.

We all know the joe of the audiophiles biggest fear if they die...LoL

I'm in at least one friend's will as a designated advising person to value the audio gear and media for the estate.

as far as myself; both of my kids (and my wife) understand the value of my stuff....it would not be dumped.

 

[wisnon]

I'm in at least one friend's will as a designated advising person to value the audio gear and media for the estate.

as far as myself; both of my kids (and my wife) understand the value of my stuff....it would not be dumped.

So I take it you are familiar with the audiophile greatest fear joke, right? LoL

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks for such comprehensive answer. But as far as I could understand Roon runs in the SGM, as well as Tidal. Doesn't it imply that the SGM is on a network and as such susceptible to hackers?

You're welcome. You need active open (listening) ports to access a machine over a network. Those open ports need to be exploitable to gain unauthorised access. Roon (and Tidal as it's being accessed through Roon) only "listens" to the Roon Remote application running on your local network. To "hack" the SGM through Roon, Roon itself would need to be exploitable, subsequently Roon would have to be able to run remotely executable code, which it cant. Even if it could, it's behind your NAT performing router meaning it doesnt have its own internet adress. I could think of a way, one would need to hack Roon HQ and push an update to all Roon devices in the world containing malicious code. This is a very unlikely scenario though.
Basically you, as a system user, have to open the door to a hacker, by accessing the trap they laid out for you. They wont even know you exist until you tell them you do and invite them to your home.

 

[BruceD]

So I take it you are familiar with the audiophile greatest fear joke, right? LoL

Yes--

 

[Mike Lavigne]

SWMBO knows.

after 43 years I'm a full disclosure kind of guy. but I ask for forgiveness, not permission.