finally updated my system page......

[Mike Lavigne]

I think Micro had the 927 and it did not meet his expectation. I cannot speak for him or his tt. Also cannot generalize the 50 years old 927 to all sound the same. Kedar has heard three four different 927 and he told me their level of goodness varied.

OK, i see. i recall reading ddk's comments about how it's hard to know how to judge a good 927.

Anyway in my system, the music from AF1P "always organized with ease and authority." I say it sounds excitingly neat. To a certain degree possesses a digital characteristic.. the good one. In contrast my 927 is a musical machine it is free'er to form and pattern. It sounds bigger than the AF1P. The most dynamic tt I own. But it has less resolution than the AF1P. Music is bigger less precise than the AF1P. I match the 927 with the GFS because the GFS has a lesser upfront presentation, excellent resolution and hold instruments to their own. Still I find gap of differences between the two.

Kind regards,
Tang

i'll just have to see how that works out with my NVS and Saskia. even the GFS and Anna Diamond.

 

[ddk]

OK, i see. i recall reading ddk's comments about how it's hard to know how to judge a good 927.

That's true of all vintage equipment, like cars and anything else mechanical condition matters. Even with speakers I often had to buy 6-7 pairs of a model to come up with a properly working pair. I don't know what Ked has heard or hasn't, a turntable is a system made of different but almost equally important parts and in EMT's case many are still using the built in phono stage which wasn't that great to begin with and you very well that unless you live with something you don't really know it. For me the 927 is truly special and I love it as much as the AS turntables. In any case you shouldn't have any concerns with the Saskia.

david

 

[microstrip]

great to hear that the AF1P is working well in your system. 'ease' but with 'linearity' to me is the magic combination. the music does not fight the system. you get flow and energy. congrats!

do you have any feedback on comparison with the EMT 997? if you have already written about this comparison please point me to it. thanks.

i know that like me, you love your digital. has the ratio of digital to vinyl listening changed with the AF1P?

They sound very different. The EMT sounds dynamic, but does not have the resolution of the AF1P. It favors some types of music that have percussive or simple music and sounds very immediate, but in some sense "colored". I found myself searching for LPs that I imagined that could sound good in the 927 - and most times they did sound impressive. I had to listen the all the Paniagua's again!

The AF1 is a more complete turntable, as you say more in line with the sound of my DCS Vivaldi stack. If we are lucky to enjoy the type of music that is recorded with great digital expertise and have a system that can do justice to it, good digital has some aspects that are insuperable.

BTW, my EMT was in great condition, I fully measured it - rumble and wow and flutter were exceptional for an idler drive. I listened to both turntables with the SME3012 R / Sumiko Palo Santos.

 

[microstrip]

I think Micro had the 927 and it did not meet his expectation. I cannot speak for him or his tt. Also cannot generalize the 50 years old 927 to all sound the same. Kedar has heard three four different 927 and he told me their level of goodness varied. Anyway in my system, the music from AF1P "always organized with ease and authority." I say it sounds excitingly neat. To a certain degree possesses a digital characteristic.. the good one. In contrast my 927 is a musical machine it is free'er to form and pattern. It sounds bigger than the AF1P. The most dynamic tt I own. But it has less resolution than the AF1P. Music is bigger less precise than the AF1P. I match the 927 with the GFS because the GFS has a lesser upfront presentation, excellent resolution and hold instruments to their own. Still I find gap of differences between the two.

Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Tang,

Well, many people in this forum have great imagination about other people equipment and findings but we agree on some, not all the points!

My EMT 927 was in very good condition and sounded great, but IMHO the Air Force One Premium is a better musical machine - it makes me forget more about the mechanical characteristics of vinyl and more about full spectrum music.

Real music is precise - IMHO we only need imprecision to disguise system faults or excess of information, a common sin of many recordings. Curiously in my system the AF1P sounds bigger than the EMT - not bigger performers, but it has more real space.

 

[bonzo75]

The EMT has never been a nuanced TT in any system. It lacks detail within notes and on bigger orchestra, between notes.

I do not think it should be a choice for an only TT but it can be the top choice for a second TT, because certain music is just brilliant and played better than any other TT. And I am referring to Tang's here, which was the best EMT set up I heard

 

[Mike Lavigne]

this feedback on the 927 is interesting. thanks guys. i realize the various performance targets Win was aiming at. capturing the magic of the ultimate idler but also the magic of string drive high mass.

my memory of the Saskia was that it was very nuanced and detailed........delicate and textured. and very dynamic and explosive. but those are now 4-5 year old memories of relatively brief encounters. just have to wait and see how this plays out.

 

[bonzo75]

At Munich Schroeder and Schick use a lot of vintage idlers in the western electric room and they are all nuanced and detailed, but they are doing a lot of DIY on them.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, I'm convinced slate is the key here. It's random structure must be amazing at dispersing vibrations. If my tt is anything to go by, and the couple of 301s and 401s I've heard in slate plinths, slate is the magic ingredient. Similarly Simone of Audiosilente uses graphite in his plinth, to similar effect.

My slate tops out at 170kg in my setup, and the sound has no signature at all. I really believe this is a major contributor to the nuance and neutrality the Saskia is likely to show in yr room.

Now if nuance and headroom compete w NVS, will Saskia have the edge re immersion, solidity, tonal saturation and vividness? 170kg of slate is getting my tt into those realms, Saskia can only be whole orders better.

 

[Tango]

Dear Tang,

Well, many people in this forum have great imagination about other people equipment and findings but we agree on some, not all the points!

My EMT 927 was in very good condition and sounded great.

BTW, my EMT was in great condition, I fully measured it - rumble and wow and flutter were exceptional for an idler drive.

Nobody said your arsenal was not in prime condition my dear professor. No need to be defensive with a twist of sarcasm. I am no Kedar . (Sorry Ked but you two do pinch each other regularly.) I was saying about the nature of 50+ years vintage gear, not even a bit in my mind to even remotely imply to your 927.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[bonzo75]

I don't think he is being defensive nor sarcastic Tang

He is saying his EMT sounded great, but EMT > AF1p > dCS vivaldi

It does kindle my sarcasm though

 

[Mike Lavigne]

since the Saskia 2 arrived today.........i posted some pictures, and started a new thread so people searching for Saskia 2 info will find it reasonably. going forward please post Saskia related posts there. thanks.

a link;

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/saskia-model-two.28727/

in the post i announced i had purchased the Saskia......

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/finally-updated-my-system-page.28633/page-2#post-589973

...........i also mentioned i was acquiring a new cartridge, the Ortofon Anna Diamond. (i don't recall seeing any comments about that). i guess not sexy enough. well; if you got your new September Stereophile today, Michael Fremer has a review on the Anna Diamond that would have to be described as an unqualified rave.

a few comments from Mr. Fremer;

"the MC Anna Diamond is joltingly fast, clean and transparent..."

"tonally balanced and neutrally sounding as any i've heard"

"it unravels detail with the best Lyra's"

"and where appropriate can sound warm, sweet, and fully fleshed out harmonically".

my Ortofon MC Anna Diamond will arrive next Tuesday or Wednesday. i'm excited to hear it mounted on the Durand Tosca and both mounted on the Saskia.

 

[gian60]

SORRY OT
But from today i have a thing same like Mike and that Mike loves
Bought new in a shop of a friend

 

[spiritofmusic]

God DAMN!!!!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Immigrant Song and Achilles' Last Stand on Saskia should shift the US Continental Shelf.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

SORRY OT
But from today i have a thing same like Mike and that Mike loves
Bought new in a shop of a friend

LZ Classic 45’s are ALWAYS on topic.

 

[spiritofmusic]

We LZ fans could really learn to hate you both LOL.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Immigrant Song and Achilles' Last Stand on Saskia should shift the US Continental Shelf.

“In My Time Of Dying” seems to have its share of tectonic effects too.

I know Bonzo and jazdoc sure like it.

 

[bonzo75]

“In My Time Of Dying” seems to have its share of tectonic effects too.

I know Bonzo and jazdoc sure like it.

The one at your place has bonzo breaking down the barn. The live version from 1975 Earl's Court is great on YouTube as well, and is on the double dvd, good for movie theatre but not hifi. The Achilles, Marc, in the double dvd from Knebworth 1979 is excellent

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm always fascinated by the sports v music comparison.

Each generation of sportsmen pretty much reaches new hts. Federer > McEnroe > Laver, Messi > Maradona > Pele (give or take).

But musicians? No rock drummer since Bonham has come close. Ditto Buddy Rich in big band, Tony Williams and Elvin Jones in jazz.

I can can well imagine Bonham tearing it up in '79. I heard a rumour that he could get almost the same sound out of a tiny jazz 18" dia kick drum as his signature 26".

So, Zep on 45 on idler. This could be killer.