EMT - JSD series Carts

[mtemur]

no wonder, the Kiseki SUT was designed by Kondo-San

I didn’t know that. Thanks.

 

[Massimo66]

no wonder, the Kiseki SUT was designed by Kondo-San

Absolutely true transformers produced by Kondo San and assembled in Holland by that farfalla Herman Van Den Dungen. However, this Kiseki mct 2 was a great experience, in the past I had had the mct 1 in my hands and due to the compulsive attitude I had towards hifi and the mania of looking for something better before purchasing a product someone else more far-sighted than me didn't think twice about buying it and taking it home.

 

[findog]

Doug White at The Voice That Is is an EMT distributor.

 

[MortenB]

I just bought a JSD - Platinum freshly rebuild at EMT after the young son of the first owner broke the cantilever. The seller learned, that he needs a cartridge with a stylus guard…

My phonostage is the Thöress - Phono Enhancer, and the 1mV output from the JSD - Platinum is on the loud side for the MC inputs and too low for the MM input, so I have been checking various SUT options to find something in the 1:5 range. EMT sell their own, but quite expensive.

What I did was to create this DIY solution based on Lundahl LL1931 transformers, but with the two secondary windings in parallel resulting in a 1:4 step-up. For some reason Lundahls data sheet only mention how to connect the trannies for 1:8 and 1:16, but with two secondary windings 1:4 is also possible.

I finished the SUT yesterday and got the EMT installed in my Davinci Audio Labs - Nobile tonearm and had a first listen, knowing that this is basically a new cartridge, and also a new SUT. First impression is very good; dynamic, natural, transparent and gain with the 1:4 SUT is perfect. Now time for some break-in and then I will play more with loading etc.

 

[thekong]

Just for your reference, I have tested a Lundahl transformer, which could be wired for either 1:5 or 1:10, with my EMT P6.0. In my system, I preferred the 1:10 setting. You may want to test the 1:8 setting to see if it works for you!

Best

 

[MortenB]

Just for your reference, I have tested a Lundahl transformer, which could be wired for either 1:5 or 1:10, with my EMT P6.0. In my system, I preferred the 1:10 setting. You may want to test the 1:8 setting to see if it works for you!

Best

Thanks for the info on your experience. Did you change the load also when going from 1:5 or 1:10? Often the difference in sound is because the load the cartridge sees changes.

In this case where I connect the two secondary windings in parallel this cuts the impedance of the seconday in half, and that in itself should be an advantage.

 

[thekong]

No, I didn’t change the loading.

I understand the impedance matching could change the sound, but is halving the impedance a sure advantage? I am not good at this, so what impedance is the cartridge seeing when you connect the secondary in parallel?

 

[MortenB]

No, I didn’t change the loading.

I understand the impedance matching could change the sound, but is halving the impedance a sure advantage? I am not good at this, so what impedance is the cartridge seeing when you connect the secondary in parallel?

I would think then, that the difference you heard was due to the change in load the cartridge ‘’see’’ when switching from 1:5 and 1:10. It also makes sense, that when not using load resistors, that you preferred 1:10, as this is closer to the 200 - 300 ohm load recommended by EMT. Here the calculations:

1:5 gives: 47000 / (5x5) = 1.880 ohm the cartridge ‘’see’’ as load.
1:10 gives: 47000 / (10x10) = 470 ohm the cartridge ’’see’’ as load.

In my case with the 1:4 the cartridge ‘’see’’ around 2900 ohm, and for now I have 330 ohm load resistors on the secondary side of the transformers.

What I talk about with the benefit of parallel coupling of the secondary windings inside the transformers is something different. This has to do with reducing the so called ‘’copper loss’’ to half as much, and that is a good thing.

 

[mtemur]

In my case with the 1:4 the cartridge ‘’see’’ around 2900 ohm, and for now I have 330 ohm load resistors on the secondary side of the transformers.

Now cartridge is loaded at 270ohms if I’m not mistaken. By paralleling secondaries you achieved low voltage gain (1:4) and double the current at the output of SUT which is unimportant for an MM phono stage.

 

[MortenB]

Now cartridge is loaded at 270ohms if I’m not mistaken. By paralleling secondaries you achieved low voltage gain (1:4) and double the current at the output of SUT which is unimportant for an MM phono stage.

By my calculation the cartride is loaded at 296 ohm. When I have some more hours on the cartridge and SUT I will experiment with the loads.

According to an experienced transformer designer I’m lucky to know, the parallel connection of the secondaries is a benefit, and the 1:4 ratio is perfect with the EMT, so all is good.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I would think then, that the difference you heard was due to the change in load the cartridge ‘’see’’ when switching from 1:5 and 1:10. It also makes sense, that when not using load resistors, that you preferred 1:10, as this is closer to the 200 - 300 ohm load recommended by EMT. Here the calculations:

1:5 gives: 47000 / (5x5) = 1.880 ohm the cartridge ‘’see’’ as load.
1:10 gives: 47000 / (10x10) = 470 ohm the cartridge ’’see’’ as load.

In my case with the 1:4 the cartridge ‘’see’’ around 2900 ohm, and for now I have 330 ohm load resistors on the secondary side of the transformers.

What I talk about with the benefit of parallel coupling of the secondary windings inside the transformers is something different. This has to do with reducing the so called ‘’copper loss’’ to half as much, and that is a good thing.

Yes, EMT pickups 1.05mV were always difficult to combine with transformers with a normal gear ratio e.g 1:10. Old STX 20/21s are excellent with Haufe transformers photo .


But today produce EMT a low output version since Micha Huber (Thales) took over the company. This gave you a lot of choice with transformers.
1/4 coil version 2×6ohms 0,3mV

 

[mtemur]

By my calculation the cartride is loaded at 296 ohm

both numbers are very close.

 

[MortenB]

@DasguteOhr, thank you for sharing the STX 20 / 21, I have never seen that before. As you say the 1.05mV is a bit problematic to combine with transformers.

I also noticed, that EMT under Micha Huber now offer more ‘’normal’’ versions of the cartridges. Were I to order a new EMT cartridge, I would go for the 1/4 coil version 2×6ohms 0,3mV version you mention.

 

[DasguteOhr]

@DasguteOhr, thank you for sharing the STX 20 / 21, I have never seen that before. As you say the 1.05mV is a bit problematic to combine with transformers.

I also noticed, that EMT under Micha Huber now offer more ‘’normal’’ versions of the cartridges. Were I to order a new EMT cartridge, I would go for the 1/4 coil version 2×6ohms 0,3mV version you mention.

The stx 21 you can buy at Studiotechnik Dusch,thats the orginal transformer from emt tube phono 155 for all 24 ohm coil cartridges from emt in a better housing.

Studiotechnik Dusch

Click on highend components

 

[MortenB]

Thanks again, I have learned something new today! They do not mention the transformer ratio, but one must assume it’s around 1:5..? Do you have any idea on the price level for these?

 

[DasguteOhr]

Thanks again, I have learned something new today! They do not mention the transformer ratio, but one must assume it’s around 1:5..? Do you have any idea on the price level for these?

New at Dusch ebay shop , used sometimes cheaper on ebay.
I don't know the exact ratio of the haufe transformer or this type number

SUT Box Original STX 21 for EMT TSD 15 TMD 25 TND 65 XSD 15 HSD 6 | eBay

STUDIOTECHNIK DUSCH. Dipl.-Ing. Hans-Ludwig Dusch. Somit ist auch durch Verwendung passender Anschlussstecker und hochwertigem Kabel kein Qualitätsverlust zu befürchten. Die Ausgänge des STX 21 werden direkt an den Phono-Eingängen des Vorverstärkers angeschlossen.

www.ebay.de

 

[MortenB]

Thanks again, not to crazy priced. I might try one of those at some point..!

 

[Massimo66]

Thanks again, not to crazy priced. I might try one of those at some point..!

I tried stx 20 I wasn't crazy about how well it drove the EMT was less transparent than other step ups I've tried already the internal one of my allnic 7000 was much better. To date the one we liked the most is the Kiseki mct 2 but it is unobtainable. the EMT 6 platinum is very sensitive to adjustments such as VTA and everything else. before deciding which step up to use it with, let it work for at least 50 hours. I drive it fantastically with the ypsilon 10 L by putting a 480 Ohms resistor in parallel making it read around 260 ohms. another step up that drives it to great effect is the good tx 103. enjoy listening

 

[Maril555]

I tried stx 20 I wasn't crazy about how well it drove the EMT was less transparent than other step ups I've tried already the internal one of my allnic 7000 was much better. To date the one we liked the most is the Kiseki mct 2 but it is unobtainable. the EMT 6 platinum is very sensitive to adjustments such as VTA and everything else. before deciding which step up to use it with, let it work for at least 50 hours. I drive it fantastically with the ypsilon 10 L by putting a 480 Ohms resistor in parallel making it read around 260 ohms. another step up that drives it to great effect is the good tx 103. enjoy listening

By coincidence, I have Ypsilon MC-10L for sale on Audiomart
It is a fantastic SUT, I have used it with Kiseki Purple Heart that has 40 Ohms internal impedance, similar to EMT

 

[MortenB]

Thank you for advise on different transformers. For now I have decided on the Lundahl LL-1931 transformers coupled in a 1:4 ratio. I will start by following your advise Massimo66 and put some hours on it to break in the cartridge and transformer, and then time will tell…

For my Thöress - Phono Enhancer I do think though that 1:10 ratio is way to much. I would not want/need more output, than what I have from the 1:4.