EMIA Elmaformer (volume control) review

[Tuckia]

Program is probably too formal of a term for their organic operation. Simply ask.

For me the move from cu to ag was very worthwhile. Both have a seductive character which I‘d say is attributable to permalloy. You don’t lose that aspect with ag windings.

I still have aspirations for the Permalloy amps. Probably go with cu for that. There is a significant cost difference.

 

[bazelio]

Program is probably too formal of a term for their organic operation. Simply ask.

For me the move from cu to ag was very worthwhile. Both have a seductive character which I‘d say is attributable to permalloy. You don’t lose that aspect with ag windings.

I still have aspirations for the Permalloy amps. Probably go with cu for that. There is a significant cost difference.

My good friend has the Permalloy Emia mono block amps. Spectacular. I'm not much of a 300b fan, but the sound with type 50 coke bottle tubes was out of this world.

 

[Tuckia]

My good friend has the Permalloy Emia mono block amps. Spectacular. I'm not much of a 300b fan, but the sound with type 50 coke bottle tubes was out of this world.

A reported sighting in the wild! Thank you. When it comes to 300b’s, there is a bit of variability in sound. Do you recall which you heard?

Two watts from a 50 may be skimpy on my speakers. Was thinking the 300b would be the primary choice here. My current amp seems to work well with either the WE300b or EML 300b XLS. Others seem anemic.

 

[bazelio]

A reported sighting in the wild! Thank you. When it comes to 300b’s, there is a bit of variability in sound. Do you recall which you heard?

Two watts from a 50 may be skimpy on my speakers. Was thinking the 300b would be the primary choice here. My current amp seems to work well with either the WE300b or EML 300b XLS. Others seem anemic.

Elrog, ACME I think, one or two others. Something like that. It was almost a year ago, now. 300b just isn't for me. Not offensive in any way. Just not good enough. Type 50 globes were also not for me, but were preferable to all 300b I heard. But then the coke bottle 50s just sang. Loved the sound.

 

[Tuckia]

Aside from the personal preference aspect, is the EMIA amp simply a better 50 amp and a mediocre 300b amp? I’m aware it was developed for the 50 with the 300b option an add on consideration. Each requires a different output connection for impedance matching/loading per the manual. If that change wasn’t made during testing the results would be significantly affected.

Have you heard other 300b amps you would consider to be better?

I’m sure a definitive answer isn’t possible, but please share more so we can better understand.

I’ve owned/used other triode amps - 45, 2a3, PX25, 300b, GM70, 845. Outright the 45 sound quality was probably best, but the low power wasn't workable long term. My current 300b amp doesn’t really suffer in a sound quality comparison to my 45 experience. I understand the 300b is difficult to implement and there are many poor examples in the lower price segment. It just happens to have the right power output for my situation. To move down into the lower powered DHT output options, I would need to go to P-P. So the 50 option really isn’t viable.

 

[beaur]

Aside from the personal preference aspect, is the EMIA amp simply a better 50 amp and a mediocre 300b amp? I’m aware it was developed for the 50 with the 300b option an add on consideration. Each requires a different output connection for impedance matching/loading per the manual. If that change wasn’t made during testing the results would be significantly affected.

Have you heard other 300b amps you would consider to be better?

I’m sure a definitive answer isn’t possible, but please share more so we can better understand.

I’ve owned/used other triode amps - 45, 2a3, PX25, 300b, GM70, 845. Outright the 45 sound quality was probably best, but the low power wasn't workable long term. My current 300b amp doesn’t really suffer in a sound quality comparison to my 45 experience. I understand the 300b is difficult to implement and there are many poor examples in the lower price segment. It just happens to have the right power output for my situation. To move down into the lower powered DHT output options, I would need to go to P-P. So the 50 option really isn’t viable.

Have you tried the lower powered tubes in your system? Not sure what the impedance curve for your speaker looks like but I lived with my 50s driving Tannoys for years. their rated sensitivity was 95 but I always assumed it was a bit lower. My 50s drove those as loud as I wanted and I have what would be considered a very large space. Yes they could have used a little more grunt at the lower end but I can live with that considering the tone I desire is there. You might be pleasantly surprised by 50s or 45s in your system. I too share your "it's just not quite right" opinion of most 300b amps.

I will say that the EMIA amp are damn good and I should have jumped at the chance when I had it. I've heard those things make magic more than I can count and are on my bucket list to get.

Beau

 

[Tuckia]

Beau, thank you for your input, good points to consider. These Tobian are rated at 99db @ 8 ohms nominal, but they measure 5ohm at terminals with a dmm. I suspect that is the minimum. They are designed to work with tube amps. So maybe a 50 is viable. My room is large as well, but I don’t play loud, maybe 80db peak at the seat. More important is the tonal balance. When does the bass dry out. Often a large PS is key to maintain balance as the volume goes up.

You refer to missing your opportunity with an EMIA amp. They are still available at $22k, but used to be $15k. That’s a taller hurdle, if that’s what you are referring to.

My previous speakers were rated at 96db, which maybe was optimistic too. My TM 45 didn’t have quite enough juice for them. But 99db is a meaningful difference. Magic is a rare commodity.

 

[beaur]

Well I've know Dave and Jeffrey for a long time now. Was lucky enough to be around when they were coming out with the first commercial version. Heard that and should have pounced for a fraction of the current retail but I was an under paid public servant who was just starting a family and couldn't justify pulling the trigger.

I get you on the tonal balance. My current amps have a way to large power transforner that is probably why my 2W and keep up with the Jones. If you are anywhere near Brooklyn we could see what they sound like in your system. I currently have the out of the system as I am fascinated by a 20 something year old Musetax system I had refurbished.

Beau

 

[bazelio]

Aside from the personal preference aspect, is the EMIA amp simply a better 50 amp and a mediocre 300b amp? I’m aware it was developed for the 50 with the 300b option an add on consideration. Each requires a different output connection for impedance matching/loading per the manual. If that change wasn’t made during testing the results would be significantly affected.

Have you heard other 300b amps you would consider to be better?

I’m sure a definitive answer isn’t possible, but please share more so we can better understand.

I’ve owned/used other triode amps - 45, 2a3, PX25, 300b, GM70, 845. Outright the 45 sound quality was probably best, but the low power wasn't workable long term. My current 300b amp doesn’t really suffer in a sound quality comparison to my 45 experience. I understand the 300b is difficult to implement and there are many poor examples in the lower price segment. It just happens to have the right power output for my situation. To move down into the lower powered DHT output options, I would need to go to P-P. So the 50 option really isn’t viable.

It's certainly personal preference. The 300b has just left a lot to be desired each time I've heard it. I think the Elrog is the best 300b I've heard, if that helps you understand my preferences. But the Emia is a very good amp, and 300b is not any sort of after thought as the 5608 can drive it without any compromise.

 

[Tuckia]

Well I've know Dave and Jeffrey for a long time now. Was lucky enough to be around when they were coming out with the first commercial version. Heard that and should have pounced for a fraction of the current retail but I was an under paid public servant who was just starting a family and couldn't justify pulling the trigger.

I get you on the tonal balance. My current amps have a way to large power transforner that is probably why my 2W and keep up with the Jones. If you are anywhere near Brooklyn we could see what they sound like in your system. I currently have the out of the system as I am fascinated by a 20 something year old Musetax system I had refurbished.

Beau

I'm about 9600 city blocks from Brooklyn, lol. A long walk carrying oversized transformers. But thanks for your consideration.

Regarding 300b, I've heard more than a few implementations that were uninspired. In those cases the low end was deficient. Very flat. That tends to sour the whole experience. My current 300b amp does not fall into that category. It's basically an amplifier pushing a pair of output tubes through a matched interstage. Alternating with my 100 watt SS amp, the tonality is similar through the low end, however, the 300b just kills it with depth and harmonic structure that the SS amp can't do.

The last time I communicated with Jeffrey and Dave they didn't have a demo amp available. For now I've got server upgrade on the brain, again, so it may have to wait a bit.

 

[MRubey]

I inquired with Jeffrey about a custom amp for my Nenuphar. He let me know that he and Dave have a 4 box GM70 on the drawing board as an upcoming EM/IA product.

 

[beaur]

I inquired with Jeffrey about a custom amp for my Nenuphar. He let me know that he and Dave have a 4 box GM70 on the drawing board as an upcoming EM/IA product.

I've heard rumors! Will be seeing Dave at the Southwest Audiofest next weekend. WIll asked if it's anything but paper. People have to stop ordering transformers etc from him as he's been crazy busy winding and can't get much else done.

 

[beaur]

I'm about 9600 city blocks from Brooklyn, lol. A long walk carrying oversized transformers. But thanks for your consideration.

Regarding 300b, I've heard more than a few implementations that were uninspired. In those cases the low end was deficient. Very flat. That tends to sour the whole experience. My current 300b amp does not fall into that category. It's basically an amplifier pushing a pair of output tubes through a matched interstage. Alternating with my 100 watt SS amp, the tonality is similar through the low end, however, the 300b just kills it with depth and harmonic structure that the SS amp can't do.

The last time I communicated with Jeffrey and Dave they didn't have a demo amp available. For now I've got server upgrade on the brain, again, so it may have to wait a bit.

They rarely have demo equipment available as it's mostly built to order. Server upgraditis can be costly. I stay out of that game as well as the R2R. If I want to listen, well that's what friends are for.

If my math is correct that about 1000K miles. Easy trip, driving 3K over the next several weeks visiting friends and family and going to the Southwest Audiofest.

Beau

 

[Tuckia]

Interesting rumors about a GM70. FWIW, I'm in WI, Dave's homeland. For a moment he thought we went to high school together, but that didn't prove to be the case.

Middleton, WI - 960 miles. An easy drive in one shot, but No Sleep Till Brooklyn. Alright, that was a stretch but I had to fit it in somehow.

Enjoy the show. Maybe you can catch Axpona on the return trip. I know someone with an interesting server coming in nearby.

 

[beaur]

Interesting rumors about a GM70. FWIW, I'm in WI, Dave's homeland. For a moment he thought we went to high school together, but that didn't prove to be the case.

Middleton, WI - 960 miles. An easy drive in one shot, but No Sleep Till Brooklyn. Alright, that was a stretch but I had to fit it in somehow.

Enjoy the show. Maybe you can catch Axpona on the return trip. I know someone with an interesting server coming in nearby.

Yeah, I've made that drive a few times. My sister went to UW and married a guy from Appleton. My kids spent a lot of summers there enjoying lake country.

Thinking about AXPONA, you going?

Beau

 

[bazelio]

I inquired with Jeffrey about a custom amp for my Nenuphar. He let me know that he and Dave have a 4 box GM70 on the drawing board as an upcoming EM/IA product.

But do you really need GM70 power for the Nenuphars?

 

[Tuckia]

Yeah, I've made that drive a few times. My sister went to UW and married a guy from Appleton. My kids spent a lot of summers there enjoying lake country.

Thinking about AXPONA, you going?

Beau

I’m about 5 miles from the UW campus, where I attended before the internet was invented. Lots of water here. I like a good lake, or river.

Just a couple hours to Axpona so I’ll likely go. Let me know.
Greg

 

[Tuckia]

But do you really need GM70 power for the Nenuphars?

I believe the Nenuphars are only 92db. I heard them at a dealer driven by Triode Labs 2a3 SET. He cranked them up to about 40% distortion for my enjoyment. You really don’t want to utilize all 3.5 of those watts. If you want to push the Nenuphars a bit, they do seem to be up to the challenge, you don’t like 300b, then GM70 are the next man up. There could be worse pairings.

 

[MRubey]

But do you really need GM70 power for the Nenuphars?

I just had the V2 upgrade done to the drivers.
It changed the specs slightly from 92db 6 ohms to 91db 8ohms.
I was driving them with an Audion 2A3 when I first got them. The 2A3 was glorious with my previous 97db RETHM speakers and worked well with the Nenuphar with digital but wasn’t enough with my phonostage of the time.
I bought a SIT3, I got one of the last ones, 240 something of 250.
I have a LTA pre and Sutherland phonostage. It’s a nice system.
Still, I have that itch. I know this speaker has a lot more potential.
I asked Jon at Refined Audio, the Cube importer and previous owner of Lowther America about the optimum setup for the Nenuphar. I also asked Cube. They are Tektron fans and dont suggest anything else. Jon told me the two times he heard the greatest magic from the Nenuphar was at the home of Peter B.(bless him) on level 5 ANUK and then another time on a bespoke GM70. He suggested I ask J.J. about a custom GM70 designed for this speaker. That brings us to my post above. Now, the cost of the EM/IA GM70 in Cu will probably be similar to the cost of the Permalloy 50/300B in Ag. So that bears some thought. Also, Robin Wyatt took the Miyajima 2020 OTL to Peters to try on the Nenuphar and the result was said to be amazing.
I doubt any of those choices would be a disappointment.
I think the best bet though is Jeffrey and Dave.

 

[bazelio]

Got it. I thought the Nenuphars were high efficiency. GM70 is an interesting option then. The Lamm GM70 amp certainly is highly regarded. I'd hold out for the Emia.