DS Audio Grand Master + EMM Labs DS-EQ1

[gajgmusic]

That is a lovely recording and the system really looks beautiful. I am very impressed you built so much of it. Enjoy

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Interesting, @christensenleif@msn.com uses the Holton on his massive bass horns

He has moved on to Powersoft.

 

[Ackcheng]

Thank you for that explanation. It makes sense. The comparison involves both the different cartridges and the different arms. I find it difficult to attribute the sound heard to just the cartridges. Do you have a preference between the two arms, and also between the two cartridges? I always find it difficult to make such comparisons, even if only one variable changes, because the set up process may always be slightly different. I guess we do the best we can until satisfied.

Let me try to explain the sonics differences. I am not very good at describing and easily loss for words. Hope you don't mind. I have only tried DSAauio on Axiom and Esturo Gold on Graham but not vs versa yet. The DSAUDIO/Axiom combo has a very high resolution and density. When listening to a large symphony piece, each piece of instruments can be heard/seen in its position in space. I can also hear the sense of space around each piece of instruments. It is a gentlemen, well composed, full of confidence and keep everything under control. The Estura Gold/Graham has a lower resolution and density (only relative to DSAudio, it is one of the best I have heard). But it is still very dynamic. With Graham Elite, may be due to the shorter arm. It is more exciting, particularly in rock music. It is a young lady, full of energy, flamboyant but sometimes almost out of control but not in a bad way.

 

[rDin]

I think that (the gentleman and the young lady) is one of the most evocative and therefore useful hi-fi analogies I've ever read Kudos!

 

[gds7368]

I’ll do my best to describe what I’m hearing after about a week … just got the Grand Master equalizer in for a home demo to compare to my EMM Labs equalizer.

Set it up (for lack of a better term, as it’s on the carpet floor due to cable lengths) this afternoon. I’ll probably try to get them onto separate CMS shelves later this weekend, but I’m having too much fun listening right now. Will update soon.

(I agree that the footprint is a bit daunting; I would need to purchase another set of racks)

 

[TLi]

The Grand Master Equalizer is very sensitive to vibration. I tried many different footers and isolation methods and now end up using Accurion i4 active isolation platform for the main unit and Stillpoints Ultra 5 for the power supply. This combination gives the best sound in my system.

The sound is also different with the long and short umbilical cords. You may want to try them both. The short ones do not always sound better.

 

[gds7368]

The Grand Master Equalizer is very sensitive to vibration. I tried many different footers and isolation methods and now end up using Accurion i4 active isolation platform for the main unit and Stillpoints Ultra 5 for the power supply. This combination gives the best sound in my system.

The sound is also different with the long and short umbilical cords. You may want to try them both. The short ones do not always sound better.

Wow that’s some great information and I’ll work on getting optimal setup - for what I have available to me - this weekend.

THANK YOU TLi !!!

 

[gajgmusic]

It will be very interesting to hear what you find. I had the opportunity to compare but not in my own system.

 

[gian60]

In Italy we are poor,
Italian distributor has 003 and W2,very fantastic cartridges,cannot image Grand Master

 

[Sallingboe Audio]

I am told there is no digital component at all. If there were, then I would not be excited.

HI Ron
It is true, just spoke to the owner of DS-Audio (we are now their distributor in Denmark) and he confirmed that there is nothing digital in his cartridges. I havent read all material on the products yet but believe him . He explained that he is guilty of the confusion since he first named his business Digital Stream (DS) Corporation, this is why he now just calls it DS-Audio

 

[gds7368]

I’m seriously considering a Grand Master with the Master 1 EQ. Can you describe the difference between the Master 1 EQ and the EMM Labs unit?

I had a home demo of both units and significantly preferred the EMM Labs equalizer in my room. Better detail and more natural sounding. I didn't find the two very close in performance to my ears, and would definitely encourage a home demo of both in your own system if you were deciding between the two. You can PM me for details of the EMM Labs dealer who easily arranged my 2-week home demo if that would help you.

 

[gds7368]

Concluded my home demo of the Grand Master equalizer, which ended up being an easy purchase.

My home demos start with my sample tracks on A then change to B, and then move on to whole albums the same way. Except this one. Once I inserted the Grand Master equalizer I just couldn't stop listening to it for 3 straight days. Everything the EMM Labs equalizer does is still excellent, with black background, natural decay to instruments, clear voices, and fantastic soundstage. The GM equalizer takes everything closer to live music. From a completely quiet background emerges dynamic details I've never previously heard in my system. Bass in particular is full, deep, and extended and I've been listening at a slightly lower volume (though guests seem to like it cranked) with even more enjoyment.

Unprompted sound bites from guest audiophiles:

"Wow!" several times in the middle of listening to tracks
"That is the blackest background!"
"I've had this album for 30 years and heard it on a hundred different systems. It has never, EVER, sounded this good, Greg" [Jazz at the Pawnshop]
"I'm just going to start bringing my LPs over here to listen"
"The singer is right THERE and the sax is right over THERE!" (might have had some wine before that)
"This sounds like we are in a jazz club."
At 10 pm: "I'm going to listen to jazz albums on your system tonight until you throw me out. This is amazing."

 

[simonthepieman]

ok UK based just installed DS003 and matching EQ box £5k uk pounds. using an SME Model 15 with series V Arm on a kinetic systems air platform.
Not wishing to throw the term "game changer" around but I feel it is so natural from top to bottom, no restriction on low end setting into active ATC 150s, as super tramp say Bloody marvellous!
would love to try EMM labs EQ box and/or try grand master with this Ds003 eq unit.
So one word description "effortless"

 

[simonthepieman]

Of course no coils no magnets so guess what No Noise blackest backgrounds
shocking compared to normal MC's and phono stages.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Congratulations! I am glad you are happy with the new set up!

 

[matakana]

ok UK based just installed DS003 and matching EQ box £5k uk pounds. using an SME Model 15 with series V Arm on a kinetic systems air platform.
Not wishing to throw the term "game changer" around but I feel it is so natural from top to bottom, no restriction on low end setting into active ATC 150s, as super tramp say Bloody marvellous!
would love to try EMM labs EQ box and/or try grand master with this Ds003 eq unit.
So one word description "effortless"

Where in the UK if you don't mind me asking ?

 

[Dogberry]

Does anyone else notice a consistent fact about the wonder-cartridges? They all address the issue of mass on the cantilever. The Soundsmith straingauge lets the cantilever push against a dielectric without necessarily having to move at all on the proximal side of the grommet suspension. The DS has only the negligible mass of two wafer thin screens to shade a pair of LEDs. The AT Art1000 has its moving coils mounted right by the stylus.
It might be a little easier for me to see this convergence as I've been a fan of Decca cartridges, where there is no conventional cantilever, with vibration in one plane measured right from the stylus holder, and in the other just above it on the armature. I know, they have a reputation, something like 'fantastic but unreliable'. Probably well-deserved at one time, but since John Wright took over manufacture it has not been true at all. I have a Jubilee and a Reference. Recently I sent the Reference for a final rebuild (John is retiring and there is no one to take over, partly as the company making the armatures has gone too). So I decided to look at other takes on the moving iron principle, Nagaoka, Grado and Soundsmith, partly to see if there was a viable alternative, and partly to find something to stretch out the life of my London Decca Reference. I found the Nagaoka MP-500 is remarkably good for the price, and simulates a Decca quite well if you aren't paying close attention. A Grado Lineage Statement 3 left me unmoved (what a shame!) The Soundsmith Sussurro II is kinda halfway between the MP-500 and the Statement 3. The MP-500 was good enough to inspire me to buy a second SME TT to keep it on, so I may stretch out the life of my Deccas by using it much of the time. In fact that table has an SME arm with interchangeable headshells so I can play with a lot of pickups rather easily, and I changed my phono stage to allow five stored presets to facilitate this (a Nu-Vista Vinyl).
I may not be around to see it, but I suspect that the theory propounded by Peter Ledermann will become accepted fact eventually: the least amount of moving mass is the best amount, whether or not we buy into stylus jitter and cactus cantilevers. Don't the wonder-cartridges all confirm this?

 

[matakana]

Does anyone else notice a consistent fact about the wonder-cartridges? They all address the issue of mass on the cantilever. The Soundsmith straingauge lets the cantilever push against a dielectric without necessarily having to move at all on the proximal side of the grommet suspension. The DS has only the negligible mass of two wafer thin screens to shade a pair of LEDs. The AT Art1000 has its moving coils mounted right by the stylus.
It might be a little easier for me to see this convergence as I've been a fan of Decca cartridges, where there is no conventional cantilever, with vibration in one plane measured right from the stylus holder, and in the other just above it on the armature. I know, they have a reputation, something like 'fantastic but unreliable'. Probably well-deserved at one time, but since John Wright took over manufacture it has not been true at all. I have a Jubilee and a Reference. Recently I sent the Reference for a final rebuild (John is retiring and there is no one to take over, partly as the company making the armatures has gone too). So I decided to look at other takes on the moving iron principle, Nagaoka, Grado and Soundsmith, partly to see if there was a viable alternative, and partly to find something to stretch out the life of my London Decca Reference. I found the Nagaoka MP-500 is remarkably good for the price, and simulates a Decca quite well if you aren't paying close attention. A Grado Lineage Statement 3 left me unmoved (what a shame!) The Soundsmith Sussurro II is kinda halfway between the MP-500 and the Statement 3. The MP-500 was good enough to inspire me to buy a second SME TT to keep it on, so I may stretch out the life of my Deccas by using it much of the time. In fact that table has an SME arm with interchangeable headshells so I can play with a lot of pickups rather easily, and I changed my phono stage to allow five stored presets to facilitate this (a Nu-Vista Vinyl).
I may not be around to see it, but I suspect that the theory propounded by Peter Ledermann will become accepted fact eventually: the least amount of moving mass is the best amount, whether or not we buy into stylus jitter and cactus cantilevers. Don't the wonder-cartridges all confirm this?

Nice post Dogberry. I too have just had my 55 yr old plus Deccas 4RC, C4E.
recently serviced by John and fitted with Fine line contact styluses ! Absolute vinyl heaven! And MM too.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Can't disagree about the Straingauge. It has an unerring ability to sound very realistic with amazing tone and speed. Maybe not as fleshed out as the DaVa I've heard twice at Audiophile Bill, but very saturated nevertheless, and I wouldn't swap the cart for anything else regarding it's speed.
Has taken me some time to dial it in and eradicate any propensity for skeletalness.
A "wonder cart" indeed.

 

[mikld]

Can't disagree about the Straingauge. It has an unerring ability to sound very realistic with amazing tone and speed. Maybe not as fleshed out as the DaVa I've heard twice at Audiophile Bill, but very saturated nevertheless, and I wouldn't swap the cart for anything else regarding it's speed.
Has taken me some time to dial it in and eradicate any propensity for skeletalness.
A "wonder cart" indeed.

Spirit - have you heard the DS Audio grand master or any of their carts, and would you be able to relate to the SS SG?