Don't accept what people will say as fact

[Nuforce]

Chaps I've decided to try a pair of SVS SB-1000 Pro with my 20.1, but have any of you tried using the high pass?

I was considering setting the high to 30hz to protect my speakers as I intend to keep them for life, and I find I need to re tighten all the panel screws every year or so as they start to rattle ever so slightly on very low frequencies.

I have a large room and run them pretty hard.

 

[Chops]

Chaps I've decided to try a pair of SVS SB-1000 Pro with my 20.1, but have any of you tried using the high pass?

I was considering setting the high to 30hz to protect my speakers as I intend to keep them for life, and I find I need to re tighten all the panel screws every year or so as they start to rattle ever so slightly on very low frequencies.

I have a large room and run them pretty hard.

They don't have a "high pass", just a simple pass-thru that send the fullrange signal on to whatever else you want/need to send the signal to.

I run my PB-1000 Pro's at 37 Hz @ 24 dB and let my 1.7i's sing full range. I've never had any issues with my 1.7i's, and I play them fairly loud at times.

 

[cfgardei1]

I'm concerned about transitioning from the panels to the subs if BOTH are crossed over - I run my 3.7i's full-range and just let the subs "fill-in" where the 3.7s (or ANY dipole) falls short. But, mine are new enough I haven't experienced any rattling. ((IF I did - or do - I would cross them over slowly (maybe 6dB/Octave @ 100Hz, which is -12dB @ 25Hz - a 1000V, 400microF cap will do it) but I'd still use a 24dB/Octave active crossover for the subs. You've GOT TO keep the bass (above 20 or 25Hz) out of the subs - or there's little point in owning planars!))

By the way: good for you in defying the "anti-sub" people. I just read a forum wherein the opinion was stated that "20.7s don't need a sub". I've heard 20.7s several times and, yes, they DO! They probably DO "go down to 20Hz when properly set up", as he claims, but they CAN'T do it with any authority. You can't deny the laws of physics: when the backwave (which is, obviously, out-of-phase with the frontwave) has no isolation from the front, the bulk of the low frequencies rush around the speaker to the rarified air at the back of the speaker, and vice-versa -- they simply follow the path of least resistance. That's why ALL subs (whether $100 or $50,000) are, essentially, dynamic drivers in a box. (My JBL Boombox 3 will play bass louder than my "Maggies"! It isn't very good quality, but it's an impressive quantity.)

I plan to use subs when I get my 30.7s (The plans for the house they will be installed into are awaiting approval from the pencil-pushers) at which point I will play with the crossover - maybe 48dB/Octave @15Hz??!!).

If ANY planar speaker owner has a question about needing a sub, all they need to do is listen to "Stay" by Yellow with and without a sub - you'll never listen without it again!

 

[cfgardei1]

1) Play Toccata on Fresh Aire III (Mannheim Steamroller) with the sub crossover at 30Hz and Maggies played full range.
2) Increase crossover frequency to 50Hz
3) Turn it back to 30Hz and NEVER do #2 again!! (Unless you're a fan of muddy bass)

 

[Mcbrion]

If it is useful to anyone, Harry ran his Magnepans full range, and set the subwoofer to 35 hZ. He used to say that it produced the best bass and muddied up the midbass the least. He was using Nola Thunderbolt subwoofers (the MK III version of it, which fills in the lower midbass. The Mk II version was slightly lean in the midbass. I also have both Mk II and Mk III versions of the Thunderbolt subwoofers and the difference is there to be heard if one has both). I have always run my subwoofers full range, cutting them off at 35 hZ so they didn't muddy up the midbass on the main speakers.

Later on, he set up double Thunderbolts in a "brace," so he could stack 2 on top of each other for each channel (à la the (then) big Nola Grand Exotica speakers, circa 2009). He said it was...."a**-kicking."

He also used the phase control on the Thunderbolts to dial them in to match the 20.1s and said it was extremely important to adjust for phase, but that, once dialed in, he was very happy with them. He later wrote about it in TAS.

He had no problem combining the Nolas and the big Magnepans.

 

[Dogberry]

Back when I could only imagine the joy of owning Quad ESLs, it was taken for granted that the other price you paid for owning them was little bass. There used to be ads in the back of Gramophone for an add-on subwoofer that made a stand for 63s to rest on, and it was felt to be OK. That influenced me when I bought my last pair of Quads, going for the 2905s with extra bass panels, rather than 2805s which were updated 63s. In an unrelated purchase, I bought a cheap Canadian made powered subwoofer for the basement video system (mostly so I could feel the 'Dolby THX Deep Note' - yes, a mere human, I know). These days it sits between my 2905s and gets fed from a second output on the pre-amp. The trick is to restrict it to 50Hz and below, and keep its volume control down where, like a spice in cooking, where you don't notice it, but it makes a difference. I'm not interested in room-shaking bass, I just want a tiny bit more authority in what comes from the bass panels of the Quads. The fact it was cheap is a bonus to me: there is no need for such an amp/sub to be expensive! For the sake of my pride, I would buy a used Quad subwoofer (NLA) if one ever shows up for sale, but I doubt it would do a better job!
Maybe a similar approach would work for Magnepans?

 

[cfgardei1]

LONGGGG time without being on here.

To be honest (which does not necessarily imply that the rest of the time I'm being DIShonest...), I have modified my subs' involvement (slope, frequency and level) depending on my mood or my music. (I now have a pair of SVS SB4000's to give a bottom-end to my 30.7s)

The 30.7s sound SOOO good, I was tempted to use them without subs - that lasted about 15 minutes! Then, I decided to - as Dogberry puts it - administer the sub-bass in small doses "like spice in cooking". To this end, I run the Maggies full-range and bring in the subs at 30Hz, 24db/Octave and at a level that you can't tell they're playing -- until you turn them off (about -10dB on my app). This works for me on about 90% of what I listen to, from jazz to classical to Supertramp.

But when I'm more inclined to play AC/DC, Rush or System of a down, I run 24dB crossovers on both (high and low-pass) at 100Hz and crank up the subs' volume. This makes it gentler on the (VERY expensive) Maggies and gives me a thumping, bass-heavy rock n roll. Yeah, it's not as "pure" as with the lower crossover/lower level, but listening to this type of music is actually (probably) more "accurate' in the sense that rock music is ALWAYS play through huge, "muddy-bass" speakers in a live concert.

(Prior to this, I had two systems: 1) Good (Maggies) and 2) Loud (Klipsch) to choose from. But I knew the loud was making me deaf!)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Grafting woofer towers or subwoofers on Magnepans yields a wonderful system.

Relieving Magnepans of having to reproduce the lowest frequencies improves noticeably the speed and dynamics of the entire speaker.

 

[cfgardei1]

Agreed.

 

[Nuforce]

I've still yet to try subs with my 20.1s, I don't feel that I am missing a lot, probably because I mostly listen to folk and jazz.

 

[cfgardei1]

Once you try it, there's no going back. I also listen to folk and jazz - and just about everything else. In any given listening session, I might listen to Mozart, Metallica, Max Miller - and Mack 10 (seriously!). Guess what? There is no genre that doesn't have SOME sub-bass. The good news is that you don't need to spend a lot of money to find out. When I had my 3.7i's (in picture), I bought an SVS SB1000 Pro (around $500) to "experiment' with the concept. The idea was to "prove a point" and, if so proven, THEN upgrade the sub. BUT, it turns out I liked it (SVS) so much that I kept it and used it for a couple years, as my new house and Maggies were on the horizon.

More truth time: a pair of SB1000 Pros WOULD be adequate for my new 30.7s - I just felt that I needed to get bigger, better subs with such a large system. Probably wasted money because the new (PB4000's) subs will so grossly overpower the 30.7s that they are are turned WAY down: -15 or 20 dB. It's like owning a Ferrari but never leaving gridlock traffic...

Enjoy!

 

[Nuforce]

I promise to try a decent SVS at some point!

As a side note, can anyone imagine not having big magnepans? Almost as bizarre as a world without cold beer....

I will never ever sell my 20.1s. Not even for 20.7 since I find ability to bypass the crossover so useful.

 

[cfgardei1]

Sorry to say, but I am not familiar with the 20.1s. Are they true ribbon/quasi ribbon? I had 3.3Rs eons ago, but they didn't play loudly enough for me at the time (young and dumb).

You might want to audition the 3.7i's... the 20.1s won't last forever. (But, use subs with either.)

As for "big Magnepans", I have the biggest they make - and I love 'em. (But, gotta have subs.)

My older brother had Timpany's and, though impressive, they were really a "pain in the a" to set up. If they could be left where set up, this wouldn't be a huge deal, but they took up so much room that they needed to be put away after each session.

 

[Nuforce]

Sorry to say, but I am not familiar with the 20.1s. Are they true ribbon/quasi ribbon? I had 3.3Rs eons ago, but they didn't play loudly enough for me at the time (young and dumb).

You might want to audition the 3.7i's... the 20.1s won't last forever. (But, use subs with either.)

As for "big Magnepans", I have the biggest they make - and I love 'em. (But, gotta have subs.)

My older brother had Timpany's and, though impressive, they were really a "pain in the a" to set up. If they could be left where set up, this wouldn't be a huge deal, but they took up so much room that they needed to be put away after each session.

Hi

The 20.1 is almost identical to the 20.7. True ribbon. Push pull mid driver and bass driver.