Do we use our ears?

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
IMO, it has become obvious that there are many a'philes in the hobby that jump from gear to gear and are never really satisfied with what they have. IMHO, this is due to the distinct possibility that these same a'philes are NOT using their ears prior to their purchase. Which brings up my assumption that instead of hearing the gear in question in their system prior to their purchase, these people bought on either a) recommendation by a friend/reviewer or b) due to the latest has to be greatest hype or c) pricing d) specs or e) something else.

Who here buys or has bought gear without first hearing it in their system....and why? :confused:
Results?
 
IMO, it has become obvious that there are many a'philes in the hobby that jump from gear to gear and are never really satisfied with what they have. IMHO, this is due to the distinct possibility that these same a'philes are NOT using their ears prior to their purchase. Which brings up my assumption that instead of hearing the gear in question in their system prior to their purchase, these people bought on either a) recommendation by a friend/reviewer or b) due to the latest has to be greatest hype or c) pricing d) specs or e) something else.

Who here buys or has bought gear without first hearing it in their system....and why? :confused:
Results?

I've bought several things sound unheard, based on a lot of things that gave me a pretty good idea of how they would sound. I bought absolutely none of them without at least a 30-day return policy. I've returned a few. Local availability, and the liberal trial time is the why. But I think a lot of the turnover of gear in the audiophile community has nothing to do with shopping habits and everything to do with the thrill of acquisition.

Tim

Tim
 
To tell you the truth, I find audiophiles who buy components based strictly on reviews, specs, or looks to be rather amusing.

I have never bought a component with out hearing it first.

I have bought cables and isolation devices without hearing them, but that is it.

I don't really have the patience for lateral moves and the so called merry go round.


IMO, it has become obvious that there are many a'philes in the hobby that jump from gear to gear and are never really satisfied with what they have. IMHO, this is due to the distinct possibility that these same a'philes are NOT using their ears prior to their purchase. Which brings up my assumption that instead of hearing the gear in question in their system prior to their purchase, these people bought on either a) recommendation by a friend/reviewer or b) due to the latest has to be greatest hype or c) pricing d) specs or e) something else.

Who here buys or has bought gear without first hearing it in their system....and why? :confused:
Results?
 
I've seen a lot of people switch equipment around because they go for the better deals rather than what they like.

I know one guy who assembles a system, tweaks the hell out of it until it sounds fantastic then sells everything off and starts over. That guy really loves the process.

Recently I helped a vintage audio loving friend design rack solutions so he could "amp roll" 8 different pair of amps so his wife would stop complaining about the clutter. That guy really loves what each set brings to the table.

I've seen people go the status symbol approach. Most of these guys don't even fire up their systems anymore.
 
I've bought several things sound unheard, based on a lot of things that gave me a pretty good idea of how they would sound. I bought absolutely none of them without at least a 30-day return policy. I've returned a few. Local availability, and the liberal trial time is the why. But I think a lot of the turnover of gear in the audiophile community has nothing to do with shopping habits and everything to do with the thrill of acquisition.

Tim

please tell us about audiophiles you know personally who buy just for the thrill.

or is that just a wild stab to get a reaction?
 
Who here buys or has bought gear without first hearing it in their system....and why? :confused:
Results?

Many times. Most of them even without listening to them anywhere else. I am a firm believer in system matching and always need some time to tune equipment and find if I really enjoy it. Why loosing my time listening to components in systems and rooms very different from mine, if I can do it properly and comfortably at home?

As soon as you have some experience and if you buy from reputed brands you do not take a big risk. But you must be prepared to match your system and modify your listening place according to the needs of the new system. And specially you must enjoy the hobby. If a recording does not sound good move to next one, do not become obsessed with a single track of a particular recording.
 
please tell us about audiophiles you know personally who buy just for the thrill.

or is that just a wild stab to get a reaction?

I can think of a couple right here on this board who appear to be addicted to acquisition, Mike. If I was fishing for a reaction, I wouldn't have to take any wild stabs, I'd merely have to do what you've asked to start a real fire fight. I think I'll pass.

Tim
 
IMO, it has become obvious that there are many a'philes in the hobby that jump from gear to gear and are never really satisfied with what they have. IMHO, this is due to the distinct possibility that these same a'philes are NOT using their ears prior to their purchase. Which brings up my assumption that instead of hearing the gear in question in their system prior to their purchase, these people bought on either a) recommendation by a friend/reviewer or b) due to the latest has to be greatest hype or c) pricing d) specs or e) something else.

Who here buys or has bought gear without first hearing it in their system....and why? :confused:
Results?

people buy things for many different reasons. and many owners of nice gear are not serious audiophiles. a serious audiophile is not an issue of expense of gear, but of level of passion. of my friends who are serious about the hobby, all purchase most all their gear based on how it sounds to them.

personally, i have purchased a couple pieces of gear before i listened to it.

(1) Kharma Exquisite 1D speakers back in 2001. i'd never heard a Kharma Speaker, i'd only read reviews and got quite a bit of first hand impressions from listeners i trusted. i was able to buy them direct from the importer at a great price when that importer first acquired the line. i figured my risk was low since i could re-sell them without a loss. 3 years later, when they could not produce enough bass for my new room i did sell them at a small profit. they had turned out to be a great speaker and exactly what i was looking for when i moved away from my Wilson WP6's and Mark Levinson electronics to Tenor amps.
(2)Rockport Sirius III turntable. i had owned a Sirius II, but bought the III sight un-seen....and un-heard. when one came up for sale in 2002 i had to jump on it as that was a rare occurance.

i've bought some gear to investigate that type of gear.....some of which i had not heard first.
--Garrard 301 TT and Technics SP-10 Mk2 with Dobbins plinths. i had not heard either tt prior to purchase but wanted to try them in my system for an extended time to see how close to the Rockport they could come.
--Ampex ATR-102, Studer A820. back in 2007 nobody had tape decks or software to play on them. you could not go anywhere and hear them. and if you did they were in crap condition. i had to pay to have these fully reconditioned and hope i would like them. these days most metro areas have a number of people with nice tape decks and software to play on them.
--expensive headphones--i got the high end headphone itch a year or so ago. i did investigate it and purchased a couple of sets of used headphones and used amps to investigate how good they could be. i know i can sell them for a small profit.

otherwise i have heard pretty close to 100% of the gear i have purchased, and most of it in my room, prior to purchase.

i've purchased gear that has had high levels of 'audio jewelry factor' and others that are pretty kludgy looking. i admit i like pretty gear, but never at the expense of performance.

i'm trying to think of any gear i purchased for just the thrill of it.
 
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I can think of a couple right here on this board who appear to be addicted to acquisition, Mike. If I was fishing for a reaction, I wouldn't have to take any wild stabs, I'd merely have to do what you've asked to start a real fire fight. I think I'll pass.

Tim

but do you know these guys, or just read their posts? do you know anyone 'personally' who buys for the thrill?
 
Two channel stereo is a joke that relies on a phantom center illusion that not even cheap surround systems would accept - yet people are happy with imagining what's missing.

So to answer the question: No, we do not listen with our ears, but with our pre-programmed expectations.
 
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Two channel stereo is a joke that relies on a phantom center illusion that not even cheap surround systems would accept - yet people are happy with imagining what's missing.

So to answer the question: No, most people do not listen with their ears, but with their pre-programmed expectations.

Interesting observation, Soundproof:eek: Are we to presume that this is how you acquired your gear?:confused:
 
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This interview was mentioned in another thread today, in here. The opening paragraph is worth reading.

2-channel is a bad compromise. Convention and lowered expectations has people being satisfied with it. That, and the fact that we rarely listen (make evaluations) with their ears.

http://www.tapeop.com/articles/30/bob-olhsson/
 
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I am not supposed to write in green, or moderate threads, but IMHO it would be a nice thread if people posted their own experiences, not just vague insinuations about other audiophiles practices.
 
Who here buys or has bought gear without first hearing it in their system....and why?
Results?

I have purchased a little bit of everything that way. I have some vintage gear I acquired that way. I think in store auditions are a big waste of time. I really could care less how it sounds in the showroom. My room is what counts. I would rather bring it home to try it out or purchase with a 30 day return policy.

The biggest "Leaps of Faith" will always be speakers mainly because I clone them and there is quite a bit of time that goes into it. Granted it's fun but it's a real let down when you fire things up and realize that it's been in vain and you need to go in another direction. That has happened a couple of times but I have more winners than loosers so I am ahead of the game.

Rob:)
 
I am not supposed to write in green, or moderate threads, but IMHO it would be a nice thread if people posted their own experiences, not just vague insinuations about other audiophiles practices.
I will make this formal :). Please share experiences of your own, rather than explaining what the other guy does. We can let them do that :).
 
Two channel stereo is a joke that relies on a phantom center illusion that not even cheap surround systems would accept - yet people are happy with imagining what's missing.

So to answer the question: No, most people do not listen with their ears, but with their pre-programmed expectations.

Sorry, but you are simply mistaken. When people listen to my stereo system, usually the first words out of their mouths are that it sounds to them like the singer is standing right in the middle. With good imaging, a center channel is not needed, at all.
 
Sorry, but you are simply mistaken. When people listen to my stereo system, usually the first words out of their mouths are that it sounds to them like the singer is standing right in the middle. With good imaging, a center channel is not needed, at all.

I'll second that wholeheartedly.
 
Sorry, but you are simply mistaken. When people listen to my stereo system, usually the first words out of their mouths are that it sounds to them like the singer is standing right in the middle. With good imaging, a center channel is not needed, at all.

Ohlsson's made quite a few of the finest Motown-recordings ever made:

There was a thing at the AES called "When Vinyl Ruled' - this was incredible. I hope to heaven that they let them do it again but I can see how a lot of manufacturers would not let them do it again. They set up a state of the art 1962 control room and played back a bunch of old 3-track safety masters from that era. The sound destroyed everything at the show. I mean, it was a no-brainer better than anything we're doing now, it's sickening.
http://www.tapeop.com/articles/30/bob-olhsson/

The fact that we're satisfied with a phantom image doesn't mean it can't be improved. I have a center-image that has people comment it without fail - but I have also heard the 3-channel alternative, which makes what I have pale in comparison. Two-channel is an inferior compromise, imposed upon us by tech-limitations in the early 60s.
 
They set up a state of the art 1962 control room and played back a bunch of old 3-track safety masters from that era. The sound destroyed everything at the show. I mean, it was a no-brainer better than anything we're doing now, it's sickening.

Well all you need to do to relive the experience is use a decent surround set-up and replay them. As an example get out the SACD's of the 3 channel Living Presense recordings and have a listen. They surely do sound fantastic.

Rob:)
 

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