Din or RCA output?

[jeromelang]

If you are offered a choice of DIN output or RCA output for your new tonearm, how would you choose?

What are the theoretical sonic and practical benefits of DIN-to-RCA phono cables?

 

[mtemur]

I would choose DIN because most tonearm cables are offered in DIN to RCA. If you choose RCA that doesn’t enable you using any interconnect. Low capacitance, low impedance and proper shielding is necessary. You need to find a RCA to RCA tonearm cable which limits choices.

 

[JackD201]

I'd go with DIN for the convenience of having the ground on the tonearm end already bundled.

 

[jeromelang]

Do cable manufacturers check the directionality of the bundled ground wire on their din-to-rca phono cables?

 

[daytona600]

XLR fully balanced. Mc cartridges are balanced

 

[JackD201]

XLR fully balanced. Mc cartridges are balanced

I actually use DIN to XLR (Phantom E) and captured to XLR (SAT), I'm trying to figure out how to cable my EMT Banana.

 

[Kjetil]

Do cable manufacturers check the directionality of the bundled ground wire on their din-to-rca phono cables?

Directionality of a ground wire? What does it mean?

To the OP question: I'd choose the MDIN connector. It is a better connector for a true differential signal path to the sut or phono amp than the (quite horrible, why on earth did it become a standard) RCA.

 

[jeromelang]

Ground wire, or wires, used for grounding purposes, have to be checked for directionality, as the direction in which the wire is being connected - from the source component to the ground destination - can greatly affect soundstaging and frequency extension at either ends.

 

[Kjetil]

Are you saying that swapping the ends of a single ground wire does that?

 

[jeromelang]

Can't make it any more clearer than that

 

[Kjetil]

Ok.

 

[poonbean]

Thought I'd use this thread to ask if a countinuos run from cartridge to male RCAs is prefered over a DIN connection at the tonearm.
For example, Kuzma offers a continuous run to male rca or din connection.
Thanks

 

[rossb]

Everything else being equal, a continuous run of the same cable without a break will (in theory) sound better. The addition of two connectors and a break in the cable can only make it worse.

Having said that, there are reasons why you may prefer a DIN connection. If there is the possibility you may want to use balanced cables with XLR connectors, then the DIN connector preserves that ability. Similarly, if you are not familiar with the stock cable and may want to try other cables, again the DIN connector would be preferred.

I had two versions of the Audio Origami PU7, one with a continuous run of cable to RCA plugs, and the other with a DIN connector and my choice of cables. I much preferred the DIN version, because the cables I used sounded much better than the stock Van Damme cable that was hard wired to the arm.

But if you are confident you will never want to use XLR plugs or change the cable, the continuous run would be better. I have owned a few Kuzma arms including the 4Point and Stogi Ref, which IIRC used Cardas cable which was very good. If I was buying a Kuzma arm today and had no plans to use a balanced phono stage then I would happily use the stock cable without a DIN connector.

 

[Holmz]

Everything else being equal, a continuous run of the same cable without a break will (in theory) sound better. The addition of two connectors and a break in the cable can only make it worse.
…

In theory going up to a larger conductor as soon as possible after the tonearm will also be a benefit.

If the tail coming off the system is going into a SUT or phono stage that is close by then great.
If it is ways down the rack, then it might be better to use a block and jump to a proper sized cable.

 

[mtemur]

Thought I'd use this thread to ask if a countinuos run from cartridge to male RCAs is prefered over a DIN connection at the tonearm.
For example, Kuzma offers a continuous run to male rca or din connection.
Thanks

The right way to do it is to terminate the tonearm wires with a DIN connector and use a thick, proper tonearm cable to connect the tonearm to the SUT or phono stage. Thin tonearm wires are not meant to be used outside the arm as an interconnect. The idea of a continuous, uninterrupted cable is nonsense.

If a continuous cable is desired, then the thin tonearm wires should at least be soldered to a proper tonearm cable or interconnect at the bottom of the tonearm.

 

[poonbean]

The right way to do it is to terminate the tonearm wires with a DIN connector and use a thick, proper tonearm cable to connect the tonearm to the SUT or phono stage. Thin tonearm wires are not meant to be used outside the arm as an interconnect. The idea of a continuous, uninterrupted cable is nonsense.

If a continuous cable is desired, then the thin tonearm wires should at least be soldered to a proper tonearm cable or interconnect at the bottom of the tonearm.

Agreed. My further research also confirms your guidance.
In short, the super thin tonearm wire creates a lot of impedance. Transitioning to thicker interconnect wire within the interconnect dowstream of the DIN reduces impedance, which is beneficial to signal strength, integrity, and is particularly important to a transimpedance phono stage (which I use) and cartridges in general. In addition, the design and purpose of the tonearm wire in the arm tube itself differs significantly from the design of the interconnect outside the arm tube, which among many variables needs to shield against EMF and RF and triboelectic effects. Finally, as I understand it, while the solder connections at both sides of the DIN are less than desirable, these downside effects are dwarfed by the variables previously stated - and - the pin to socket connection in the DIN if done with like materials (say gold on both) yields comparatively nomiminal problems as well.
Based on all that, I'm definitely going wih DIN - thank you for all the responses!

 

[Kjetil]

Q: Why do we call it DIN when it’s not?

 

[poonbean]

Per wikipedia
“The DIN connector is an electrical signal connector that was standardized by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN), the German Institute for Standards, in the mid 1950s, initially with three pins for mono, but when stereo connections and gear appeared in the late 1950s, versions with five pins or more were made.”

 

[Holmz]

Q: Why do we call it DIN when it’s not?

din /dĭn/

noun​

1. A jumble of loud, usually discordant sounds. synonym: noise.
   Similar: noise
2. Loud, confused, harsh noise; a loud, continuous, rattling or clanging sound; clamor; roar.
   Similar: clamorroar

intransitive verb​

1. To stun with deafening noise.