ch precision P1 vs Kondo ge1
- Thread starter gian60
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Dear Sir,
I understand you are quite familiar with both CH P1 and JPA 66, could you characterize the sound of the two. Putting the tailoring features of both units aside, what are the sonic strengths of each.
Best regards,
Tang
Hi Tang,
I don't have my P1 yet. I've only heard it once under show conditions so I can't really compare. I will say that the JPA 66 is an excellent preamp (yes it's actually a full function pre not just a phono). I've used it both direct to amps and through (custom) fixed outputs to my pre. I prefer the fixed outputs. The P1 was likewise excellent in an all CH system driving Marten speakers. Analog front end was an Air Force One Premium, SAT arm and TD Ti cartridge. The sound never broke up even on peaks that were reading over 2 kilowatts on the M1's meters.
I don't have my P1 yet. I've only heard it once under show conditions so I can't really compare. I will say that the JPA 66 is an excellent preamp (yes it's actually a full function pre not just a phono). I've used it both direct to amps and through (custom) fixed outputs to my pre. I prefer the fixed outputs. The P1 was likewise excellent in an all CH system driving Marten speakers. Analog front end was an Air Force One Premium, SAT arm and TD Ti cartridge. The sound never broke up even on peaks that were reading over 2 kilowatts on the M1's meters.
Thank you Jack.
I am a bit surprise reading how solid stage P1 can sound almost like tube. And from your comment comparing to JPA 66, you did not mention any typical distinction of tube/ solid stage. I trust you guys ears. Very interesting phono indeed. I did a/b Soulution top phono 755 with Ayon tube phono in my system. The difference was quite obvious.
Best regards,
Tang
What I love about tubes most is the seemingly limitless resolution when done right. Certain DHTs do this extremely well and in the case of the JPA 66 its bank of 12ax7s (I'm loaded with 3 matched pairs of Tele 803s) certainly does that too. I'm not so much into the bloom or warmth because my room and my speakers (and choice of carts) already allow for big tone should I call for it. What I don't like about SS not done well enough is opacity in the upper midrange, lower treble due to a constriction of resolution, a fuzziness so to speak. It doesn't help that this is the frequency band that we are by nature most sensitive at and where much of formants reside. Done poorly, its not just fuzziness, its a pervasive layer of grit and grain. Music becomes a bit more boring and gray at best, irritating to some degree at worst. Not a situation I like having when I'm exploring new music I have yet to form some emotional connection to via memories. For me lesser tube design's faults I can more easily listen past, maybe some hum, lack of control or rounding off of transients. The JPA is very quiet and linear my only quibble being the variable output that needs some maintenance now and then as is the case with many a potentiometer. It is not a "tubey" sounding unit in the classic sense in that it is not euphonic or ripe.
Definitely, prefer the Ayon Spheris in my system sir. More alive, vivid, rythmic, energetic than 755. I dont think 755 married very well with my Conquistador pre. I heard 755 in all out Soulution system and it sounded excellent in Soulution way.
Best regardds,
Tang
I am just integrating the P1 in my system.
As I had the Kondo M7 with SFZ I like to agree on gian60 s findings. Additional the P1 can host carts like the vdh Colibri with high DC resistance (does not work with transformers)
The P1 is a great performer and can satisfy tubelovers as well, the combination with my Koda Takumi K10 MkII is great!
As I had the Kondo M7 with SFZ I like to agree on gian60 s findings. Additional the P1 can host carts like the vdh Colibri with high DC resistance (does not work with transformers)
The P1 is a great performer and can satisfy tubelovers as well, the combination with my Koda Takumi K10 MkII is great!
@Ron
depending on you point of view and your personal expectations.
The IO is unique in the way to play with overall dynamics in a powerful way.
The IO has definitely "meat on the bones" and brings you immediately to the heart of the music.
Very difficult to beat the IO in this parameters.
But...,
The IO concept is a full tube amplification, up to over 70db
If you have a low output MC (like < 0.4mv) , you will have a noticeable Noise floor.
With my current high efficiency speakers, I try to reduce noise floor.
If you are frequently comparing and changing Cartridges, you will find out, that it is complicated to change jumpers on the back side of the IO
If you have carts like Benz Lp-s, which like something like 403 ohm, you will find out, that you cannot give the best impedance to the cart, as the IO (as most) phono stages, have only a limited selection of preinstalled resistors.
The P1 has a low noise floor (but it is not the lowest noise floor I know), the P1 has on the voltage path 500 different resistors to choose.
Looking a little bit deeper into the Cartridge coil technology, the way the wire is done shows, that the most MC Carts have a minimal different coil wire length for the left and the right channel.
As an example, my Colibri Carts do have 1/3 of a round more on one channel. As we are talking only a few (mostly less than 5) rounds for the coil wire, in principle you never will give to a MC cart the best matching impedance, as left and right channel should be slightly different.
Juergen Ueltee, the developing mastermind behind the vdh Grail Phonostage showed me this facts with some measurements. So he decided to choose a current amplification stage for the Grail , which is MC Cartridge impedance independent.
This is a rarely chosen amplification method for a phono stage, but the P1 is doing the same on MC1 and MC2 input.
P1 (and the Grail) are giving to any (low DC / Coil resistance , < 40ohm) MC Cartridge the optimal load for both channels (as the current stage is load DC resistance independent )
Playing music with the P1 gives you the feeling, that it is just right, I assume, that this is coming from the logic, that both channels do have exactly the same amplification.
I know , that this might be a minor effect, but if you are in High End Carts and your gear is on the level, that you can hear the difference in torque of your tonearm screws, this minor effect can make the difference.
Tang is using the P1 as well (with external PSU) and a tube phono stage as well.
May be he will agree to the "just right" listening impression of the P1
Others do different, but the "just right" of the P1 is impressive to me.
But give me some more hours with the P1, I will learn more about the character.
depending on you point of view and your personal expectations.
The IO is unique in the way to play with overall dynamics in a powerful way.
The IO has definitely "meat on the bones" and brings you immediately to the heart of the music.
Very difficult to beat the IO in this parameters.
But...,
The IO concept is a full tube amplification, up to over 70db
If you have a low output MC (like < 0.4mv) , you will have a noticeable Noise floor.
With my current high efficiency speakers, I try to reduce noise floor.
If you are frequently comparing and changing Cartridges, you will find out, that it is complicated to change jumpers on the back side of the IO
If you have carts like Benz Lp-s, which like something like 403 ohm, you will find out, that you cannot give the best impedance to the cart, as the IO (as most) phono stages, have only a limited selection of preinstalled resistors.
The P1 has a low noise floor (but it is not the lowest noise floor I know), the P1 has on the voltage path 500 different resistors to choose.
Looking a little bit deeper into the Cartridge coil technology, the way the wire is done shows, that the most MC Carts have a minimal different coil wire length for the left and the right channel.
As an example, my Colibri Carts do have 1/3 of a round more on one channel. As we are talking only a few (mostly less than 5) rounds for the coil wire, in principle you never will give to a MC cart the best matching impedance, as left and right channel should be slightly different.
Juergen Ueltee, the developing mastermind behind the vdh Grail Phonostage showed me this facts with some measurements. So he decided to choose a current amplification stage for the Grail , which is MC Cartridge impedance independent.
This is a rarely chosen amplification method for a phono stage, but the P1 is doing the same on MC1 and MC2 input.
P1 (and the Grail) are giving to any (low DC / Coil resistance , < 40ohm) MC Cartridge the optimal load for both channels (as the current stage is load DC resistance independent )
Playing music with the P1 gives you the feeling, that it is just right, I assume, that this is coming from the logic, that both channels do have exactly the same amplification.
I know , that this might be a minor effect, but if you are in High End Carts and your gear is on the level, that you can hear the difference in torque of your tonearm screws, this minor effect can make the difference.
Tang is using the P1 as well (with external PSU) and a tube phono stage as well.
May be he will agree to the "just right" listening impression of the P1
Others do different, but the "just right" of the P1 is impressive to me.
But give me some more hours with the P1, I will learn more about the character.
Hi 'shakti',
Did you ever compare the CH P1 (ideally with X1) with the Koda Takumi MC ONE phono stage along with your Koda Takumi K10 Mk2 Pre-Amp ?
And if so, what were your findings ?
I am also just wondering and thinking aloud how a CH Precision 1 system (phono stage with X1, pre-amp with X1 and say a M1.1 power amp) would compare with a Robert Koda System (MC One phono stage, K10 MK2 or K15 Ex pre-amp and K70 MK2 power amps) ?
Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to compare directly the mentioned gear.
But the named brands do have a different sound DNA, so the difference in listening will follow their philosophy.
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