Can one find realism in box speakers that cost less than $150K after experiencing dynamics of horns and horn-type speakers?

[Folsom]

Pretty much every part, wiring and Ebony (front panel and horn) vs. standard finished in the Roma Triode is upgraded in the Roma Triode vs the Roma.

Eh... not feeling that much of an upgrade. It’s kinda silly you need to spend THAT much to be able to use FleaWatts that start getting world class for a few thousand. That’s what one of the best things about Triodes, subjective taste might land you on an amp at any price range. Choosing SET friendly speakers normally can help one save some $, and be able to invest more into TT, phono, room, etc. (unless your favorite SET is ML3)

Spatial, a very modest brand, offers Triode versions in a horizontal way for those that prefer that kind of amp. I think that makes more sense.

 

[Rhapsody]

Eh... not feeling that much of an upgrade. It’s kinda silly you need to spend THAT much to be able to use FleaWatts that start getting world class for a few thousand. That’s what one of the best things about Triodes, subjective taste might land you on an amp at any price range. Choosing SET friendly speakers normally can help one save some $, and be able to invest more into TT, phono, room, etc. (unless your favorite SET is ML3)

Spatial, a very modest brand, offers Triode versions in a horizontal way for those that prefer that kind of amp. I think that makes more sense.

That's great, Spatial is a very nice product. If that is the path you prefer then great for you. Of course no one has to spend that much for Diesis speakers if they prefer not to.

There are many buyers that have already have chosen to spend their $$$ on the Diesis speakers vs. many much less expensive speakers and I can tell you these Diesis owner are very happy campers. Lot's of options out there, golden age of audio regarding availalbe products, something for everyone.

Btw, my favorite SET is a 1990 Kondo Kyoeun, 2A3s 4 watts/channel, drives my Romas to my liking in a large space.

 

[Folsom]

That is kind if my point, you have a favorite SET. Others just want to use new tech. I just can’t quite grasp the need for such huge vertical differences. I think more speakers that are sensitive enough for SET is better, than proclaiming it to be the end-all. It’s harder to sell certain types of speakers if their sensitivity isn’t nice and high - particularly if they require a decent sized room.

 

[Rhapsody]

That is kind if my point, you have a favorite SET. Others just want to use new tech. I just can’t quite grasp the need for such huge vertical differences. I think more speakers that are sensitive enough for SET is better, than proclaiming it to be the end-all. It’s harder to sell certain types of speakers if their sensitivity isn’t nice and high - particularly if they require a decent sized room.

I don't know if I quite get what you mean with people wanting to use "new tech". Do you mean new SET's? I like new SET's as well. I LOVE efficiency, regardless of the cost. It could be ultra expensive or dirt cheap. 20 years ago I lived with Avantgarde Trios with 4 BH's, for 10 years. Not saying an end to all or anything other than they were 110db+ efficient and we used to use a 1 watt David Berning headphone amp on them and float the music. I've always been amazed by effiiency in speakers and if one can do it really inexpensively then that's great.

With the Diesis speakers, I love several things. I love the efficiency, I love the open baffle, I love the horn,I love 15" woofers, I LOVE the aesthetics, I love that they weigh 250 lbs and the frames are made of cement.

Most of all I love Giuseppe Gabbarini, the desinger and owner of Diesis Audio. He's a gem that does everything for the love of music and not to make $$$. The $$$ are secondary to Giuseppe and I find that rare and a beautiful thing.

I also love the Magico M2's which are a 180. I can also probably name 10 other speakers that I don't sell that I love as well. I'm a speaker lover.....guitars too.

 

[parkcaka]

They look like toroidal inductors, not air-core and certainly not air-core ribbons.

There are good air-core and not so good. Jensencapacitors.com is the best I have found. I would put them up against Mundorf any day. This removes the magnetic hysteresis and saturation issues of iron-core inductors.

Steve N.

Dear Steve. I just asked Guiseppe and he answered (yes he always answers) "all the inductors air-core with very low resistance and are made specifically for Diesis ... Also the capacitors are made to our specifications, we have had years of experience with all the best manufacturers (including Mundorf) but our specifications are even tighter".

Cheers my friend.

 

[Folsom]

I don't know if I quite get what you mean with people wanting to use "new tech". Do you mean new SET's? I like new SET's as well. I LOVE efficiency, regardless of the cost. It could be ultra expensive or dirt cheap. 20 years ago I lived with Avantgarde Trios with 4 BH's, for 10 years. Not saying an end to all or anything other than they were 110db+ efficient and we used to use a 1 watt David Berning headphone amp on them and float the music. I've always been amazed by effiiency in speakers and if one can do it really inexpensively then that's great.

With the Diesis speakers, I love several things. I love the efficiency, I love the open baffle, I love the horn, I LOVE the aesthetics, I love that they weigh 250 lbs and the frames are made of cement. Most of all I love Giuseppe Gabbarini, the desinger and owner of Diesis Audio. He's a gem that does everything for the love of music and not to make $$$. The $$$ are secondary to Giuseppe and I find that rare and a beautiful thing.

I also love the Magico M2's which are a 180. I can also probably name 10 other speakers that I don't sell that I love as well. I'm a speaker lover.....guitars too.

I think they’re very appealing speakers, in nearly all ways.

New tech = not SET (or tube).

Do you love efficiency or sensitivity? Both?

A triode capable speaker is sensitive for low power but has efficiency in that the impedance is fairly flat and the crossover’s reactivity also won’t burn off all the stored joules of the amp in one go. I think it’s best to have several speakers designed like that, not just the most expensive.

 

[Rhapsody]

I think they’re very appealing speakers, in nearly all ways.

New tech = not SET (or tube).

Do you love efficiency or sensitivity? Both?

A triode capable speaker is sensitive for low power but has efficiency in that the impedance is fairly flat and the crossover’s reactivity also won’t burn off all the stored joules of the amp in one go. I think it’s best to have several speakers designed like that, not just the most expensive.

Yes, I personally like efficiency and as well as sensitivity. I would say that the Diesis speakers sound great to me, as I said with the 2A3s, or the ONgaku with it's 211 or even PP that I use form Jadis. BUT my favorite over all sound with the Diesis speakers is with the new Integrated amplifier from Diesis, the Evento. It is a hybrid with a tube input and SS output, with available DAC and phono stage.

We used the Evento at Munich/Marriott and I heard things from the RT that I had not experieced prior. As in riveting and close to alive especially with drums. Love to push the two 15" woofers. I think 15" woofers move air differently than smaller drivers. Although we also played the Caput Mundi and it puzzled me because I thought th CM sounded as good as the RT in many respects, a little less nuance but still had the riveting and alive sound.

http://www.diesisaudio.com/en/product/evento-20-11/

 

[tima]

Tima,

Please come by for another visit.....

Thanks for the invite. If I get to NY, I will. Are you the Diesis US distributor?

 

[tima]

Hi Ron, I’ve really only heard Avantguarde before in any kind of a listening situation, not including what I heard at RMAF a couple years back. It was Avantguarde that made me sit up and take notice of how far horns had come. But the Diesis approach with horn + open-baffle that was unique (to me).

I was gobsmacked when I heard the Roma, not in a way where you think it is so amazingly different at first, but once you start listening it is clear these are extremely special speakers. I haven’t heard anything for very long while where I came home and thought my system was a little broken... it took several weeks of not listening to my system (vacation) before I stopped comparing my Alexia to the Roma.

Could you offer some of that Alexia-Roma comparison? Alexia 1, right?

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks for the invite. If I get to NY, I will. Are you the Diesis US distributor?

Yes, Rhapsody is the Americas Diesis representative.

We have the Ludos, Aura, Roma and Roma Triode available for demonstration and the Diesis integrated Evento on it's way.

Bob Visintainer
Rhapsody Music & Cinema
27 West 24th Street STE506
New York, NY 10010
212-229-1842
Site- Rhapsody.audio

 

[Bobvin]

Could you offer some of that Alexia-Roma comparison? Alexia 1, right?

OK, a little personal exposure might help (or not). As a young guy I admit to smoking too much pot. Now that it is legal in Oregon and Washington I admit to enjoying a toke now and then... when I ride my bike where there is no traffic, in the mountains, or along the great beaches here in Oregon. I also enjoy a toke occasionally, with a glass of wine, when I listen to music. I just get totally into the music, and the Alexia with my current rig are extremely enjoyable delivering range and dynamics with visceral impact that feels like music to me. Sober, the system is great, with a toke and a glass of wine I become absorbed.

When heard Roma @ Bob’s place in NYC, it was mid-day. I almost never listen to music in the daytime. I prefer the dim lighting in my room, in the evening. Well, mid-day in a well lit room the Roma speakers had me hearing music, with no perceptual enhancements, that was as good as being a little high in a darkened room — even better. Air, placement of instruments, tonality, depth and width of soundstage, dynamics, everything we tend to value in hi-end audio, nuance, delicacy, emotional engagement, but significantly ease and flow. Box speakers, in comparison, seem like they are working hard to squeeze out the sound, i.e. they feel forced. I greatly enjoy my Alexia, they are exceptional speakers. I heard the WAMM in a private invitation with myself and one audio buddy with me. The Diesis Roma drew me in instantly, made me pay attention to the music. The WAMMs forced me to listen in a technical “what does 3/4 million dollars get me” kind of way. I was happy (?) to learn the Roma were less than the price of Wilson Alexx, and I’d have zero hesitancy choosing Roma at $100k to any box speaker anywhere near double the price.

 

[tima]

Thanks Bob, nice report!

 

[christoph]

After hearing and loving those Diesis Speakers in Munich, I started to have ideas (rather brainfarts ) on how to improve the bass on my Living Voice Air Scouts
A Diesis - Living Voice Frankenstein Speaker, maybe even semi-active in the bass section to be able to use a 46 flea amp for the mids and treble with it

Sorry for OT

 

[Audiophile Bill]

After hearing and loving those Diesis Speakers in Munich, I started to have ideas (rather brainfarts ) on how to improve the bass on my Living Voice Air Scouts
A Diesis - Living Voice Frankenstein Speaker, maybe even semi-active in the bass section to be able to use a 46 flea amp for the mids and treble with it

Sorry for OT

Will text you now, Chris.

 

[morricab]

After hearing and loving those Diesis Speakers in Munich, I started to have ideas (rather brainfarts ) on how to improve the bass on my Living Voice Air Scouts
A Diesis - Living Voice Frankenstein Speaker, maybe even semi-active in the bass section to be able to use a 46 flea amp for the mids and treble with it

Sorry for OT

I can help... let’s talk about it

 

[KeithR]

Here is the Spatial Audio hybrid horn/OB design mentioned above:

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/01/spatial-audio-x1-uniwave-dipole.html

I heard them at LAAS a few years ago, but seemed to lack transparency.

 

[Folsom]

Here is the Spatial Audio hybrid horn/OB design mentioned above:

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/01/spatial-audio-x1-uniwave-dipole.html

I heard them at LAAS a few years ago, but seemed to lack transparency.

Those are the active DSP version I think. I was talking about the passive ones but, it seems they don’t have the Triode listed anymore.

 

[Folsom]

Found it, not sure if available?

Notice the sensitivity isn’t super high but the impedance average is 12ohm so it can easily be driven by as little as 4w. That’s not so important as I think a lateral offering of a Triode capable speaker is for people with different tastes.


http://www.spatialaudio.us/m3-triode-master

 

[ddk]

Once one hears the startling, life-like dynamics of a horn or horn-type system, the more fake box speakers sound. They may sound good, but just not real once you have that experience and know what's possible in terms of dynamics...The box speaker technologies under $150K sound as slow as molasses to me.

What do you guys think?

I've been looking at this thread with amusement $150k a lot of money and for that you better get a pair of speakers that does it all and will last you a lifetime. Personally even at $15k the speaker better sound natural and lifelike otherwise why bother?

david

 

[RogerD]

I've been looking at this thread with amusement $150k a lot of money and for that you better get a pair of speakers that does it all and will last you a lifetime. Personally even at $15k the speaker better sound natural and lifelike otherwise why bother?

david

LMAO! Thanks David for giving me a reason to post.