Beyerdynamic vs Sennheiser vs Stax
- Thread starter Gregadd
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Very informative, thanks Gregadd - I own a pair of AKG K701 and B&W in-ear phones, both good sounding as well - the Stax looks tempting but way expensive considering the amp needed.
Just recently got Etymotic HF5 from Amazon $99. Stone bargain, use it as mobile with ipod, tends to make it difficult to pay higher amounts for higher quality. For double isolation, use it with noise canceling Sony earmuffs with detachable cord worn over them, another C note or so, good for planes, trains and noisy subways.
More upscale, Ultrasone Edition 8, fantastic sound in closed dynamic headset, expensive at over 1200, but can make ipod sound hi end and scales up with better sources and amplification.
Ultimate non mobile home setup: Stax, just about any of the older ones, use a transformer box to attach to your favorite home amplifier.
Used Stax 3/3n/5n/ can be hunted normal bias for about a hundred, sometimes less. Normal bias Lambda for a couple of hundred, outstanding midrange.
The more expensive electrostats Stax or Senn, can go into the thousands or even ten thousand for amp and headphone. I think there is definitely diminishing returns for audiophile status object there when getting into Stax SR 007 or 009 etc.
I recently upgraded the transformers on my Stax box DIY with new production dynaco tranformers. My Stax SR 507 developed perforations in the mylar. I replaced the mylar myself, again DIY, and use them with normal bias. So far, my re-mylared, normal bias 507's are the most transparent, hugest, clearest, deepest most fantastic headphones I have ever heard when using them with my DIY upgraded tranformer box and 300b amps. The new mylar improved the 507's hugely over stock, go figure, I think the electrostatic solution I used must be responsible with 14 micron mylar.
More upscale, Ultrasone Edition 8, fantastic sound in closed dynamic headset, expensive at over 1200, but can make ipod sound hi end and scales up with better sources and amplification.
Ultimate non mobile home setup: Stax, just about any of the older ones, use a transformer box to attach to your favorite home amplifier.
Used Stax 3/3n/5n/ can be hunted normal bias for about a hundred, sometimes less. Normal bias Lambda for a couple of hundred, outstanding midrange.
The more expensive electrostats Stax or Senn, can go into the thousands or even ten thousand for amp and headphone. I think there is definitely diminishing returns for audiophile status object there when getting into Stax SR 007 or 009 etc.
I recently upgraded the transformers on my Stax box DIY with new production dynaco tranformers. My Stax SR 507 developed perforations in the mylar. I replaced the mylar myself, again DIY, and use them with normal bias. So far, my re-mylared, normal bias 507's are the most transparent, hugest, clearest, deepest most fantastic headphones I have ever heard when using them with my DIY upgraded tranformer box and 300b amps. The new mylar improved the 507's hugely over stock, go figure, I think the electrostatic solution I used must be responsible with 14 micron mylar.
Had no idea you could DIY replace the mylar in Stax! Good to know just in case one of them in my collection breaks.
I recognize the quality and the resolution of Stax, I just don't like the sound of them much. I'm a subjectivist 
. The AKGs are very nice, but a bit dry. Don't care for closed backs much, period. The best of them (I like the Dennons) lose the resonance, but just never get quite right for my ears. Some of the Beyers are very good, but I still like the big Senns best. Maybe its just that I'm used to them.
Haven't heard the 800s, but the 600s and the 650s are just a remarkable pair of transducers for such short money. The 600s feel closer. The 650s go a bit deeper, sound further back. Second table back at the Village Vanguard vs. a box at the opera. A matter of taste, really, but first you have to like the big, warm (yes, said that word), deep presence of the big Senns. I do. They will work well straight out of the headphone jack of a good pre or DAC/pre, because they're not real fussy about a low output impedance. But if you want a separate amp, I can't think of a lot of reasons to reach any higher than a Graham Slee Solo. Sennheiser didn't. That's the amp they used when they were developing/voicing the 650s. The 650s will run you about $500, the Slee about $1,000. It'll sound like six figures. And the Slee is very flat, so if you decide to collect cans, you'll know what each pair really sounds like.
Tim
. The AKGs are very nice, but a bit dry. Don't care for closed backs much, period. The best of them (I like the Dennons) lose the resonance, but just never get quite right for my ears. Some of the Beyers are very good, but I still like the big Senns best. Maybe its just that I'm used to them. Haven't heard the 800s, but the 600s and the 650s are just a remarkable pair of transducers for such short money. The 600s feel closer. The 650s go a bit deeper, sound further back. Second table back at the Village Vanguard vs. a box at the opera. A matter of taste, really, but first you have to like the big, warm (yes, said that word), deep presence of the big Senns. I do. They will work well straight out of the headphone jack of a good pre or DAC/pre, because they're not real fussy about a low output impedance. But if you want a separate amp, I can't think of a lot of reasons to reach any higher than a Graham Slee Solo. Sennheiser didn't. That's the amp they used when they were developing/voicing the 650s. The 650s will run you about $500, the Slee about $1,000. It'll sound like six figures. And the Slee is very flat, so if you decide to collect cans, you'll know what each pair really sounds like.
Tim
Only the SR 507 because of the way it is constructed in discrete layers and can be opened up, and the mylar can be removed and replaced. I can't vouch for other Stax, I think some of them are glued tight and/or modular and can't be done that way.
Replacing the mylar was a "hail Mary" DIY effort that I didn't think would work. I was surprised that I got a headphone superior to the original, the most detailed, rich and transparent earphone I have heard, with a seemingly boundless soundstage with my 300b amps and upgraded transformer box. The revamped 507 seems to go an octave lower than my normal bias Lambda, and challenges the bass on my dynamic Ultrasone Ed 8. It also makes the traditional normal bias Lambda, normal bias 5n, and the dynamic Ultrasone Ed8 sound a bit crude by comparison. However, the 507 works best now with normal bias rather than the original pro bias.
I heard the 007 and the 009 at the head fi show. Thought the 009 was detailed, but a bit etched and edgy with blue hawaii amp. The 007 just sounded inefficient and slightly thick, as did the Senn HE60 with a Liquid Lightening amp.
I am also glad that I have a Stax headphone I can repair myself, since there isn't much else that can go to wrong with them, because repairing them through Stax amounts to buying a new headseat.
The Senn 580's for short money are nearly as good as 600/650, got a pair for $125 delivered new, but bashed the headband, they are a backup pair now. I agree they sound great for the price. I heard the 800's at the show through my Manley neo 300b, I thought they sounded really good, but hard to compare with the older brethren, they are better than the 580's.
The 580s are functionally identical to the 600s. I didn't mention them because they're no longer in production. The 580s are what I have, and have had for many years. I'm sure they've been technically bettered, but they're still a great listen. I prefer them to the Etymotics and audio Technicas I've bought since, and have not been tempted by the AKGs, Beyers, etc, I've heard.
Tim
I recall my first foray into headphones. Remember the Koss Pro4A? If you played the balance knob it was if your brain was being sucked out your ealoble. I can't remember the model # but along came Sennheiser with thier open air design. it was a revelation. I think I would have to go open air. There is no need to go mobile. I'll just high an mp3 from the teens.
I owned a pair of Koss. Heavy green metal things with fluid-filled pads. Sound like the 4As? Closed-back has come a long way since those days and some are very good, but I still prefer open. If you don't need to keep the sound to yourself, it's the obvious choice. If you do, IEMs should be seriously considered.
Tim
One of the all-time worst top 10 lists I've ever seen, in any category. Most of that stuff is pure crap.
P
i investigated headphones in Jan 2011 with top level perfromance in mind, and ended up buying some used headphones to dip my toe in, and then ordering the Headamp BHSE (Blue Hawaii Special Edition) electrostatic amplifier. later i ordered the new Stax 009 headphones.
this combo proved to be pretty amazing compared to any other headphone combo i tried....and if the $12k list price is not too steep then it's a no-brainer. it was the only headphone combination that i considered truely not veiled and favorably compared to my 2-channel system. none others got very close.
i did sell all my headphone gear to help pay for new amps and speakers.
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