best cost no object, cables

CKKeung

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Jun 18, 2011
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Hello guys!

Did you see the launch of Crystal Connect? They launched the Art Series cables, it are made with a proprietary conductor, Infinite Crystal Silver.
https://www.crystal-hifi.com/products/da-vinci/
A good friend of mine and I borrowed the CrystalConnect Art Series Da Vinci cables last week and tried them on 4 hi-end systems in Hong Kong.

I will post a short review of the Da Vinci powercord and xlr interconnect very soon.
Stay tuned please.
;)
 

QuadDiffusor

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howiebrou

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Jun 29, 2012
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A good friend of mine and I borrowed the CrystalConnect Art Series Da Vinci cables last week and tried them on 4 hi-end systems in Hong Kong.

I will post a short review of the Da Vinci powercord and xlr interconnect very soon.
Stay tuned please.
;)
Tease.
 
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plasmod3

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Aug 28, 2020
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i have always wondered....if the wiring inside a component would carry more weight than the wires connecting separate components. and if a good pair of cables that end up with a 4% tin solder compound... how does that actually work for the greater picture...:) lol just being philosophical:)

But indeed how many cost no object cables are out there .....not solving the simple intermediate materials used. for eg - a siltech triple crown cable with mono x silver ...crimped at the end with a crimp that is not of consistent metallurgy - then attached to a furutech connector that is copper which has a rhodium plating layer over.....there is hardly any metallurgy consistency from source to end component...is that the definition of cost no object? A siltech triple crown is certainly not cheap. Am no specialist but always amazed by what i see :)
 
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Sablon Audio

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May 22, 2015
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That’s a prescient observation Plasmod3. The best connector is no connector and upgrading internal wiring often brings pleasing gains. I would also choose a direct physical connection over a soldered one. That said, few are willing to modify their equipment and potentially lose both practicality and warranty.
 

BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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A good external cable will make the internal wiring operate better. The better the internal wiring then the better it will work with better cables.
 

plasmod3

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Agree - it's going to be a symbiotic relationship.

I have had a look at a 'few' components before . The problem bluefox is in the construction. Most use circuit boards to simplify wiring - in that case what is the metallurgy of that used within the circuit boards? If indeed cost is of no object - the circuitboards should be our first point of discontent. The fact that circuitboards are what they are even in high end esoteric stuff means that in my mind ( not generalized to everyone ie) that for quite a few things out there despite the cost we as consumers can be told that this is a cost no object build but yet the rationality and effort to ensure that is indeed the case is not necessarily commiserate on the manufacturer's end. ' Cost no object' becomes a marketing term more than a true indicator of what the words mean eventually.

Believe it or not, despite the definition of a cost no object item ; manufactures still look at the cost per component to decide on what goes in there. Some manufacturers make the effort to get custom components made to their spec and i really respect them for the effort + support them by buying their makes; quite a lot other manufacturers do not take that approach - for eg look at the discussions on Zanden preamps as discussed in the forums here. I am not saying they dont sound good , & i do respect those manufacturers and their arts - but how does cost no object for a preamp translate into cheap off the shelf components?

In the higher sphere we all know that there is less bang for the buck , but we spend the money anyway to tease out that last grain of performance there. This is a discussion less so about affordability or the ability to spend but truly when we say 'cost no object' it will be nice to see the phrase used true to its nature rather than a 'me-too' moment.

Just my 2 cents , but something within tells me i have already overextended myself on this haha:) Lets all enjoy the music at the end of the day
 
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highstream

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Nov 16, 2013
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Recently, I had an umbilical power cord for a preamp made (privately) by a cable maker using the same high quality silver-plated copper that he uses in building headphone amps, which apparently are highly regarded. Even though the builder (along with the preamp's developer) didn't believe it could make any difference in sound -- textbook engineer training -- which seems strange given that he chose it especially for his builds, it produced a night and day difference over the supplied cord. That's the same experience I had with when Dave of ZenWave Audio built me a short 5v line using Neotech UPOCC copper/teflon, to run between a Paul Hynes LPS and an iFi s/pdif iPurifier, vs. both the supplied OEM cord and Hynes' silver one.

Speaking of that preamp, a Supratek Chardonnay, this discussion got me thinking of the criticisms made of Mick Maloney, Mr. Supratek, for his wiring practices. Those criticisms are not only for his rejection of using printed circuit boards (PCB), despite their use being ubiquitous in high-end components these days, but also for his rejection of point-to-point neat (side by side) wiring in favor of point-to-point "spaghetti wiring." See, for instance, the bashing he takes at https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/127427-supratek-preamp-owner-opinionsdiscussion/, and his response at http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com/2019/04/wiring.html. When one has had a listen to his preamps, it's hard to argue with his findings.
 
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abeidrov

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I‘ve had a recent opportunity to test a combo of MIT XLR and speaker cables in my system. Well, the sound is smooth and very resolving at the same time. Maybe organic is the right word. Unfortunately, this set retails for $36,000:eek: But I want this performance at $10,000! Any thoughts???
 

infinitely baffled

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Try Entreq.
The sound is organic, ethereal and extended at both frequency extremes.
The is a lush musicality combined with terrific drive and punch, so the best of all worlds.
Price-wise they should be right where you are aiming

Ftr, I have no relationship with Entreq apart from 'customer'
 

abeidrov

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Dec 17, 2015
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Try Entreq.
The sound is organic, ethereal and extended at both frequency extremes.
The is a lush musicality combined with terrific drive and punch, so the best of all worlds.
Price-wise they should be right where you are aiming

Ftr, I have no relationship with Entreq apart from 'customer'
I’ve had experience with their grounding cables and did not like the build quality at all. Their wooden connectors are awful in my view and would break quite easily. Maybe I am wrong...
 
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infinitely baffled

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Jul 2, 2015
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Granted they are an unusual design and need careful handling.
But the sound through their interconnects is nothing short of magical, so I'm inclined to think they are onto something using wooden connectors
 

Maurits

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Oct 24, 2016
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A good friend of mine and I borrowed the CrystalConnect Art Series Da Vinci cables last week and tried them on 4 hi-end systems in Hong Kong.

I will post a short review of the Da Vinci powercord and xlr interconnect very soon.
Stay tuned please.
;)
Love to read your review of the Da Vinci Series.
 

olivier

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Nov 27, 2016
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www.olivier-schmidt.com
Having tested pure silver, copper, expensive, cheap cables i ended up in using 16 Neotech 18 AWG solid core pure copper NEOTECH SOCT-14 without termination as speaker cable. This is the most resolving, dynamic and realistic sound. 8 per side, 4 per pole. All cables must have a certain distance (Air is the best isolator). I put black cable coating on.

You mustn´t change the setup often as the connection is a bit tricky and you shouldn´t be bothered by the number of cables.
With interconnect, i swear on Neotech Nemoi-3220.
But all is a matter of taste as i really like a very fast and musical presentation. And no, i don´t deal with Neotech :cool:
 
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marmota

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Feb 3, 2016
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i have always wondered....if the wiring inside a component would carry more weight than the wires connecting separate components. and if a good pair of cables that end up with a 4% tin solder compound... how does that actually work for the greater picture...:) lol just being philosophical:)

But indeed how many cost no object cables are out there .....not solving the simple intermediate materials used. for eg - a siltech triple crown cable with mono x silver ...crimped at the end with a crimp that is not of consistent metallurgy - then attached to a furutech connector that is copper which has a rhodium plating layer over.....there is hardly any metallurgy consistency from source to end component...is that the definition of cost no object? A siltech triple crown is certainly not cheap. Am no specialist but always amazed by what i see :)

Very smart observation!
Even cost no object stuff has compromises because nothing is perfect, however this can't be an excuse to use mid-fi quality parts in cables with 5 figure price tags.
Consistent metallurgy and custom parts is key at this price level IMO, there's no sense in buying custom amorphous metal or monocrystal silver conductors (for example), and then use a Neutrik connector with brass pins (there's a 14000$ cable that uses them), or even rhodium plated copper Furutech (good connectors but obviously not at the same level of quality of the expensive conductors).

Funny you mention Siltech...did you notice that the Triple Crown range uses custom connectors (excellent!), but the powercord of the Triple Crown range uses Furutech rhodium connectors and not the custom ones?
What does this mean? Are the custom connectors are sidegrade and not an upgrade from the readily available for everyone Furutech stuff, or is Siltech just lazy and doesn't care? Taking into account that a Triple Crown cable costs between 20000€ and 60000€ depending on configuration (!!!), this is unacceptable, not even OK as a joke.
 

nirodha

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Aug 11, 2010
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Very smart observation!
Even cost no object stuff has compromises because nothing is perfect, however this can't be an excuse to use mid-fi quality parts in cables with 5 figure price tags.
Consistent metallurgy and custom parts is key at this price level IMO, there's no sense in buying custom amorphous metal or monocrystal silver conductors (for example), and then use a Neutrik connector with brass pins (there's a 14000$ cable that uses them), or even rhodium plated copper Furutech (good connectors but obviously not at the same level of quality of the expensive conductors).

Funny you mention Siltech...did you notice that the Triple Crown range uses custom connectors (excellent!), but the powercord of the Triple Crown range uses Furutech rhodium connectors and not the custom ones?
What does this mean? Are the custom connectors are sidegrade and not an upgrade from the readily available for everyone Furutech stuff, or is Siltech just lazy and doesn't care? Taking into account that a Triple Crown cable costs between 20000€ and 60000€ depending on configuration (!!!), this is unacceptable, not even OK as a joke.
If something is readily available to everyone, it doesn’t mean it is bad. maybe siltech compared the top furutech connectors to their own and decided they were beaten. No shame in that.
 

marmota

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Feb 3, 2016
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If something is readily available to everyone, it doesn’t mean it is bad. maybe siltech compared the top furutech connectors to their own and decided they were beaten. No shame in that.

Re-read my post, please. I didn't say that off the shelf solutions were bad, I said that, in statement level products with a price tag to match (statement level, cost no object, not merely good or high value), they are out of place.
Of course Siltech compared their connector to Furutech's, Siltech's lower tier offerings use their connectors with great success...and that's the problem. You can't charge 3x-5x using the same connectors in the powercord, with the added confusion of having supposedly better, cost no object connectors in the rest of the Triple Crown line. That's either laziness or incompetence, no way around it.
I understand why LFD or the top Argento cables cost what they cost, they are full of bespoke parts everywhere and super expensive materials, plus intensive hand labor. I don't understand what Siltech did with their Triple Crown line with such a disparity and lack of conceptual continuity. Remember the price: 20000€ to 60000€ depending on cable configuration. We are not talking about high value or just good, we are talking about stuff that has to push the boundaries of design and sound to justify it's existence. With this proper context, it's obvious that what they did makes no sense and has to be called out.
 

highstream

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Nov 16, 2013
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Could it be that for developers sometimes matching desired sound to component parts argues against some choices no matter how well made? I’m not on the five or six figure per component end of the market, so don’t have experience there, but do imagine that even there sonic intention still rules. Of course, custom parts can be designed and ordered, but the development time involved, extra cost and reliability of the source might be obstacles.
 

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