Aries Cerat Talos Signature Worth It?

[Uwiik]

Hi all,
I am new here, from Jakarta- Indonesia. My friend introduced me to this forum, I am usually active on the ‘other’ forum. Nice to be here and hope to share and learn with you folks.

I am in the process of finalizing my front end. Components are as follow:
- Kuzma XL DC with Kuzma 4-11 TA and Miyajima Madake Cartridge.
- Accuphase C-3900 and A-250 pre/amp
- Franco Serblin Ktema Speakers
- Siltech Signature Series from entry Ruby Hill up to DC level.
- Torus AVR16
- Asus Mini PC for Roon digital source

Right now I am running loaners from my dealer for temporary patch up:
- Jadis JS3 Phono, I like the sound but it distorts like hell on trumpet on certain tracks (not all tracks/presses) and I don’t think the performance matches the price
- Jadis JS2 Mk3 D/A (I have decided on Lampi GG2 to replace this)

My problem is, while I love my Miyajima Madake SQ I hate how powerless/lack of Pratt/dynamics/staging on my setup, while it’s beautiful sounding it just has no muscle. I do not want to change to higher gain MC cartridge for lack of selection (most higher end on the line are all low output). I was originally set on Lampizator MC-1 but I don’t think the gain is enough for what I am looking for from my Miyajima Madake and I do not want to use external SUT due to cost of extra one more set RCA IC as I plan to use Siltech Triple Crown level for the RCA IC. Right now I prefer the sound from my loaner entry level Jadis JS2 mk3 D/A with Siltech DC XLR compared to my Kuzma XL DC with Jadis flagship JS3.

I stumbled upon Aries Cerat and is strongly considering Talos Signature at €45.000 but although I can afford it, it is still very expensive for a phono and I am wary about spending that much with no chance to audition beforehand. All I want is big, bold, beautiful and strong PRATT while maintaining details and smoothness preserving the original sound signature of Miyajima carts.

Can anybody advise me about it? It’s gotta be tube for me as the rest of my components are all SS and I am addicted to the sound signature of tube source and SS pre/power mix (previously a full tube guy)

many thanks and looking forward to your suggestions

 

[Mike Lavigne]

hello Uwiik, welcome to What's Best Forum.

my first comment would be to not be afraid of an SUT. the interconnect between the phono and SUT is best to be very short; i have two SUT's sitting on a wall mounted shelf behind my rack and the length is about 18 inches for the cables. so this can be very simple. i paid around $250 for each set of very short interconnects supplied by my SUT maker....EMIA.

i use a mid priced (under $20k USD) tubed phono from Japan, the CS Port C3EQM2. which has one MC input, and 2 MM inputs i use two SUT's with. my two SUT's are the EMIA silver wound. i use the Etsuro Gold MC cartridges with the SUT's, but on the MC input i have the Miyajima Infinity Mono which has a wonderful sound, very lively and meaty. the tube sound from the CS Port is not soft and rolled off, it's more grainless, pure and agile. good detail and textures. plays way above it's price. and the SUT's really take things to a high level.

Phono Equalizer Amplifier C3EQM2｜Products

超高信頼管C3g搭載 ドイツテレコムが電話中継器用に開発した超高信頼5極管C3...

www.csport.audio

two other tubed phono's i would seriously consider if i wanted a big and bold sounding step-up alternative would be the EMIA phono corrector (copper $15k, Silver $26k) which needs an SUT, and the EMT JPA66 ($45k) which is very flexible and can use (but does not need) an SUT.

LR Corrector

JPA 66 - EMT International

For 75 years, EMT designs, builds and markets a range of audio products for Broadcast professionals and for already 10 years also a collection of State of the Art audio products for the severe music lover. EMT equipment enjoys an excellent reputation for quality and reliability and has received...

emt-international.ch

there are some very high level systems here on WBF who did choose the EMT JPA66.

i don't know anything about the Aries Cerat, only heard it at shows. i'm sure it's high level but have no context.

 

[Lagonda]

Hi all,
I am new here, from Jakarta- Indonesia. My friend introduced me to this forum, I am usually active on the ‘other’ forum. Nice to be here and hope to share and learn with you folks.

I am in the process of finalizing my front end. Components are as follow:
- Kuzma XL DC with Kuzma 4-11 TA and Miyajima Madake Cartridge.
- Accuphase C-3900 and A-250 pre/amp
- Franco Serblin Ktema Speakers
- Siltech Signature Series from entry Ruby Hill up to DC level.
- Torus AVR16
- Asus Mini PC for Roon digital source

Right now I am running loaners from my dealer for temporary patch up:
- Jadis JS3 Phono, I like the sound but it distorts like hell on trumpet on certain tracks (not all tracks/presses) and I don’t think the performance matches the price
- Jadis JS2 Mk3 D/A (I have decided on Lampi GG2 to replace this)

My problem is, while I love my Miyajima Madake SQ I hate how powerless/lack of Pratt/dynamics/staging on my setup, while it’s beautiful sounding it just has no muscle. I do not want to change to higher gain MC cartridge for lack of selection (most higher end on the line are all low output). I was originally set on Lampizator MC-1 but I don’t think the gain is enough for what I am looking for from my Miyajima Madake and I do not want to use external SUT due to cost of extra one more set RCA IC as I plan to use Siltech Triple Crown level for the RCA IC. Right now I prefer the sound from my loaner entry level Jadis JS2 mk3 D/A with Siltech DC XLR compared to my Kuzma XL DC with Jadis flagship JS3.

I stumbled upon Aries Cerat and is strongly considering Talos Signature at €45.000 but although I can afford it, it is still very expensive for a phono and I am wary about spending that much with no chance to audition beforehand. All I want is big, bold, beautiful and strong PRATT while maintaining details and smoothness preserving the original sound signature of Miyajima carts.

Can anybody advise me about it? It’s gotta be tube for me as the rest of my components are all SS and I am addicted to the sound signature of tube source and SS pre/power mix (previously a full tube guy)

many thanks and looking forward to your suggestions

You are describing the sound of the Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 power supplies Big, bold and beautiful ! The Io is also startlingly dynamic when the music calls for it, placing the musicians right in the room with you. It is also surprisingly easy on the ears, i never feel any listening fatigue even after long sessions with the Io , with my SUT and SS that i also use it is a different story.

 

[Uwiik]

I am not anti SUT, I just cannot justify spending the money for two sets of Siltech TC RCA if I am using external SUT, hence my consideration to Aries Cerat Talos with its internal SUT. I am just that hooked up on Siltech cables after spending I don’t know how much on various other brands. I just do not want to go down that spiral chasing my own tail on cabling again and wanting to stay with Siltech as much as I can on my analog setup.

 

[Uwiik]

A friend also recommended EMT JPA66 MKII but as I understand it’s actually a preamplifier with built in phono and it has no remote? I might be wrong and please correct me if I do but the no remote thing is the real deal breaker for me

 

[Mike Lavigne]

A friend also recommended EMT JPA66 MKII but as I understand it’s actually a preamplifier with built in phono and it has no remote? I might be wrong and please correct me if I do but the no remote thing is the real deal breaker for me

most here use it as a stand alone phono stage. with a proper active preamp.

i think it's more a robust phono that happens to have a volume control; you can order it without the volume control.

i assume your 'remote' issue is concerning a stand alone preamp, not a phono.

 

[Uwiik]

You assumed correctly thank you very much. Do you happen to know what is the maximum gain on EMT JP66 MK3? The website is seriously lacking informations.

 

[morricab]

Talos Signature phono review

Our Talos Signature phono system review from Matej Isak is out. We are very happy to announce that our design was given an Editors Choice award, among other compliments "The Aries Cerat Talos Signature is the best phono preamp I have had the pleasure of testing, regardless of whether it's...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[morricab]

I haven't had the Signature here (it was more a Reference + version that I have had here) but the version I had here was phenomenal and has tremedous impact and dynamics.

 

[Lagonda]

Talos Signature phono review

Our Talos Signature phono system review from Matej Isak is out. We are very happy to announce that our design was given an Editors Choice award, among other compliments "The Aries Cerat Talos Signature is the best phono preamp I have had the pleasure of testing, regardless of whether it's...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Nice review, he is quite a writer

 

[Uwiik]

Thanks for the link but I have seen that link in Aries Cerat subforum. I quite like the review and I think European reviewers are more elaborate and truthful. I am looking for firsthand experience from folks around here.

 

[Uwiik]

I haven't had the Signature here (it was more a Reference + version that I have had here) but the version I had here was phenomenal and has tremedous impact and dynamics.

I am assuming you don’t have it anymore? If I assumed correctly, any reason why?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I am not anti SUT, I just cannot justify spending the money for two sets of Siltech TC RCA if I am using external SUT, hence my consideration to Aries Cerat Talos with its internal SUT. I am just that hooked up on Siltech cables after spending I don’t know how much on various other brands. I just do not want to go down that spiral chasing my own tail on cabling again and wanting to stay with Siltech as much as I can on my analog setup.

my point about the SUT is that the interconnect between the phono and SUT can be less exotic than the actual phono cable or between the phono stage and preamp. it can be really short too.....6 inches long. how the MM input and the SUT are interacting is different than a normal line level situation. just don't let that (adding another super spendy cable set) issue keep you from the best sounding bang for the buck. an SUT approach with a cheap short IC might bring more net performance than finding an active gain stage phono. which is how it played out for me. i know i could upgrade that short IC in my system, but it gave me such a significant step up over the MC input that i've just not bothered to worry about it.

 

[Uwiik]

my point about the SUT is that the interconnect between the phono and SUT can be less exotic than the actual phono cable or between the phono stage and preamp. it can be really short too.....6 inches long. how the MM input and the SUT are interacting is different than a normal line level situation. just don't let that (adding another super spendy cable set) issue keep you from the best sounding bang for the buck. an SUT approach with a cheap short IC might bring more net performance than finding an active gain stage phono. which is how it played out for me. i know i could upgrade that short IC in my system, but it gave me such a significant step up over the MC input that i've just not bothered to worry about it.

That starting to make sense to me now... that was my only concern with SUT and you just made a perfect explanation and I think I can accept the logic. Thank you very much for that. I will have a second deeper look at the phono of your (and others) suggestions carefully before I jump the cliff and get the AC Talos. With your point of view I am now going back on considering Lampizator MC-1. I really like the concept of that tube phono stage as it is designed and made especially and only for low output MC cartridges. What would be the best sounding SUT without breaking the bank right now? I have Miyajima ETR-800P (33 db max gain) as loaner from my dealer but it’s not big and bold enough to step up my loaner Jadis JS3 (JS3 is only 60 db gain). Looking at the specifications alone actually Aries Cerat Talos Signature have lower final gain (64 + 36 = 90 db max gain) even after internal SUT compared to my existing loaner JS3 + Miyajima SUT (60 + 33 = 93 db max gain). However the only review I could find on Aries Cerat Talos Signature described it as very bold and dynamic hence the interest and also the worry (based on paper specs) due to the expensive price.

 

[Aries Cerat]

That starting to make sense to me now... that was my only concern with SUT and you just made a perfect explanation and I think I can accept the logic. Thank you very much for that. I will have a second deeper look at the phono of your (and others) suggestions carefully before I jump the cliff and get the AC Talos. With your point of view I am now going back on considering Lampizator MC-1. I really like the concept of that tube phono stage as it is designed and made especially and only for low output MC cartridges. What would be the best sounding SUT without breaking the bank right now? I have Miyajima ETR-800P (33 db max gain) as loaner from my dealer but it’s not big and bold enough to step up my loaner Jadis JS3 (JS3 is only 60 db gain). Looking at the specifications alone actually Aries Cerat Talos Signature have lower final gain (64 + 36 = 90 db max gain) even after internal SUT compared to my existing loaner JS3 + Miyajima SUT (60 + 33 = 93 db max gain). However the only review I could find on Aries Cerat Talos Signature described it as very bold and dynamic hence the interest and also the worry (based on paper specs) due to the expensive price.

Hello

The internal SUT of the Talos Sig (and Ref) are custom designed for each individual client, to better fit the carts in use.
You can of course use your own SUT connected to the other available inputs ,with your 33/36db SUT the total gain would be 97/100db (64+36) which is extremely high in most systems, but each case is different .

There is also option for dual internal SUT ,with different gain/impedance specs for each pair.Having internal sut has advantages, being shielded, with short cables , two less connectors,the usual trivial things,when comparing same SUT internal and same external.
However the main advantage of our custom SUTs is that they have differential outputs, to fully use the Talos differential input.

Cheers
Stavros

 

[morricab]

I am assuming you don’t have it anymore? If I assumed correctly, any reason why?

I had it only on loan to do a show...it was not mine...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That starting to make sense to me now... that was my only concern with SUT and you just made a perfect explanation and I think I can accept the logic. Thank you very much for that. I will have a second deeper look at the phono of your (and others) suggestions carefully before I jump the cliff and get the AC Talos. With your point of view I am now going back on considering Lampizator MC-1. I really like the concept of that tube phono stage as it is designed and made especially and only for low output MC cartridges. What would be the best sounding SUT without breaking the bank right now? I have Miyajima ETR-800P (33 db max gain) as loaner from my dealer but it’s not big and bold enough to step up my loaner Jadis JS3 (JS3 is only 60 db gain). Looking at the specifications alone actually Aries Cerat Talos Signature have lower final gain (64 + 36 = 90 db max gain) even after internal SUT compared to my existing loaner JS3 + Miyajima SUT (60 + 33 = 93 db max gain). However the only review I could find on Aries Cerat Talos Signature described it as very bold and dynamic hence the interest and also the worry (based on paper specs) due to the expensive price.

i'm not the person to coach you on SUT choice regarding number of winds and so on, as i needed lots of hand holding. i've tried to comprehend the math involved, but the clouds have not parted on my comprehension. in my system with all my cartridges (3 Etsuro and 2 Miyajima) all around 4-5 ohms internal that the EMIA 1:10 silver wound seems to hit a home run with all of them. why that is at this point is not something i need to understand.

what i did was work with Dave Slagle of EMIA and he sent me a few SUT's to try before i settled on the right one. he builds them and has written about them. so EMIA is a good one, their silver wound SUT does sound fantastic to me. i don't know about the Miyajima SUT's but logically they should be great with your cartridge.

here is a thread about the Consolidated Audio SUT from Germany, which might be the other really fine SUT that is high quality and not crazy expensive i would recommend.

My Journey With SUTs

Mark Lavigne has recently shared his experience with SUTs. I just went through a similar process over the last months. Until recently, my only experience with SUTs was that my Allnic phono stage H3000V has a built in variable SUT. I have been very happy with the Allnic. When I acquired the SAT...

www.whatsbestforum.com

and then there is the Ypsilon SUT's (three levels to choose from) which are very highly considered.

Aaudio Imports: Product

those three are likely "can't miss" choices. i think especially looking for really good quality and getting that short "cheap" IC help my choice is the EMIA.

 

[Uwiik]

Hello

The internal SUT of the Talos Sig (and Ref) are custom designed for each individual client, to better fit the carts in use.
You can of course use your own SUT connected to the other available inputs ,with your 33/36db SUT the total gain would be 97/100db (64+36) which is extremely high in most systems, but each case is different .

There is also option for dual internal SUT ,with different gain/impedance specs for each pair.Having internal sut has advantages, being shielded, with short cables , two less connectors,the usual trivial things,when comparing same SUT internal and same external.
However the main advantage of our custom SUTs is that they have differential outputs, to fully use the Talos differential input.

Cheers
Stavros

Straight from the horse’s mouth. Thanks a lot for your contribution. Just one quick question. What is the characteristic of your Talos Sig? Big bold and beautiful or natural flowing transparent?
Many thanks!

 

[Uwiik]

i'm not the person to coach you on SUT choice regarding number of winds and so on, as i needed lots of hand holding. i've tried to comprehend the math involved, but the clouds have not parted on my comprehension. in my system with all my cartridges (3 Etsuro and 2 Miyajima) all around 4-5 ohms internal that the EMIA 1:10 silver wound seems to hit a home run with all of them. why that is at this point is not something i need to understand.

what i did was work with Dave Slagle of EMIA and he sent me a few SUT's to try before i settled on the right one. he builds them and has written about them. so EMIA is a good one, their silver wound SUT does sound fantastic to me. i don't know about the Miyajima SUT's but logically they should be great with your cartridge.

here is a thread about the Consolidated Audio SUT from Germany, which might be the other really fine SUT that is high quality and not crazy expensive i would recommend.

My Journey With SUTs

Mark Lavigne has recently shared his experience with SUTs. I just went through a similar process over the last months. Until recently, my only experience with SUTs was that my Allnic phono stage H3000V has a built in variable SUT. I have been very happy with the Allnic. When I acquired the SAT...

www.whatsbestforum.com

and then there is the Ypsilon SUT's (three levels to choose from) which are very highly considered.

Aaudio Imports: Product

those three are likely "can't miss" choices. i think especially looking for really good quality and getting that short "cheap" IC help my choice is the EMIA.

Just got a loaner Silvercore MC Pro SUT 1:20. It’s sounding so big, bold and beautiful as I always wanted. But the hum, oh my God the hum is even louder than Miyajima at the exact same location. Any pointers on how to get rid of the hum? Tried relocating to many different spots away from PC but ot still persists

 

[Aries Cerat]

Straight from the horse’s mouth. Thanks a lot for your contribution. Just one quick question. What is the characteristic of your Talos Sig? Big bold and beautiful or natural flowing transparent?
Many thanks!

Hello

I am very poor at describing the sound of my equipment, maybe reason be my poor English, in addition that, when i design i try to remove all character inducing properties in the chain. As the review stated

"The Aries Cerat Talos Signature is the best phono preamp I have had the pleasure of testing, regardless of whether it's a solid-state or tube design and regardless of the price. The Aries Cerat Talos Signature is everything: spacious, dynamic, transparent, and goes beyond the expected with the intimacy of the music".

My opinion is ,that one can only hear and judge for himself.

I can say however that Talos tries to sound like music, bold when music is bold,beautiful when music is beautiful, no restrains in dynamics, tone/timbre accurate and ability to retrieve low level information that in most phonos fell through the cracks.



Cheers
Stavros