Aqua Formula - settings new levels of R2R sonics and price performance

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
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Can you give us information or a link concerning such PCM R2R implementation?

Look here for example: http://lampizator.eu/Fikus/DAC_ATLANTIC.html

The Golden gate and Big7 are the same. I also says it on the Dac spec spped that ships out with each one. Amber and Euforia are not R2R ladder.

The Golden versions of Atlantic and Big7 have these premium parts upgrades:

1.Silver WBT solder used throughout

2.All wiring is 26 GA stranded silver in teflon

3.WBT gold / silver RCA output sockets or Furutech Rhodium RCA

4.Furutech RCA digital S/PDIF input or WBT

5.ATOM Vishay first capacitor after the tube

6.Mundorf M-Lytic HV electrolytes in second stage of PSU Or Kendeil

7.Mundorf Foil MKP capacitors or Clarity Cap iPX series in third, final stage of power supply just before the tube anode.

8.Metal-Film laser cut resistor MLT in Anode Load

9.CMC Teflon sockets with gold pin contacts for all 3 tubes

10.Output capacitors are the huge Jupiter-Copper 1uF caps or Audyn True Copper 1 uF, bypassed by Duelund Pure Silver caps or by Mundorf Silver Oil Supreme. Yes, a hybrid, best of both worlds, supposedly beating even pure silver one-cap solution.

11.Rectifier tube is Emission Labs monstrous Mesh Plate 5U4G or EML Mesh 274B

12.Music Tubes are Western Electric Replica 101D / Metal base Psvane or MESH45 EML or KRON KR PX-4 or KRON KR-300B

13.Digital input SPDIF capacitor is Jupiter Wax Copper 100nF or Mundorf Silver Oil Supreme .

14.Packing in a special customized stage case made to order for Golden Gate DAC

15.Chassis / box is made of pure copper stamped and powder clear-coated for 100 years of immaculate shine. Copper provides also heat dissipation and the best EM shielding possible.

16. A set of ceramic / steel roller-block feet supports the DAC
 
Last edited:

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
To get this thread back to it's original topic, here are my impressions after a few days of listening:

The Aqua Formula is a killer DAC and now sits at the top of my list of DACs I have auditioned in my system so far.
Particularly interesting was that I recently heard the (also R2R) TotalDAC six in my system, whose sound is still burned into my memory.
You can read my test here:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-and-DAC-8-DSD&p=418022&viewfull=1#post418022

Where with the TotalDAC on some tracks I still preferred the T+A (for details check the review), I had no such instances with the Aqua.
As Mike and Srajan already put it, this machine is a master of space. I have never heard my system so holographic and 3D-like than with the Formula.
Musicians hang more freely between the speakers and the walls almost melt away. I say almost, because my room is relatively small due to the fact that I'm living in a city condo.
In a bigger room I'm sure the soundstage will be even more breathtaking.

Tone is more natural with the Aqua than with the T+A.
In a direct A-B, I feel that the T+A sounds a little bit forced compared to the Formula. This of course you only notice in a direct A-B, the T+A is still an incredible value @ DSD512.
It may be, that the T+A's bass is a little more powerful, bold and deep, but the Aqua delivers more naturalism and micro resolution in the bass and surely is anything but weak in this regard. The T+A's sound is more raw if you will, less refined.

Compared to the TotalDAC (not head to head), I feel that the six had an even lower noisefloor (by a very small margin), but it definitely also delivered less dynamics and fun, making the Aqua the winner in my books.

However, the SGM plays an important role here, as the jump from Redbook upsampled to DXD via HQPlayer is almost mandatory with the Formula.
In comparison with my CAPS pipeline v4 with Intona, the SGM delivers much more resolution, better tone and an incredible low noisefloor.
If I had to make an order, ranging from "worst" to best, it would go like this:

CAPS with T+A -> CAPS with Aqua -> SGM with T+A -> SGM with Aqua

Paradoxically, DSD64 source material "upsampled" to DXD on the Formula sounds simply amazing, better than upsampled to DSD512 on the T+A.

I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.
So far I haven't played with any HQPlayer settings, footers and different cables yet, maybe there is even more to get out of this machine.

For me, the Aqua Formula is a highlight in the not too extreme pricerange (e.g. I have heard Audio Note and Aries Cerat sounding absolutely fantastic, although not in my system).
I will continue to write my impressions when I have more experience with it.

Cheers
Christoph
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Christoph, absolutely first rate comparative review/ranking
You've v neatly addressed my trepidation that Formula on SGM might be Hifi impressive, but the Dac8 a more persuasive music machine
It looks like the Formula truly delivers on analog vibe, is not embarrassed at all by Dac8 on verve and timing, and brings a whole lot more to the party wrt bloom and decay
Looks like a new digital benchmark forming
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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To get this thread back to it's original topic, here are my impressions after a few days of listening:


For me, the Aqua Formula is a highlight in the not too extreme pricerange (e.g. I have heard Audio Note and Aries Cerat sounding absolutely fantastic, although not in my system).
I will continue to write my impressions when I have more experience with it.

Cheers
Christoph

I second the Audio Note DAC 5. Old tech and not updated for a long time, BUT still sounds fabulous in my system on Redbook. It killed the CH Precision C1 in a recent demo. Not heard the Lampi GG yet though or the Formula.
 

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
Thanks Marc!

Well, I would be hard pressed to envision someone who would ultimately prefer the T+A over the Aqua, here the price difference is (for a change) somehow in line with the actual sound difference.
But yeah, the T+A is of course a great music machine that I hold in high regards, especially for it's price. In Europe, T+A recently increased the price from 2.700€ to 3.000€ - and rightly so.

Christoph
 

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
Astrostar,
yes, newer is not always better, I came across some DACs that did not benefit from upsampling at all, no matter how sophisticated the algorithms were.
What I can tell you is that T+A and Aqua both benefit enormously from good quality upsampling.
Congrats on your DAC, it's special!
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Look here for example: http://lampizator.eu/Fikus/DAC_ATLANTIC.html

The Golden gate and Big7 are the same. I also says it on the Dac spec spped that ships out with each one. Amber and Euforia are not R2R ladder.

The Golden versions of Atlantic and Big7 have these premium parts upgrades:

1.Silver WBT solder used throughout

2.All wiring is 26 GA stranded silver in teflon

3.WBT gold / silver RCA output sockets or Furutech Rhodium RCA

4.Furutech RCA digital S/PDIF input or WBT

5.ATOM Vishay first capacitor after the tube

6.Mundorf M-Lytic HV electrolytes in second stage of PSU Or Kendeil

7.Mundorf Foil MKP capacitors or Clarity Cap iPX series in third, final stage of power supply just before the tube anode.

8.Metal-Film laser cut resistor MLT in Anode Load

9.CMC Teflon sockets with gold pin contacts for all 3 tubes

10.Output capacitors are the huge Jupiter-Copper 1uF caps or Audyn True Copper 1 uF, bypassed by Duelund Pure Silver caps or by Mundorf Silver Oil Supreme. Yes, a hybrid, best of both worlds, supposedly beating even pure silver one-cap solution.

11.Rectifier tube is Emission Labs monstrous Mesh Plate 5U4G or EML Mesh 274B

12.Music Tubes are Western Electric Replica 101D / Metal base Psvane or MESH45 EML or KRON KR PX-4 or KRON KR-300B

13.Digital input SPDIF capacitor is Jupiter Wax Copper 100nF or Mundorf Silver Oil Supreme .

14.Packing in a special customized stage case made to order for Golden Gate DAC

15.Chassis / box is made of pure copper stamped and powder clear-coated for 100 years of immaculate shine. Copper provides also heat dissipation and the best EM shielding possible.

16. A set of ceramic / steel roller-block feet supports the DAC

Thanks. All this shows where your money goes, but does not tell anything about the technical aspects. Do you know what is the technique behind the R2R and the number of bits of it? Do you know how it is implemented? Does it play DXD in native resolution?
 

GuillaumeB

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Mar 10, 2014
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www.boyeraudio.com
Astrostar,

What I can tell you is that T+A and Aqua both benefit enormously from good quality upsampling.

Hi there, would you say that the d1-six benefited a great deal from upsampling?

Thanks

Guillaume
 

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
Hi Guillaume,

yes, the six does benefit from upsampling to 174/192 kHz, IIRC the asymFIR modulator was the best fit for it, whereas the Aqua prefers the TDPF modulator.
Recently I had the chance to listen to the D1, which did not respond as well to upsampling as the six did. However, we didn't have the time to optimize the settings, maybe with a little more time things would have turned out differently.

But the six benefits without a doubt!

Christoph
 

GuillaumeB

VIP/Donor
Mar 10, 2014
267
85
333
UK
www.boyeraudio.com
Hi Guillaume,

yes, the six does benefit from upsampling to 174/192 kHz, IIRC the asymFIR modulator was the best fit for it, whereas the Aqua prefers the TDPF modulator.
Recently I had the chance to listen to the D1, which did not respond as well to upsampling as the six did. However, we didn't have the time to optimize the settings, maybe with a little more time things would have turned out differently.

But the six benefits without a doubt!

Christoph

Very interesting, thanks Christoph!

Guillaume
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,366
4,410
To get this thread back to it's original topic, here are my impressions after a few days of listening:

The Aqua Formula is a killer DAC and now sits at the top of my list of DACs I have auditioned in my system so far.
Particularly interesting was that I recently heard the (also R2R) TotalDAC six in my system, whose sound is still burned into my memory.
You can read my test here:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-and-DAC-8-DSD&p=418022&viewfull=1#post418022

Where with the TotalDAC on some tracks I still preferred the T+A (for details check the review), I had no such instances with the Aqua.
As Mike and Srajan already put it, this machine is a master of space. I have never heard my system so holographic and 3D-like than with the Formula.
Musicians hang more freely between the speakers and the walls almost melt away. I say almost, because my room is relatively small due to the fact that I'm living in a city condo.
In a bigger room I'm sure the soundstage will be even more breathtaking.

Tone is more natural with the Aqua than with the T+A.
In a direct A-B, I feel that the T+A sounds a little bit forced compared to the Formula. This of course you only notice in a direct A-B, the T+A is still an incredible value @ DSD512.
It may be, that the T+A's bass is a little more powerful, bold and deep, but the Aqua delivers more naturalism and micro resolution in the bass and surely is anything but weak in this regard. The T+A's sound is more raw if you will, less refined.

Compared to the TotalDAC (not head to head), I feel that the six had an even lower noisefloor (by a very small margin), but it definitely also delivered less dynamics and fun, making the Aqua the winner in my books.

However, the SGM plays an important role here, as the jump from Redbook upsampled to DXD via HQPlayer is almost mandatory with the Formula.
In comparison with my CAPS pipeline v4 with Intona, the SGM delivers much more resolution, better tone and an incredible low noisefloor.
If I had to make an order, ranging from "worst" to best, it would go like this:

CAPS with T+A -> CAPS with Aqua -> SGM with T+A -> SGM with Aqua

Paradoxically, DSD64 source material "upsampled" to DXD on the Formula sounds simply amazing, better than upsampled to DSD512 on the T+A.

I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.
So far I haven't played with any HQPlayer settings, footers and different cables yet, maybe there is even more to get out of this machine.

For me, the Aqua Formula is a highlight in the not too extreme pricerange (e.g. I have heard Audio Note and Aries Cerat sounding absolutely fantastic, although not in my system).
I will continue to write my impressions when I have more experience with it.

Cheers
Christoph

Christoph,

thank you for the most clear and helpful feedback. seems that we are hearing very similar things from the Aqua/SGM. and yes, in my large room it does seem to fill it up, and the musical energy is very good.

a question; are you using XLR interconnects with the Aqua? I know you said you still need to play around more with other things, but to my ears that one was big.

again, thanks.
 

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
Hi Mike,

yes I used XLR exclusively. Cable tryouts will mostly happen in the power domain and maybe the USB cable.
I can choose between organic and pleasant sounding Sablons and agil and quick sounding Gold Notes.

Cheers
Christoph
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
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E. England
God damnit!
I want to stop upgrading/spending, but you guys are dragging me back in!
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
5,413
1,278
E. England
I know, I know
And we know how it all ends
Poor old Sophia Coppola gets the ultimate upgrade
 

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
Thanks. All this shows where your money goes, but does not tell anything about the technical aspects. Do you know what is the technique behind the R2R and the number of bits of it? Do you know how it is implemented? Does it play DXD in native resolution?

Micro, I believe Lampizator uses one of the Soekris boards for PCM:
http://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html
You can check the specs on the Soekris homepage. (I don't know which model Lampizator is using)

Christoph
 

Thieliste

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2014
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Hi guys, any of you know how the Aqua Formula would stand against the Totaldac Twelve and CH Precision C1 ?
Aqua Formula being about half price of the other 2.
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
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Hi guys, any of you know how the Aqua Formula would stand against the Totaldac Twelve and CH Precision C1 ?
Aqua Formula being about half price of the other 2.

I have heard the TotalDAC D1-12 SE, it is a great DAC. I have not heard the CH Precision C1, but know that people speak highly of it. My 2 cents is that the Formula being fed a diet of any and all formats by the Sound Galleries Music Server is definitely in the same competive Sound stadium.

However we all listen differently and have a different order of priorities which lift our boat of listening pleasure. If you are a detail person, then the Formula has a lot to offer. Timbre, and texture are superb. The D-1 12 might be the winner for tonal density, but the match of your down stream electronics is key for a top flight end result.

As you are in France, we will happily make the journey for you to have a listen to the SGM and Formula in your system at your home.
 

Legolas

VIP/Donor
Dec 27, 2015
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Hi guys, any of you know how the Aqua Formula would stand against the Totaldac Twelve and CH Precision C1 ?
Aqua Formula being about half price of the other 2.

Can't say for the others, but I have heard the C1 on it's own at home in my system, and it was very impressive, but after 2 hours I was bored. It didn't float my boat, was too hifi and cold for my taste. It also proved to be a bit harsh on average female vocal recordings for example on my Stax 009s. My Audio Note or AMR was fine. I have no idea why this is, possibly the USB on the C1 is not as good as Ethernet? This may not apply to all systems, and your mileage may vary.
 

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