Anyone still questioning Wilson musicality? Even Art Dudley likes Wilson

[caesar]

A few years back, Wilson had a reputation that Magico currently has: a cold, analytical speaker, as emotional as a Teutonic wet nurse, made for guys with money rather than taste. I kind of felt the same way about Wilson, wondering how people can pay such big bucks for this type of non-involving sound, even when driven by tubes. But 3 or 4 years ago, even before the silk dome tweeter models, something changed. Even Art Dudley liked them.

And now with the new XLF and Alexias, which I think are superb, musicality has increased further. Sure there are other great speakers such as MBL, Tad, and Vivid that one can find more to their taste. But I wonder if anyone finds Wilsons amusical.

 

[Bruce B]

+1... I couldn't stand the sound of earlier Wilson's. There was a shop across the water (Nuts About Hi-fi), that always paired them with big Krell's. Right around the time of the W/P 7 and Sophia 2, something changed. My first Wilson's were the W/P 7. They were still a little edgy, but they were more cohesive. Now with the new XLF/Alexia, I feel Wilson has totally changed their house sound.

 

[Elberoth]

A few years back, Wilson had a reputation that Magico currently has: a cold, analytical speaker, as emotional as a Teutonic wet nurse, made for guys with money rather than taste.

Not sure where did you picked that up. Magicos are far more musical, fluid and far smoother soundng than Wilsons.

I used to own Sophia 2 for 2 years, then Sasha for 3 years. I agree on the change of character though - it started with Sophia 1 / Maxx 1 / WP7 to my ears, and then progressed with next model.

Still not as warm, fluid and grainless as my Magico S5 though.

 

[LL21]

+1...Right around the time of the W/P 7 and Sophia 2, something changed. My first Wilson's were the W/P 7. They were still a little edgy, but they were more cohesive. Now with the new XLF/Alexia, I feel Wilson has totally changed their house sound.

I agree. My observations about definitive steps (in my mind) was when the Maxx III came out relative to Max II, and when the Sasha came out and pretty much signalled the total Wilson line was now changed which of course was reconfirmed in the Sophia. The XLF, Alexia are the next formal movement in the major evolution.

I own and love my Wilson X1s...but they take so much care in system set up, and you can tell by my front end (Zanden, CJ, Gryphon and TA Reference MM/XL) that its natural character can be quite scientific even to my ears. While its never 'easy' to setup any equipment, if you want something pleasant, I personally have found some speakers 'easier' to setup. SF is clearly one. Wilson has become more that way...having heard it with a bunch of different equipment, and it never tore my ears off like my X1s first did when they arrived and were first plunked down (pre- custom setup and in the dealer's room with dealer's equipment)...I remember that day telling the dealer he either 'fixes' the X1s or do not bother to bring them to the house. Fortunately the Distributor is one of the most talented engineers...

 

[flez007]

No matter what, Wilson always remain in my top-5 picks, I have enjoyed great Wilson-based set-ups at shows such as Doshi's and AR rooms, as well as at distributors such as Stereo Designs in CA with Boulder gear, I have been close to get a pair for me but things have not resolved in that direction .... yet.

 

[FrantzM]

A few years back, Wilson had a reputation that Magico currently has: a cold, analytical speaker, as emotional as a Teutonic wet nurse, made for guys with money rather than taste. I kind of felt the same way about Wilson, wondering how people can pay such big bucks for this type of non-involving sound, even when driven by tubes. But 3 or 4 years ago, even before the silk dome tweeter models, something changed. Even Art Dudley liked them.

And now with the new XLF and Alexias, which I think are superb, musicality has increased further. Sure there are other great speakers such as MBL, Tad, and Vivid that one can find more to their taste. But I wonder if anyone finds Wilsons amusical.

In my recollection and I have been in that hobby for a very, very, very long time .. Since I was a a teenager actually, read Wilson the Man when he was a reviewer in TAS and heard the Wilson Watts since he started using this particular speaker for monitoring purposes (he was a recording engineer) and remember the Watts with the famous beard... Heard the WAMM and maybe every Wilson ever made save from the Alexia (just not yet) and the WP8 (did not care) ... None were analytical or cold... peaky in the treble in some .. yes ... Analytical, cold or sterile??? Wilson !?!?!?

As for your evaluation of Magico.. Well it differs from mine. Accurate? Absolutely. Precise and "fast" Oh yes!! Excellent reproducer of music? You bet! .. They bring the recording as clearly and in my view better than many (most) brands out there. I and many others if we are judging by how much love they are eliciting do not find them cold or analytical. I, for one am interested in the accurate reproduction of music and am not particularly interested in gear that put a nice patina on the music and make all of them sound the same. Wilson speakers, the recent iteration anyway, from what I heard are not euphonic. It began in my view with the X-2 which I have heard in several iterations not yet the XLF. I believe the "analytical" epithet that you ,Caesar consistently attach to Magico is wrong. Try to hear them in your own system . Do try with pieces you know. Make for that purpose only your reference to be things actually being played in real life setting, unamplified if possible. Say a solo violin or piano well recorded. Then hear a large orchestra , then hear a small Jazz combo. Or a solo voice.. ESL-like in their reproduction of voice BTW these magic Magicos. There are a few of these recordings you know. You are an audiophile after all Then you may come with a different conclusion. I heard violins in small settings on the Magico Q7 and Q3 ... Closer to the real violins than most speakers and just to make things interesting .. I also heard big bass drums and voices (male and female) on it ... Same ! They are spooky and, yes, unforgiving... They are not the only speakers that are acurate by the way in my recent experience ... Hint read my impressions about the TAD which I will come back to audition ... in NYC .. Sorry Sanjay you will have to see me again ...

 

[MylesBAstor]

+1... I couldn't stand the sound of earlier Wilson's. There was a shop across the water (Nuts About Hi-fi), that always paired them with big Krell's. Right around the time of the W/P 7 and Sophia 2, something changed. My first Wilson's were the W/P 7. They were still a little edgy, but they were more cohesive. Now with the new XLF/Alexia, I feel Wilson has totally changed their house sound.

Maybe the problem wasn't the speakers?

I paired the Wilson 5.1s with tubes like the small SE Carys, bigger cjs, AudioNote, Unison and a few others and people were shocked how good they sounded (changing the Puppy tails helped tremendously). Furthermore, I don't agree with Wilson's speaker set-up procedure and got far better sound in at least my listening room, using a more conventional approach. I understand why Dave does what he does but it doesn't work for me.

For the record, people also accuse ML speakers of the same things and no one that has been here has complained about an edgy, cold sound (and I've like many, have heard it elsewhere). As everything, it 's all in the matching of gear and room set-up.

 

[Jim Smith]

It's interesting to note the changes that have occurred after Peter McGrath came on the scene...

 

[Steve Williams]

I don't agree with Wilson's speaker set-up procedure and got far better sound in at least my listening room, using a more conventional approach. I understand why Dave does what he does but it doesn't work for me

out of fairness the manual does state that his set up was a starting point to work from

My present set up was done by me initially and then with the help of my buddy Marty who helped with subs and upper mid bass and tweeter modules. These latter were done to more accurately position the singer's mouth to an even more realistic (at least for us) height. And as Myles said every room is different

 

[Elliot G.]

Bravo Myles!
I am so tired of descriptions of products based on drive by's auditions at shows etc. The results are ALWAYS in the details. The system and the set up make all the difference in every system.
I think the sound at all shows stinks. It is at its BEST fair.
Large dynamic speakers require a really good room both acoustically and size wise to work. If you dont have that you shouldn't own them. If you dont know how to set it up then here is a novel idea pay someone that can.
I am sorry but way to many audiophiles think they know something they really don't.
The process by which the press anoints something as GREAT sound is to me ludicrous. I have heard so many of these system and just want to laugh.
Its virtually IMPOSSIBLE in a hotel room to get reference quality sound with a bad room, inferior electricity and one day to make it sing.
These events are to show new goods and try to give some idea of the quality. I wish all audiophiles would have the opportunity to hear a really great system it is life changing. If you dont get goosebumps and transformed it wasn't that good.
Peace

 

[cjfrbw]

Can't say I disagree with you. However, there is a point where the person with the system has to take the ultimate responsibility to get it to sound the way he wants, with or without professional assistance.

The CAS 2013 show did have some excellent sounding rooms, in spite of show conditions, so it is possible, though possibly fortuitous. The best thing you can use a show for is to bracket choices if you are thinking of buying, or try to enjoy different systems if you are touring.

The biggest shock at a show is hearing music that I thought I was familiar sound completely different from system to system, and stuff that sounded good at home sounding bad on expensive setups. I was also whipsawed by the headphone gear, which more or less went contrary to any expectations I had. I think those disruptions of expectations help to keep an open mind.

 

[LL21]

Can't say I disagree with you. However, there is a point where the person with the system has to take the ultimate responsibility to get it to sound the way he wants, with or without professional assistance.

Totally right...we all must. That said, I admit I would have no ability to move my X1s myself, nor pull apart all the separate coverings to get at the inner workings, resolder resistors, and all the various things that must be done to readjust them. I DID take responsibility in listening to the speakers throughout the 10 hours of setup so the Distributor and Dealer knew precisely the kind of sound I was looking for. And to their credit, they delivered in spades. They even soldered different resistors to the cones a few different times to get the treble dispersion just right. Great stuff.

 

[XV-1]

I think Myles has nailed it. I also thought Wilson was cold and steely, however looking back it was more what was feeding the speakers than anything to do with the speakers.

Personally, I do not find my tweeters bright at all with my Maxx3's, concise, detailed, excellent leading edge but not as "airy" as soft dome speakers. I do not own clinical amps thou.

I spent an afternoon with the Alexia' s with Momentum amplification and it sounded nice. Not sure I agree with the raving about the soft dome tweeter, to me it sounded much like any soft dome tweeter. The relevator tweeter on my old Strads certainly was better IMO.

It just makes me wonder how much better the new Wilson speakers could sound with say the Focal beryllium tweeter - that would be sensational.

Anyway, certainly no longer any new Wilson tweeter envy. Ymmv

 

[rockitman]

Wilson's sound like the source. They are not forgiving speakers by design. If you have great source, they are set up correctly, you have great sound. I only have w/p 8 experience prior to my x-2.2's. I don't think about my speakers anymore or wonder about something else...most of the time, anyway...

 

[Bruce B]

It just makes me wonder how much better the new Wilson speakers could sound with say the Focal beryllium tweeter - that would be sensational.

Anyway, certainly no longer any new Wilson tweeter envy. Ymmv

I have the Focals with the Be tweeter in my other room and it's just slightly better than the older titanium in my W/P7 ... but not near the smoothness and linearity of the tweeter in my Alexia's.

 

[LL21]

Wilson's sound like the source. They are not forgiving speakers by design. If you have great source, they are set up correctly, you have great sound. I only have w/p 8 experience prior to my x-2.2's. I don't think about my speakers anymore or wonder about something else...most of the time, anyway...

I think Myles has nailed it. I also thought Wilson was cold and steely, however looking back it was more what was feeding the speakers than anything to do with the speakers.

Martin Colloms said it in his review of the first X1s...they had a cold, steely bite to them...but at the time had only put in digital sources (digital sources from 1994!) But as soon as his SOTA TT was fixed...he realized that the Wison X1s 'were acting like a microscope...reaching all the way back through the recording chain'. The stridency was the digital source. Gone were the stridency and steel with his SOTA TT and source material.

(interestingly, Martin Colloms also noted that it took forever to find the super-low bass power that Wilsons are known for. But after re-arranging the entire room, it finally came back, and they registered flat bass to 18hz in-room...in fact, in-room plus or minus 3db across the full 20hz-20khz spectrum in his Stereophile report using Richard Franasovicci's rrom (UK Absolute Sounds). And nearly that except for 5db drop off in super-low bass in his own room. Without proper setup, few speakers at this level are going to perform anywhere near where they are capable.)

Regardless of all the big improvement since 1994 with the Wilsons, particularly in coherence, noise floor, ease of macro and microdynamics, they remain speakers that require a system approach and incredibly astute installation. Its why DW provides trained installation for buyers, and in my own experience it makes all the difference.

 

[MadFloyd]

I have the Focals with the Be tweeter in my other room and it's just slightly better than the older titanium in my W/P7 ... but not near the smoothness and linearity of the tweeter in my Alexia's.

I have the same Focals as Bruce and think very highly of the tweeter - imo they are better than those in my Sashas and one of the best things about the monitors.. That said, I'm happy to hear that Bruce thinks the Alexia tweeters are superior since the Alexias are on my shopping list.