Another Power Article Based On What

[Kingrex]

Fundamentals of Residential AC Wiring to Improve High-End Audio System Performance - The Absolute Sound

Fundamentals of Residential AC Wiring to Improve High-End Audio System Performance - I repeat: Be smart here, give this paper to a licensed electrician and let him do the work. The main goal is thicker wall wire to the audio system. This may seem too simple but please read on.

www.theabsolutesound.com

Well, fundimentally, written by someone who doesn't know what their talking about. Some of it right. Plenty that is not at all advisable or just a waste of money. Fundimental concepts not even touched on. Power is more complex than you think. But also simple once you get it.

 

[Kingrex]

Nothing. Ok people are OK with the Absolute Sound publishing articles that are flawed and wrong on some levels. Lacking any real knowledge of the topic. But its ok. They are print. No one reads it anyways.

 

[Lee]

Nothing. Ok people are OK with the Absolute Sound publishing articles that are flawed and wrong on some levels. Lacking any real knowledge of the topic. But its ok. They are print. No one reads it anyways.

Why not write a point by point rebuttal here so we can learn from it?

 

[tony22]

Nothing. Ok people are OK with the Absolute Sound publishing articles that are flawed and wrong on some levels. Lacking any real knowledge of the topic. But its ok. They are print. No one reads it anyways.

Hey, I just saw this! You got a like from me. In my case I felt it wasn't worth commenting on. Just more of the same kind of stuff we find almost everywhere regarding our hobby.

 

[wil]

Hey, I just saw this! You got a like from me. In my case I felt it wasn't worth commenting on. Just more of the same kind of stuff we find almost everywhere regarding our hobby.

Specifics?

 

[audioguy3107]

That's quite the disclaimer there in the beginning.

 

[Kingrex]

I thought others would see the hype thats not true. Lack of understanding of what a ground does. Although that takes education to really understand. Silver paste. Wait till it oxidizes or arcs. Twisting Romex - and thats almost a complete block to RF??

It was written with no real knowledge of electrical theory. It bums me out stuff like that goes to print. Where was the editor.

 

[tima]

I thought others would see the hype thats not true. Lack of understanding of what a ground does. Although that takes education to really understand. Silver paste. Wait till it oxidizes or arcs. Twisting Romex - and thats almost a complete block to RF??

It was written with no real knowledge of electrical theory. It bums me out stuff like that goes to print. Where was the editor.

You say here and elsewhere that other articles and other authors are wrong. You say others have limited understanding and imply you know better. Without some positive contribution or effort to educate on your part, this comes across as mere self-promotion.

There's an opportunity for you here.

 

[Kingrex]

You say here and elsewhere that other articles and other authors are wrong. You say others have limited understanding and imply you know better. Without some positive contribution or effort to educate on your part, this comes across as mere self-promotion.

There's an opportunity for you here.

Sure. Can't argue tima. I use to get hosed by people when I first started, pumping me for information with no intention of ever paying me. I still get it. I'm just telling you, the article is flawed, don't take it as anything other than an opinion by an author with no background in the industry. I have been an electrician since 1995. And I still make minor adjustments here and there. Mostly following code changes.

 

[Bruce B]

Too bad these aren't peer-reviewed journals....

 

[tony22]

Specifics?

Another Power Article Based On What

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/fundamentals-of-residential-ac-wiring-to-improve-high-end-audio-system-performance/ Well, fundimentally, written by someone who doesn't know what their talking about. Some of it right. Plenty that is not at all advisable or just a waste of money...

www.whatsbestforum.com

I figured Rex would chime in pointing out a few things. Since Rex designed my power infrastructure, I was already aware of some of what I saw when I read that article (which has been around since about 2014, I think), but I thought I’d let him elaborate. He’s the licensed electrician and audiophile. I’m just a customer.

 

[wil]

Sure. Can't argue tima. I use to get hosed by people when I first started, pumping me for information with no intention of ever paying me. I still get it. I'm just telling you, the article is flawed, don't take it as anything other than an opinion by an author with no background in the industry. I have been an electrician since 1995. And I still make minor adjustments here and there. Mostly following code changes.

No background in the industry? Wasn’t this written by Vince Galbo, of MSB? Maybe he’s wrong on some things, I have no idea. But he’s certainly got some bona fides.

 

[ssfas]

Seems garbage to me. I have a 20 foot feed, Neotech NEP-4003, rated 27A (13AWG for Americans). My amp peaks at 8A max., has a fast blow 8AT fuse, the rest of the system might draw 1A at most.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...personally, I don't prefer the silver gunk long-term. I also wouldn't twist up Romex. The twist concept is good, but I would prefer single-conductor THHN wire. I use stranded. IIRC, Rex prefers solid. He's a honcho who has listened to this stuff, determined directionality, etc. 10 gauge works well for most applications, although there may be an outlet that accepts #8. IIRC the product image differed from the text re: max gauge. I do not recall the manufacturer, sorry. I like the Shunyata outlets, which I believe are made by Hubbell. Carry on.

 

[gleeds]

Nothing. Ok people are OK with the Absolute Sound publishing articles that are flawed and wrong on some levels. Lacking any real knowledge of the topic. But its ok. They are print. No one reads it anyways.

Kingrex, your reputation for power installation precedes you. A few counterpoints in the article would be helpful should you wish to offer them. There are power installation fundamentals, e.g., wire quality to the outlet, dedicated circuits, clean grounds, etc.. Then there are fine points for which you have tremendous experience, so anything you care to offer is welcome. Thank you.

Did someone say this was written by an industry sales professional or someone more steeped in electrical systems and engineering?


.

 

[microstrip]

Does TAS pay for damages after the whole house burns?

Too bad these aren't peer-reviewed journals....

Peer- reviewing internet myths?

Why not write a point by point rebuttal here so we can learn from it?

Lee,

IMO, the main problem is that TAS is loosing credibility when it calls such prose as a "paper". This is simply a repetition of a pamphlet type article written by a non expert that has been showing in audio blogs and forums for some years. Kingrex is basically correct in his appreciation of the article, I have nothing to add except I find the style disgusting - it is like he is telling children to play dangerous games with matches and says every two minutes - but do it with your parents supervision!

Surely this doesn't not mean everything on the article is false.

There are excellent articles about the advantages of twisting neutral and phase cables, why saying such vague barbarities?

The article refers to a prestigious well know DAC company - are they co-authors?

 

[Lee]

Does TAS pay for damages after the whole house burns?


Peer- reviewing internet myths?



Lee,

IMO, the main problem is that TAS is loosing credibility when it calls such prose as a "paper". This is simply a repetition of a pamphlet type article written by a non expert that has been showing in audio blogs and forums for some years. Kingrex is basically correct in his appreciation of the article, I have nothing to add except I find the style disgusting - it is like he is telling children to play dangerous games with matches and says every two minutes - but do it with your parents supervision!

Surely this doesn't not mean everything on the article is false.

There are excellent articles about the advantages of twisting neutral and phase cables, why saying such vague barbarities?

The article refers to a prestigious well know DAC company - are they co-authors?

I believe Vince is just sharing some things he has learned in the field. Vince is a very experienced guy and has guided two friends of mine in installing MSB DACs. He has always come across as knowledgeable and intelligent to me.

My request to Rex stands. Make a point by point rebuttal. We will learn from it if well done. You might be able to get it published in TAS as a letter to the Editor.

 

[Kingrex]

...personally, I don't prefer the silver gunk long-term. I also wouldn't twist up Romex. The twist concept is good, but I would prefer single-conductor THHN wire. I use stranded. IIRC, Rex prefers solid. He's a honcho who has listened to this stuff, determined directionality, etc. 10 gauge works well for most applications, although there may be an outlet that accepts #8. IIRC the product image differed from the text re: max gauge. I do not recall the manufacturer, sorry. I like the Shunyata outlets, which I believe are made by Hubbell. Carry on.

Correct. Don't try and twist Romex style cable. You might damage it. Too bad they don't make the round stuff anymore. Its all flat. And you will not get a twist tight enough to be worth much. Not unless it a 10 foot or so piece. And even then.
Twisting is more about rejecting EMF. Not so much RF. You need to shield.to reduce RF. But Ted D is correct in that your messing with the EMF field from the wire that may affect the way it conducts. I have never measured or really studied metal encased (shielded) vs not. I don't use metal as you have to ground the raceway and that limits the duplex you can use as virtually no audio grade duplex is isolated ground.

I have tried.twisting just the hot and neutral. And all 3, ground twisted too. On one job in particular, I had to run 2 sets of wire in a single pipe. HNG,HNG. I twisted the hot and neutral but not the ground. I left the 2 grounds loose. When I measure mV neutral to ground, I had 0 on both legs.

This is not using the duplex as intended. If you use a straight blade screwdriver and evenly splay a 8 awg wire in half at the end, then Deoxit, then fork the wire around a screw that is under a clamp, you will get a good termination. Do not do this with just a screw as the strands will spread and maybe arc or cherry.

 

[Kingrex]

Wil actually gave me this feedback. It mirrors what I read on professional forums and what I have experienced. Wil has a ground potted in Bentonite. A very good ground. Messing with stuff, his ground pulled loose from the rod in the earth. He could not discern any sonic change between connected and not connected. This is partly because his panel is made up correctly. Something sorely missing in the article.

Adding ground rods to a cold water or ufer ground provides no sonic benefit. Cold water and ufer grounds are probably under 2 ohms and rods are generally around 20 up to 800 ohms. Rods sort of suck. But they are good for one thing. Shunting a massive surge from Lightning to earth. If your in a very high lightning area and the utility power lines are above ground, a near strike on the power line can create such a surge at your home, it can blow the concrete footer apart with a ufer or burn holes in a copper water pipe. If you burn the rod connection, so what. The electricians fixing the damages service will drive a new rod.

Secondary rods to the yard, tied to ground boxes tied to chassis and signal grounds is a similar bad idea. Lots and lots of recorded data to prove the following. Earth is a poor conductor. A lightning strike to earth near your home doesn't end in the earth. It likes to climb up earth grounds, go through your service and out to utility grounds. Its does very unpredictable stuff. This can result in part of the surge going up your service ground at say 200,000 volts and part may go up your rod in the ground to ground boxes at 50,000 volts. Thats a 150,000 volt delta coupled to massive current. That has many many times burned up electronics in circuit boards.

 

[microstrip]

I believe Vince is just sharing some things he has learned in the field. Vince is a very experienced guy and has guided two friends of mine in installing MSB DACs. He has always come across as knowledgeable and intelligent to me.

I am not questing your experience, just the article and the magazine. IMO the magazine should have listed his credentials in this subject. And be clear that it is not an original contribution. I am a TAS subscriber and feel disappointed with such article - I hope is does not show in the printed version.

Publishing this article in such style opens a Pandora box.

Surely people can have different opinions of the subject.

My request to Rex stands. Make a point by point rebuttal. We will learn from it if well done. You might be able to get it published in TAS as a letter to the Editor.

We are posting on WBF. Will you directly comment any rebuttal in this forum?

My main criticism is the abusive general characteristic of the article. What is needed to MSB amplifiers is not forcefully needed to every system.

Next the general lack of rigour - e.g the Romex theory as stated in not correct. A 10 feet 12 awg power cable has a total resistance of around 50 mohms, negligible when compared with the referred generic - Ohms.