Alexx V arrive in NJ
- Thread starter marty
- Start date
I’d like to add to Marty’s post having also all too briefly hosting Mark at my home during his US visit. First, however, I’d like to thank Marty and his lovely wife Lisa for inviting me to their home for an incredibly delicious meal and listening session of the newly upgraded Helix. Having never been a huge fan of Wilson speakers, I was most impressed with Marty’s system. It was effortless and musical.
I had owned a very early version of the Dohmann Helix that I purchased second hand, but Mark had always been unfailingly supportive of my ownership. I had considered upgrading mine to a MkII, but my life circumstances have changed so I decided instead to part with it. Not only did Mark arrange for a buyer, but he went above and beyond to ensure the table was in top nick before it was shipped out. In addition to being fascinated by the level of engineering that has gone into a Helix, like Marty, I found Mark’s attention to detail and commitment to his product to be unflinching. The upgrade to the MKII not only required a couple of visits to an electronics supply house, but Mark also found a family owned machine shop about twenty minutes from my house where he had a part drilled because he wanted it to be perfect. Fortunately for Mark, I was able to introduce him to a NJ favorite of Taylor ham (pork roll), egg and cheese on a bagel while we waited for the work to be finished. Mark’s final reassembly of the table and packing in its flight case was meticulous. Just watching Mark do his thing made me question my decision to sell the Helix the entire time he was here.
Lastly, Mark also helped me reposition my speakers and counterintuitively remove the room treatments from my room, which completely transformed the abilities of my system in the most positive ways. All the while, we talked about life, music, spun records and just enjoyed each other’s company.
In sum, if you’re looking for an end game table with a state of the art suspension that isn’t stupid money (I can only say this on WBF forum) and want a genuine and incredible human in your corner, I can highly recommend Mark and his Helix. One day, I will own a MkIII (or IV).
Best,
Evan
hi Scott im impatiently waiting for my Alex v to show up next month and am currently running 10 year Classe m600s just curious if you've stuck with Classe or changed and what to.
Mundorf Angelique Copper Solid-Core 15awg DC cable
We've all seen reports about how DC cables can have major sonic consequences. This has been popularized most recently with the new Wadax Akasa DC cables. These are of course intended for Wadax users only due to their special design. They are also 20K each. Well, back in the real world of ordinary DC cables, I've been on the Taiko train for a while and currently use the Extreme (awaiting Olympus), Router, Switch and DCD. DC cables have always been a bit of a frustration as I've tried many and have been happy with none. However, I recently tried a new DC cable that I'm pleased to report has been a delightful surprise; namely the Mundorf Angelique Copper Solid-Core 15awg DC cable.
Everyone knows that Mundorf has specialized in using various alloys using silver and gold to make their highly rated DC cables and wires. However, they recently developed a new series of cables using a proprietary alloy formulation they call "Angelique". According to Mundorf, it offers some unique advantages as outlined below:
"Indeed, Mundorf is a bit proud that in countless elaborate listening sessions with different alloy ratios, they eventually succeeded in uniting the outstanding musical talents of Silver (structure, analytics, transparency) and Gold (multi-faceted tonality and brilliance) with the energy and liveliness of Copper in this one perfect alloy."
I've been pressuring Ghent to construct a DC cable from Mundorf Angelique for many months, and I'm thrilled that they finally added this to their product line. And the best news is- it's only $148 (shipped, for 0.5m length)!
DC-ACW115 (Solid-core) --- Mundorf Angelique Copper Solid-Core 15awg DC cable
Mundorf Angelique Copper Solid, 2 x 15awg wires PTFE Insulation --- Option: JSSG360 dual-shielding; --- Non-Direction cable: "Source/destination" just to identify connectors
www.ghentaudio.com
I was using the standard Mundorf silver/gold DC cable prior to the Angelique but always felt there was a slight "edge" in the 4K range that has been effectively remedied with Angelique. There is no down side I can hear and overall musicality (not too shabby to begin with) has been further improved as a result. Thus it was $148 very well spent in the bargain basement of Hi-Fi enhancements. YMMV of course but in my system it was a most worthy addition.
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I don't understand the whole DC cable thing myself. But I have not done any comparison, let alone a proper comparison.
But if there is a great sonic solution at that price level, I'm all for it!
But if there is a great sonic solution at that price level, I'm all for it!
Hello, I am starting my search for amplifier replacement and came across your thread. You recommend reading Heillbrun‘s review of JC1+, but when I search that name it comes back empty in WBF search engine. Is there another name or way to find his review? I have Vandersteen model 7mkii w/sub nines, Rowland corus preamp+psu (weak dac ps audio, which will be replaced as well). I am aware of RV’s amps, but the smaller lacks power/current to wake it up and I do not want to get into the $80k level. I feel like the pricing of “old” technology amps has just gotten out of control. I must be able to find exceptional quality at much lower price points. I get CH-Precision, but I also know how the Swiss build their pricing as I used to work for Swiss Semiconductor supplier… ;o). Thanks for any assistance! Note: also looking at the new PS Audio bhk600, maybe used Jeff Rowland 725ii or 735, …
. Thanks Jeff
Here's the JC1+ review:
www.theabsolutesound.com
I have no experience with the bhk600 but my guess is that it is a superb sounding amplifier.
Good luck!
Marty
Parasound JC 1+ Monoblock Power Amplifier - The Absolute Sound
Parasound JC 1+ Monoblock Power Amplifier - For years, the John-Curl-designed JC 1 has been a go-to bargain in big monoblock amps. Former JC 1 owner Jacob Heilbrunn puts Parasound’s new, greatly improved version of his old standby through its paces.
www.theabsolutesound.com
I have no experience with the bhk600 but my guess is that it is a superb sounding amplifier.
Good luck!
Marty
Seems after Wilson has rolled out all V series of their loudspeakers, Alexx gets a new round:
www.monoandstereo.com
Wilson Audio Introduces Alexx Vfx – M & S | Ultimate High-Fidelity
www.monoandstereo.com
Schnerzinger Allocator and Grid Protector arrives in NJ.
This thread hs been gathering dust for good reason as there's not much to say despite adding some not so insignificant gear such as a the Soulution 727 preamp last year, the Horizon 360 (discussed elsewhere) and a few odds and ends, all culminating in sonic benefits from gear that has been described extensively elsewhere. But after many years of participating in a hobby in which "the usual suspects" dominate these threads, I decided to post about some Schnerzinger gear that is not widely utilized or reported, in the hope it might be useful to others considering exploring this gear.
Part I
For most of us that have considered new or upgraded audio equipment over the years, the method of evaluation for new gear is generally grounded in evaluating some parameters that we think we understand innately. The changes we listen are sonic improvements or detriments that are generally based around physical parameters such as frequency response, amplitude, dynamics, distortion, and the tone of the music. However the Schnerzinger gear is a very different beast and at least for me, it took quite a while to wrap my arms around it as they have effects on human perception due to a sonic effect that lies mainly in the psychoacoustic domain which is not something we traditionally assess in our usual listening evaluations of reproduction audio gear.
As background, I was motivated to evaluate some of the Schnerzinger products based on the positive reviews of both WBF members here and other audiophiles worldwide. Fortunately, the Schnerzinger gear has been around for a number of years so I acquired some pieces on the used market at a very attractive price. My initial attraction was to their power distributor called the Allocator. This was based in a number of written observations. I was particularly impressed that after the installation of the Allocator, Steve noticed that a very low level buzz in his speakers was now effectively removed. Having heard Steve’s system many times, and hearing that buzz for myself and witnessing some of the efforts Steve made to remove it, albeit unsuccessfully, he installed the Allocator which banished that buzz once and for all. This seemed particular impressive as spurious low level noise and hum are gremlins that can plague even the best systems. Furthermore, despite many attempted solutions, nothing really removed Steve’s small buzz until it met its match in the Allocator. That alone seemed a good reason to try the Allocator in my system. Although I didn’t have the same specific low level buzz, I did notice some low level noise at very high preamp gain which, to make a long story very short, was definitely significantly reduced by the use of the Allocator.
Although the Allocator is thought to serve as single distributor hub for up to 10 AC power cables which, when all plugged into the Allocator, are thought to form an optimal grounding system that provides the best sound. I experimented a bit to see if I could confirm that in my system. The reason for these efforts were based on previous experience in which I never found a distributor that did not, in some way, even minor, detract from the sound I heard when plugging the same gear directly in the AC receptacle directly and bypassing any distributor/conditioner. Would the same observation be true now that the Allocator was being used?
Well, the answer is, yes and no. To begin, the most noticeable observation occurred with all my front end gear (Soulution 727 preamp, H360, Olympus, Zanden phono stage, Meitner SACD/CD transport) plugged into the Allocator. (The Gryphon Mephisto monoblocs each use their own 40 amp circuit located elsewhere.) At that point, I removed the Soulution 727 preamp from the Allocator and plugged the Soulution 727 preamp directly into a Shunyata Copper Conn AC wall outlet using the superb Stealth 2020 AC power cord. I then compared the sound of my system to that in which I plugged the 727 into the Allocator. I. Time and time again and in every instance, I preferred the 727 plugged into the wall outlet. I have some thoughts as to why that might have been the case, but will defer speculation for now.
However, much to my surprise, when I tried the same experiment by removing the H360 DAC from the Allocator and plugging it directly into the wall, the exact opposite result occurred. I always preferred the DAC plugged into the Allocator (using a Stealth digital AC power cord). The same was true for every other piece of gear in which I tried an Allocator connection versus a direct AC wall connection. The uniqueness of finding that bypassing the Allocator for the Soulution 727 only was perhaps surprising, but the results were unambiguous. I’m pleased to report that my system hum and noise level were also audibly improved, even with the renegade connection for the 727 directly into the wall outlet. So far so good. But here’s where things get more interesting.
The purported benefits of the Allocator as touted by Schnerzinger are several, including an optimized grounding system and inherent advantages of technologies such as a “high current supply line constructed with a BIDIRECTIONAL BARRIER with ATOMIC BONDING conductor material serves as the first barrier against interference fields radiated by the power grid and the environment.” I have no idea what the hell that means, but OK, let’s roll with that. But that’s not all the Allocator does. The real secret ingredient of the Allocator is its built-in GIGA CANCELING technology. This supposedly protects against high frequency interference fields between your audio devices. How does that work? Honestly, I have no clue.
As stated on their web site, “the principle of operation” is :
“All GIGA CANCELLING products are equipped with a receiver unit and a control unit:
The receiver unit detects and precisely analyses interference frequencies up to the high gigahertz range from the environment. The control unit then processes the recorded signals at high speed and absorbs them directly in the device according to the principle of antiphase cancellation.”
According to Schnerzinger, this results in sound in which
a) “the dynamic range is noticeably expanded, making the sound even more vivid and intense”.
b) “The result is spatial magic with incredible depth, a new dimension of fine detail and an atmosphere that brings the room to life. Instruments and voices not only appear clearer, but are also tangible in the room, as if the musicians were directly present”
c) Its “An experience that gets under your skin – intense, touching, absolutely real”.
So are all these true? Lets’ not get ahead of ourselves. However aside from the obvious hyperbole of creating sound that is “absolutely real” (I suggest we leave that to Steinway, Stradivari, Conn, God and few others who do not need to advertise their accomplishments) there’s a lot here to admire.
As many readers know, I have a scientific background so naturally the first question I wanted to explore is whether the benefits of the Grid protector, which neutralizes pernicious high frequencies that are detrimental to sonic perception, can be validated my any sort of reasonable measurement. Since there are hand-held meters that can measure ultra high bandwidth into the megahertz and gigahertz range, I sought one to play with. I bought a used the Gigahertz Solutions HF35C EMF METER High Frequency measure RFs for about $200.
The obvious questions are- what does this meter measure, and is what it measures important sonically? Simply put, the meter is high frequency analyzer for frequencies from 800 MHz to approximately 6 GHz. It measures radiation in either uW/m2 or mW/m2 (depending on the meter range chosen). As stated previously, it is within the high gigahertz range that the canceling technology of the Allocator operates to achieve its sonic effects. My hope was that I might be able to use the meter to look for obvious objective clues as to the device’s efficacy.
I then spent several days measuring every corner of my room and the adjacent rooms while my wife waited for any signs of impending insanity that might require medical treatment. Using the meter was a fun exercise and what I learned was interesting. It should be noted that although the meter measures radiation at various frequencies, the meter does not specify exactly what frequencies are being measured within that range. Therefore it’s not easy to say the sonic effects one observed with the Grid protector are caused by specific neutralization of specific frequencies. In other words, I really had no idea what precise frequencies I was measuring nor could make specific correlations for the sonic results I heard when using the Grid protector. For all I know, I was measuring the vapors of ghosts in my listening room. But whatever I was measuring, it was fun to use the meter to see if I could get a sense of at least some physical parameter I could measure that might correlate with the sound I heard using the Schnerzinger devices.
To begin, when I measured the high frequency radiation immediately adjacent the Allocator which was the center of the hornet’s nest of equipment AC cables, the meter reading, even on the highest sensitivity RMS scale, was “essentially zero! Zilch, Nada!
As I moved further about 5 feet away towards the first Gryphon monoblock, the radiation measurements increased significantly.
When I moved to the second monobloc about 10 feet away, the radiation measurements increase even further!
To be continued....
This thread hs been gathering dust for good reason as there's not much to say despite adding some not so insignificant gear such as a the Soulution 727 preamp last year, the Horizon 360 (discussed elsewhere) and a few odds and ends, all culminating in sonic benefits from gear that has been described extensively elsewhere. But after many years of participating in a hobby in which "the usual suspects" dominate these threads, I decided to post about some Schnerzinger gear that is not widely utilized or reported, in the hope it might be useful to others considering exploring this gear.
Part I
For most of us that have considered new or upgraded audio equipment over the years, the method of evaluation for new gear is generally grounded in evaluating some parameters that we think we understand innately. The changes we listen are sonic improvements or detriments that are generally based around physical parameters such as frequency response, amplitude, dynamics, distortion, and the tone of the music. However the Schnerzinger gear is a very different beast and at least for me, it took quite a while to wrap my arms around it as they have effects on human perception due to a sonic effect that lies mainly in the psychoacoustic domain which is not something we traditionally assess in our usual listening evaluations of reproduction audio gear.
As background, I was motivated to evaluate some of the Schnerzinger products based on the positive reviews of both WBF members here and other audiophiles worldwide. Fortunately, the Schnerzinger gear has been around for a number of years so I acquired some pieces on the used market at a very attractive price. My initial attraction was to their power distributor called the Allocator. This was based in a number of written observations. I was particularly impressed that after the installation of the Allocator, Steve noticed that a very low level buzz in his speakers was now effectively removed. Having heard Steve’s system many times, and hearing that buzz for myself and witnessing some of the efforts Steve made to remove it, albeit unsuccessfully, he installed the Allocator which banished that buzz once and for all. This seemed particular impressive as spurious low level noise and hum are gremlins that can plague even the best systems. Furthermore, despite many attempted solutions, nothing really removed Steve’s small buzz until it met its match in the Allocator. That alone seemed a good reason to try the Allocator in my system. Although I didn’t have the same specific low level buzz, I did notice some low level noise at very high preamp gain which, to make a long story very short, was definitely significantly reduced by the use of the Allocator.
Although the Allocator is thought to serve as single distributor hub for up to 10 AC power cables which, when all plugged into the Allocator, are thought to form an optimal grounding system that provides the best sound. I experimented a bit to see if I could confirm that in my system. The reason for these efforts were based on previous experience in which I never found a distributor that did not, in some way, even minor, detract from the sound I heard when plugging the same gear directly in the AC receptacle directly and bypassing any distributor/conditioner. Would the same observation be true now that the Allocator was being used?
Well, the answer is, yes and no. To begin, the most noticeable observation occurred with all my front end gear (Soulution 727 preamp, H360, Olympus, Zanden phono stage, Meitner SACD/CD transport) plugged into the Allocator. (The Gryphon Mephisto monoblocs each use their own 40 amp circuit located elsewhere.) At that point, I removed the Soulution 727 preamp from the Allocator and plugged the Soulution 727 preamp directly into a Shunyata Copper Conn AC wall outlet using the superb Stealth 2020 AC power cord. I then compared the sound of my system to that in which I plugged the 727 into the Allocator. I. Time and time again and in every instance, I preferred the 727 plugged into the wall outlet. I have some thoughts as to why that might have been the case, but will defer speculation for now.
However, much to my surprise, when I tried the same experiment by removing the H360 DAC from the Allocator and plugging it directly into the wall, the exact opposite result occurred. I always preferred the DAC plugged into the Allocator (using a Stealth digital AC power cord). The same was true for every other piece of gear in which I tried an Allocator connection versus a direct AC wall connection. The uniqueness of finding that bypassing the Allocator for the Soulution 727 only was perhaps surprising, but the results were unambiguous. I’m pleased to report that my system hum and noise level were also audibly improved, even with the renegade connection for the 727 directly into the wall outlet. So far so good. But here’s where things get more interesting.
The purported benefits of the Allocator as touted by Schnerzinger are several, including an optimized grounding system and inherent advantages of technologies such as a “high current supply line constructed with a BIDIRECTIONAL BARRIER with ATOMIC BONDING conductor material serves as the first barrier against interference fields radiated by the power grid and the environment.” I have no idea what the hell that means, but OK, let’s roll with that. But that’s not all the Allocator does. The real secret ingredient of the Allocator is its built-in GIGA CANCELING technology. This supposedly protects against high frequency interference fields between your audio devices. How does that work? Honestly, I have no clue.
As stated on their web site, “the principle of operation” is :
“All GIGA CANCELLING products are equipped with a receiver unit and a control unit:
The receiver unit detects and precisely analyses interference frequencies up to the high gigahertz range from the environment. The control unit then processes the recorded signals at high speed and absorbs them directly in the device according to the principle of antiphase cancellation.”
According to Schnerzinger, this results in sound in which
a) “the dynamic range is noticeably expanded, making the sound even more vivid and intense”.
b) “The result is spatial magic with incredible depth, a new dimension of fine detail and an atmosphere that brings the room to life. Instruments and voices not only appear clearer, but are also tangible in the room, as if the musicians were directly present”
c) Its “An experience that gets under your skin – intense, touching, absolutely real”.
So are all these true? Lets’ not get ahead of ourselves. However aside from the obvious hyperbole of creating sound that is “absolutely real” (I suggest we leave that to Steinway, Stradivari, Conn, God and few others who do not need to advertise their accomplishments) there’s a lot here to admire.
As many readers know, I have a scientific background so naturally the first question I wanted to explore is whether the benefits of the Grid protector, which neutralizes pernicious high frequencies that are detrimental to sonic perception, can be validated my any sort of reasonable measurement. Since there are hand-held meters that can measure ultra high bandwidth into the megahertz and gigahertz range, I sought one to play with. I bought a used the Gigahertz Solutions HF35C EMF METER High Frequency measure RFs for about $200.
The obvious questions are- what does this meter measure, and is what it measures important sonically? Simply put, the meter is high frequency analyzer for frequencies from 800 MHz to approximately 6 GHz. It measures radiation in either uW/m2 or mW/m2 (depending on the meter range chosen). As stated previously, it is within the high gigahertz range that the canceling technology of the Allocator operates to achieve its sonic effects. My hope was that I might be able to use the meter to look for obvious objective clues as to the device’s efficacy.
I then spent several days measuring every corner of my room and the adjacent rooms while my wife waited for any signs of impending insanity that might require medical treatment. Using the meter was a fun exercise and what I learned was interesting. It should be noted that although the meter measures radiation at various frequencies, the meter does not specify exactly what frequencies are being measured within that range. Therefore it’s not easy to say the sonic effects one observed with the Grid protector are caused by specific neutralization of specific frequencies. In other words, I really had no idea what precise frequencies I was measuring nor could make specific correlations for the sonic results I heard when using the Grid protector. For all I know, I was measuring the vapors of ghosts in my listening room. But whatever I was measuring, it was fun to use the meter to see if I could get a sense of at least some physical parameter I could measure that might correlate with the sound I heard using the Schnerzinger devices.
To begin, when I measured the high frequency radiation immediately adjacent the Allocator which was the center of the hornet’s nest of equipment AC cables, the meter reading, even on the highest sensitivity RMS scale, was “essentially zero! Zilch, Nada!
As I moved further about 5 feet away towards the first Gryphon monoblock, the radiation measurements increased significantly.
When I moved to the second monobloc about 10 feet away, the radiation measurements increase even further!
To be continued....
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Part 2
I recall some time ago asking the distributor why one would need a separate grid protector if the one built into the Allocator was effective? He replied that the Grid protection circuitry in the Allocator was, not surprisingly, limited by its range of effectiveness and that a separate Grid Protector would provide increased area coverage in one’s listening room. This was supported by my initial measurements that showed a clear operational effectiveness as a function of distance from the Allocator.
My confidence in the added efficacy of a separate Grid Protector was supported by measurements using the HF35C EMF meter. Remeasuring the radiation of the second Mephisto solo (previously 192.3) with the second Grid protector in place, now showed a reading of about 50. (This is a reduction of about 75% and perhaps more meaningful considering the separate Grid Protector was about 6 feet away on the other side of a wall! (Not really a surprise as wood is not an effective barrier to radiation in the frequency range of our concern).
So much for power flux density measurements I really don’t understand. What did I hear? Here’s where typical descriptors are not as useful as I’d like. Many listeners have commented that they hear what is described as additional clarity or purity of their music which allows for increased perception of instrument placement within the sound field. Other believe they have better resolution and detail of instruments within the sound field as well. I concur but I’d prefer to describe the effect of the device as simply being able to hear more of what the microphones are presumable hearing, as if some unseen barrier was suddenly eliminated.
I usually think of gear that moderates music reproduction has having an effect in either the frequency or temporal domain. In this case, it seems to be both. I think I read somewhere on the Schnerzinger site that some listeners experienced a slight subjective change in frequency response such that the midband appeared de-emphasized and less forward in part because the midbass and deep bass seemed enhanced. Mind you, none of this was measured objectively, but rather these were subjective perceptual findings. I understand this observation and agree that the Grid protector did reveal, at least in my system, a slightly more enjoyable and less mid-band forward presentation. Unmeasureable objectively? Perhaps, although I did not try to attempt a frequency response measurement (I do not have the tools for such precise analysis). But it sure seems as though overall tonal balance was a wee bit effected in a positive way. Is the right term “less hi-fi’? Well that should make any audiophile bristle. After all who wants to think they have a system that sounds even remotely “hi-fi”? Hmmm, could it be that we all do to some degree? Or is that too much anathema for now to even be considered?
After about a month of listening, I decided to continue exploring the Schnerzinger devices by ordering a separate Grid Protector so see if I there would be a benefit to extending the effects of the built-in GP in the Allocator to a wider area of my room and listening for any further sonic benefits that might result. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that indeed, placing a separate GP more centrally did have easily perceived benefits. The only caveat that I would mention is that the separate GP has individual bandwidth, timing and power settings that can be added as one’s discretion. What I found particularly interesting is that, at least in my case, it turns out that you can have too much a good thing as certain settings clearly had negative sonic effects in my system. For example, in every case where I used a setting in the II position instead of the I position, there was something preternatural about the sound that I didn’t like. Since we’ve already exhausted thousands of posts to no avail trying to define what “natural” means, I’m hardly going to try and explain preternatural beyond what the dictionary says. All I’m willing to say is that it was as if something extra was added to the sound that shouldn’t be there although I am unable to be more precise. All I know is that it just didn’t sound right. In addition, with some settings, dynamics were meaningfully compromised. In short, for me, the best setting was not to use the additional 12v power supply at all, but stick with the standard supply with settings (reading the back of the unit from L to R) of ” 0-I-I”. Put another way, playing around with the settings led me to conclude that with these devices, it can easily be demonstrated that some setting might provide too much of a good thing to be completely enjoyable, at least for me.
Not surprising, most of the reviews I have read about the Schnerzinger products are very enthusiastic, but contain little that is negative or derogatory about their performance, They lead one to conclude, erroneously, that these devices can’t do anything but provide good and desireble sonic benefits, and that is always something that is a bit of a red flag for me as I didn’t find that to be the case. Upon further reading, there are reviews that do report some objectionable findings, which wisely suggests that these devices may not be for everybody or every system, at least suggesting that the best way to evaluate them is, as always, in your own system.
On the other hand, using the Allocator and the Grid Protector in a beneficial way with the settings optimized for my system, provided enhanced listening pleasure that, as far as I can tell, has no downside, at least for me.. To be honest, it would just be foolish to say something like YMMV here. At this point, I’d be surprised if this were NOT the case!
I’ve been asked what percent of benefit did I gain by adding a separate Grid Protector as opposed to the benefit gained by the GP built into the Allocator? I’d say that the gain from the Allocator was single-handedly, the most important device as it resulted in both sonic attributes and genuine reduction of system noise. The addition of the second GP provided additional sonic refinement but quantifying that is difficult. If I had to provide a number I would say perhaps 25-40% but I’m not sure this is helpful. It might be more useful to say that whatever the Allocator is doing, the separate Grip Protector provided more of the same sonically which makes me think even less about what the Allocator alone might be doing- if that makes any sense. Like I said earlier, this sort of listening requires descriptors that I’m uncomfortable using, and even more uncomfortable explaining what they mean.
I’d like to conclude by saying I wouldn’t tell anyone they must to rush out and buy one of these devices. First, you may find that these devices do not float your boat so the wisest approach would surely be to try them before you buy them. I didn’t do so because I bought them on the used market, knowing I’d probably have to sell them at a slight loss if I decided not to keep them. Second, these are not inexpensive devices. The question every audiophile asks is whether money of that amount could better be used to improve one’s system elsewhere? All I can say to that is that these devices would not be the first place I’d spend 5 or 10K of my money in most systems. But if you asked me what the last place I might be willing to spend that kind of money on in my system, the Schnerzinger Allocator and Grid Protector would certainly be among those considerations. Quieter electrical system noise and a surprising palpable improvement in “believability" presumably as a result of what the microphones are hearing and transferring in the recording chain were the benefits I heard. What’s not to like? (Aside from the fact that I have no real understanding of how they accomplish their impressive feat!)
I recall some time ago asking the distributor why one would need a separate grid protector if the one built into the Allocator was effective? He replied that the Grid protection circuitry in the Allocator was, not surprisingly, limited by its range of effectiveness and that a separate Grid Protector would provide increased area coverage in one’s listening room. This was supported by my initial measurements that showed a clear operational effectiveness as a function of distance from the Allocator.
My confidence in the added efficacy of a separate Grid Protector was supported by measurements using the HF35C EMF meter. Remeasuring the radiation of the second Mephisto solo (previously 192.3) with the second Grid protector in place, now showed a reading of about 50. (This is a reduction of about 75% and perhaps more meaningful considering the separate Grid Protector was about 6 feet away on the other side of a wall! (Not really a surprise as wood is not an effective barrier to radiation in the frequency range of our concern).
So much for power flux density measurements I really don’t understand. What did I hear? Here’s where typical descriptors are not as useful as I’d like. Many listeners have commented that they hear what is described as additional clarity or purity of their music which allows for increased perception of instrument placement within the sound field. Other believe they have better resolution and detail of instruments within the sound field as well. I concur but I’d prefer to describe the effect of the device as simply being able to hear more of what the microphones are presumable hearing, as if some unseen barrier was suddenly eliminated.
I usually think of gear that moderates music reproduction has having an effect in either the frequency or temporal domain. In this case, it seems to be both. I think I read somewhere on the Schnerzinger site that some listeners experienced a slight subjective change in frequency response such that the midband appeared de-emphasized and less forward in part because the midbass and deep bass seemed enhanced. Mind you, none of this was measured objectively, but rather these were subjective perceptual findings. I understand this observation and agree that the Grid protector did reveal, at least in my system, a slightly more enjoyable and less mid-band forward presentation. Unmeasureable objectively? Perhaps, although I did not try to attempt a frequency response measurement (I do not have the tools for such precise analysis). But it sure seems as though overall tonal balance was a wee bit effected in a positive way. Is the right term “less hi-fi’? Well that should make any audiophile bristle. After all who wants to think they have a system that sounds even remotely “hi-fi”? Hmmm, could it be that we all do to some degree? Or is that too much anathema for now to even be considered?
After about a month of listening, I decided to continue exploring the Schnerzinger devices by ordering a separate Grid Protector so see if I there would be a benefit to extending the effects of the built-in GP in the Allocator to a wider area of my room and listening for any further sonic benefits that might result. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that indeed, placing a separate GP more centrally did have easily perceived benefits. The only caveat that I would mention is that the separate GP has individual bandwidth, timing and power settings that can be added as one’s discretion. What I found particularly interesting is that, at least in my case, it turns out that you can have too much a good thing as certain settings clearly had negative sonic effects in my system. For example, in every case where I used a setting in the II position instead of the I position, there was something preternatural about the sound that I didn’t like. Since we’ve already exhausted thousands of posts to no avail trying to define what “natural” means, I’m hardly going to try and explain preternatural beyond what the dictionary says. All I’m willing to say is that it was as if something extra was added to the sound that shouldn’t be there although I am unable to be more precise. All I know is that it just didn’t sound right. In addition, with some settings, dynamics were meaningfully compromised. In short, for me, the best setting was not to use the additional 12v power supply at all, but stick with the standard supply with settings (reading the back of the unit from L to R) of ” 0-I-I”. Put another way, playing around with the settings led me to conclude that with these devices, it can easily be demonstrated that some setting might provide too much of a good thing to be completely enjoyable, at least for me.
Not surprising, most of the reviews I have read about the Schnerzinger products are very enthusiastic, but contain little that is negative or derogatory about their performance, They lead one to conclude, erroneously, that these devices can’t do anything but provide good and desireble sonic benefits, and that is always something that is a bit of a red flag for me as I didn’t find that to be the case. Upon further reading, there are reviews that do report some objectionable findings, which wisely suggests that these devices may not be for everybody or every system, at least suggesting that the best way to evaluate them is, as always, in your own system.
On the other hand, using the Allocator and the Grid Protector in a beneficial way with the settings optimized for my system, provided enhanced listening pleasure that, as far as I can tell, has no downside, at least for me.. To be honest, it would just be foolish to say something like YMMV here. At this point, I’d be surprised if this were NOT the case!
I’ve been asked what percent of benefit did I gain by adding a separate Grid Protector as opposed to the benefit gained by the GP built into the Allocator? I’d say that the gain from the Allocator was single-handedly, the most important device as it resulted in both sonic attributes and genuine reduction of system noise. The addition of the second GP provided additional sonic refinement but quantifying that is difficult. If I had to provide a number I would say perhaps 25-40% but I’m not sure this is helpful. It might be more useful to say that whatever the Allocator is doing, the separate Grip Protector provided more of the same sonically which makes me think even less about what the Allocator alone might be doing- if that makes any sense. Like I said earlier, this sort of listening requires descriptors that I’m uncomfortable using, and even more uncomfortable explaining what they mean.
I’d like to conclude by saying I wouldn’t tell anyone they must to rush out and buy one of these devices. First, you may find that these devices do not float your boat so the wisest approach would surely be to try them before you buy them. I didn’t do so because I bought them on the used market, knowing I’d probably have to sell them at a slight loss if I decided not to keep them. Second, these are not inexpensive devices. The question every audiophile asks is whether money of that amount could better be used to improve one’s system elsewhere? All I can say to that is that these devices would not be the first place I’d spend 5 or 10K of my money in most systems. But if you asked me what the last place I might be willing to spend that kind of money on in my system, the Schnerzinger Allocator and Grid Protector would certainly be among those considerations. Quieter electrical system noise and a surprising palpable improvement in “believability" presumably as a result of what the microphones are hearing and transferring in the recording chain were the benefits I heard. What’s not to like? (Aside from the fact that I have no real understanding of how they accomplish their impressive feat!)
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Marty, they should add you in the Oxford English Dictionary under the word “thorough”!
I have been looking at the Synergistic Black Boxes which are completely passive devices utilized in corners and middle of front or back walls…apparently work well in smoothing out bass.
Your sign off on some of their work gives me a lot of comfort.
I have been looking at the Synergistic Black Boxes which are completely passive devices utilized in corners and middle of front or back walls…apparently work well in smoothing out bass.
Your sign off on some of their work gives me a lot of comfort.
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Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Well now tha youve started I would suggest getting the EMI protector and the multi guards in your system because youll be pleasantly surprised.
AS to using position ll and it being unnatural of course you use either l or 0. Everyone hss a system dependent use of these devices so once you know that ll doesnt work you scale back to 0 or l Finally you also seemed to set these devices up contrary to how the instructions suggest
Lastly im looking forward to receiving the Reflector. as from what I have read that is where the biggest bang for the buck is
Glad you found some science behind them and some sonic improvement. I would suggest that these add nothing to ones system but rather. what they. remove that make them so special. I hope. you venture on and integrate the EMI Protector with he Grid Protector and give some thought to the multiguards
For my ears and my system I just cannot listen without them. II think they are very special but once again they are system dependent. Try resetting your Grid protector according to the manual and finally you might want to consider replacing the wall wart with DC power supply. You might be surprised
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Marty. I’m curious as to your finding these on the used market as to the best of my knowledge I’ve been searching forever and have yet to find any of these available.My next door neighbor wants them but has been searching the used market. All we found are older versions My only thought is that the units that were sold to you are old version of Allocator and grid protector. Could you please post a picture of your Allicator as well as the grid protector front and back. Does your grid protector have one or two power sources. . A picture would be most helpful. AFAIK when I purchased my units they are the latest most up to date versions. Schnerzinger had made these. for years and are always improving them. So for the sense of all understanding photos will clearly tell which versions you have. There are many Schnerzinger users in Germany who post regularly and have used these units for years. Seeing photos of theirs and current versions is helpful. Reading their posts and hearing their changes to me was very telling I’ve searched the market for months looking for used units and all I have found are older used units out of the EU. My thoughts are you have older versions If you have a chance try DC power for your grid protector. Im miffed as to your preamp sounding better from the wall but I believe you. I have all 10 sockets filled on my allocators with audible benefit from each one.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
More questions to help understand. Have you tried the grid in different room locations and is the grid in the floor or elevated 40” as recommended. I noticed big change when I elevated my 3 units as the manual suggests
The units I bought are current and were obtained privately through word of mouth. Believe it or not, people sell stuff they buy for various reasons. I just got lucky for availability and price. I've tried various locations for the GP only (as you know, the Allocator has limited placement potential based on the location of the adjacent equipment that plugs into it.)
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Well good job as Ive been searching for months with my next door neighbor who heard mine. Try raising the Grid Protector 40" off the ground and rather than the wall wart that comes with it , try using DC. You might be somewhat surprised
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