AGon train wreck
- Thread starter Glory
- Start date
Transaction fees are between me and Paypal. If the Paypal terms and conditions stipulate I am not allowed to use pay as gift feature when the payment is not a gift, they could sue me for the fees.
Since the intent if for this transaction is to be payment for goods, the buyer could even sue me if I don't deliver the goods. I could not use the "it was a gift" argument as legal defense, if he can produce email trail that shows we simply agreed to do this to avoid fees, but it was never intended to be a gift. In law what matters is intent.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
well one could say that you had the intent to deceive
My intent was to "to avoid fees". I likely did this without violating the terms of my agreements with paypal (i'd have to check), so "deceive" is overstating the case.
I understand the frustration but on Agon's behalf, in the not too distant past they had many people making deals on the side and cutting Audiogon out after the sale. I don't like it when a bill shows up in my inbox before I even know a sale is complete but I still don't know of a better place to move equipment. Last week I placed an ad for $5k+ speaker cables and they were purchased in 11 minutes at my asking price plus Paypal fee. I can put up with some of the BS for that kind of turn around.
What's interesting to me is that the new owners seem to be much more focused on other ways to attract people to the site and monetize it than simply operating what was the core business of Agon- acting as a clearinghouse for third party sales and purchases of used/new equipment. They have added all kinds of features and are trying to follow a content rich, social media model, while at the same time, due to software bugs and the 'new' model for business*, they have had countless problems over the core buy/sell business. I do post occasionally on the fora there, but treating the buy/sell function as a part, rather than the central aspect of their business, is a mistake.
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*The 'new business' model - and this seems to apply to all kinds of companies these days- is to minimize the amount of actual service people behind the veil. Instead, you are forced to communicate by message feature and await a response. It is used for everything from medical services to your cable TV support functions. It may reduce the overhead of the business in having to staff a back office with competent support staff, but it makes for an inhuman and largely negative customer experience. One thing I'll say about Amazon, if you have ever used them- their customer service is unparalleled, particularly for such a massive enterprise. You can punch your phone number into a support 'call me' box, your phone rings instantly, and you get a human being on the phone. No waiting. In fact, if you do the 'call me' during normal business hours, you usually get support staff at the main Amazon support centers, and can even specify what type of support you need, for what product. Contrast that with my cable company. You have to search the site to find a phone number because they'd rather force you to do robot-chat, with a 'did that answer your question?' punchline. Then, you are hold for 25 minutes, only to get a person that may or may not even be the right person to answer your question or address the problem. Makes Orwell's 1984 look like a better future than the one we got.
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*The 'new business' model - and this seems to apply to all kinds of companies these days- is to minimize the amount of actual service people behind the veil. Instead, you are forced to communicate by message feature and await a response. It is used for everything from medical services to your cable TV support functions. It may reduce the overhead of the business in having to staff a back office with competent support staff, but it makes for an inhuman and largely negative customer experience. One thing I'll say about Amazon, if you have ever used them- their customer service is unparalleled, particularly for such a massive enterprise. You can punch your phone number into a support 'call me' box, your phone rings instantly, and you get a human being on the phone. No waiting. In fact, if you do the 'call me' during normal business hours, you usually get support staff at the main Amazon support centers, and can even specify what type of support you need, for what product. Contrast that with my cable company. You have to search the site to find a phone number because they'd rather force you to do robot-chat, with a 'did that answer your question?' punchline. Then, you are hold for 25 minutes, only to get a person that may or may not even be the right person to answer your question or address the problem. Makes Orwell's 1984 look like a better future than the one we got.
I don't mind paying the audiogon fees. I think they are fair and reaonable. I repented and am not trying to cut them out of any transactions anymore - the $100 cap helps. It is just that the site and processes are all screwed up.
The annual gift tax is $14,000 for 2013 and you are also permitted to gift $5,120,000 during your life without incurring gift tax. For amounts about $14,000 you need to file a gift tax return. However, I don't think in this situation it would be construed as a gift since there was money sent in exchange for goods being delivered. A possible issue could arise if buyer sends payment as gift and the seller never delivers the goods. If the seller was dishonest, he could claim the payment was a gift. I'm sure it would be easy to prove otherwise. Although the intent was to avoid fees, isn't there deception in the intent to avoid fees since the transaction in fact was payment for goods, not a personal gift?
you dont have to send it as a "gift" there are other options like "payment owed" which is what i use to send a recieve payments w/o fees attached. yes, there is no recourse but its no diferent than sending a check. payment owed can have many connotations and im not sure what paypal's exposure is here if you claim you were defrauded the IRS does have an interest in your paypal account if you're accepting payments with fees as goods sold and you reach an annual threshold on transactions. ask me how i know
the IRS does have an interest in your paypal account if you're accepting payments with fees as goods sold and you reach an annual threshold on transactions. ask me how i knowyou dont have to send it as a "gift" there are other options like "payment owed" which is what i use to send a recieve payments w/o fees attached. yes, there is no recourse but its no diferent than sending a check. payment owed can have many connotations and im not sure what paypal's exposure is here if you claim you were defrauded
Thanks for telling me. I'll use that option in the future if needed. I'd doubt there will be any recourse from PayPal, but that is only reasonable because as with credit card companies most of the fees are probably used to cover cost of dispute settlement and fraud. So no fees, no recourse.
Steve-I don't believe your usage of the word perseverate in the above sentence was correct. And the reason why is that I don't perseverate. I will quit waving goodbye to you before you get out of my driveway let alone after you have already left and are down the street out of eyesight.
I mind paying the transaction fee. For years there was none. Now after the TW they want 2%? Joke!!
Don't send me a bill for the transaction until I mark it paid in full. Don't bind up my ad till I mark it paid in full. Answer emails. Go back to the old Gon.
Don't send me a bill for the transaction until I mark it paid in full. Don't bind up my ad till I mark it paid in full. Answer emails. Go back to the old Gon.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Look up the definition and tell me how it fits in the sentence. As a verb, perseverate means to continue to do something after the stimulus for the action is removed. An example that was given was to keep waving goodbye to someone long after they have left which is why I said I would stop waving goodbye to you before you could get out of my driveway. I don't perseverate.
So here is another part of the TW.
Threads have monitors that allow crazy stuff to go through and then block simple posts that harm no one. You can not say anything negative about $$$ paying advertising members. Huge politics going on. I for one will not post there for this reason. I do appreciate this site and the freedom found here.
Threads have monitors that allow crazy stuff to go through and then block simple posts that harm no one. You can not say anything negative about $$$ paying advertising members. Huge politics going on. I for one will not post there for this reason. I do appreciate this site and the freedom found here.
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