Wow, those income charts are amazing.. I don't see 'videographer' on them. I guess I'm below the 10th percentile on income.
Nor loudspeaker designer..... I don't think high-end manufacturers need apply either
A question of value in today's hi-end.
- Thread starter DaveyF
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Nor loudspeaker designer..... I don't think high-end manufacturers need apply either
When I got into this hobby in the mid-seventies, it was possible for almost anyone to assemble a stereo system that was reasonably close to the SOTA. Either Klipschorns or something like used KLH 9's, Accoustat X'es or Dahlquist DP-10 w/sub, Audio Research or Threshhold electronics, Linn T-table, Grado or Dynavector cartridge, Radio Shack cables and you were at about $5-7 k, roughly the cost of an entry-level luxury car (e.g. BMW 320i). Today, for roughly the cost of that BMW 325i you could assemble a very nice-sounding system, but monetarily it would be far from the SOTA.
I think the introduction of the IRS was the beginning of the explosion in pricing at the upper end of the market.
I think the introduction of the IRS was the beginning of the explosion in pricing at the upper end of the market.
Wow, I'm really learning something here...love it
OTOH, I'm not really too sure as to how all this has to do with my
OP
A faster driver (speed; lower inductance of the voice coil)
is a good measure value of a good high-end system?
Back in the late '50s, we saw the rise of kits. Loudspeaker systems, tube amplifier kits, coaxial speakers like the Pentaflux III and the University 3-way Diffaxial, cabinets like the E-V Aristocrat and similar kits from Allied Radio.
Of course, high end in those days meant you bought your speakers from Rudy Bozak. He manufactured loudspeakers here in Connecticut, using a proprietary pulp that almost nobody knew the composition of.
Us poor folks played with triode tubes and cobbled together OTL designs in our basements, often using voltage doubling rectifiers that run directly off the line with no transformers at all.
Those were fun days. Today's stuff is scary. I can't see what's going on inside an IC. But I used to be able to tell the health of a 6V6-GT or a 6550 just by looking at it in operation. And if anything broke, I could fix it with parts in my cellar. Not anymore!
Of course, high end in those days meant you bought your speakers from Rudy Bozak. He manufactured loudspeakers here in Connecticut, using a proprietary pulp that almost nobody knew the composition of.
Us poor folks played with triode tubes and cobbled together OTL designs in our basements, often using voltage doubling rectifiers that run directly off the line with no transformers at all.
Those were fun days. Today's stuff is scary. I can't see what's going on inside an IC. But I used to be able to tell the health of a 6V6-GT or a 6550 just by looking at it in operation. And if anything broke, I could fix it with parts in my cellar. Not anymore!
But Bill, what is the true value, the price (more or less $$) equation, or the sound (quality or superiority) equation?
Very good point Mark, and I fully agree. It is similar with cars...
In a turntable you are still allow to fix things yourself (azymuth) as you can see the parts in actual operation.
But in a CD player how can you adjust the alignment of the tracking from the laser lens?
...Unless you have the measurement tools and the expertise to use the software.
Just look at multichannel pre/amps nowadays! You need to be a computer expert!
Audio today encompasses much more than simple good sound; it incites you to become a part of the design and its most secret intricacies. You need to become involved with engineering in order to fix and improved the value, the sound fidelity, and the high-end!
It's all about accurate sound reproduction first.
I don't understand what you are getting at. I thought the post I cited showed that that person was not really thinking seriously about value. When you go through the buy-sell-buy cycle, you are usually paying money at every step. (I'm thinking of transaction costs when you sell things as well as purchase price when you purchase.)
Buy the Bryston and keep it for years - good value
Wait until you can afford an ARC (new or used), buy it and keep it for years - good value
Buy the Bryston, sell it quickly and buy the ARC - lousy value
Doing your research before you buy and then keeping that item for a long time maximizes value. If you are talking about value and churning equipment, you are just blowing smoke.
Bill
Buy the bryston
So it is all related to TIME then! Timing is everything! And patience is an ART in itself.
Enjoying the Music in the now is the true VALUE!
Bob
I'd buy the ARC!
Enjoying the Music in the now is the true VALUE!
Bob
I'd buy the ARC!
Buy the Bryston and keep it for years - good value/so-so sound
Wait until you can afford an ARC (new or used), buy it and keep it for years - good value/good sound
Buy the Bryston, sell it quickly and buy the ARC - lousy value but you realized you really didn't like the Bryston and it cost you some cash to dump it, but now you have good sound.
Sell the Bryston
Wait until you can afford an ARC (new or used), buy it and keep it for years - good value/good sound
Buy the Bryston, sell it quickly and buy the ARC - lousy value but you realized you really didn't like the Bryston and it cost you some cash to dump it, but now you have good sound.
Sell the Bryston
Why the assumption that the Bryston has lousy sound? The owner says he's happy with it; it's certainly had some outstanding reviews. You're the one assuming he's unhappy with the sound of it; I don't see that in the original post. I haven't heard either of the players mentioned, though.
There are times when I should buy something now and start getting the benefit immediately. There are other times when I should wait until I can make the right decision (and afford it.) And I can't afford to buy everything I might want at the same time. The trick for me is to know which way to go in a particular situation.
In 2002, I was researching on the web for a car purchase. I was struck by all the posts from young guys who bought a Honda Civic and then spent lots of money on fancy wheels, loud exhaust, aero kit and a big wing and a cold air intake. With a bit of patience they could have bought a car that was way more powerful, handled better and had more status.
On the other hand, life is finite and you don't want to wind up at 85 with money to spend but without the vision, hearing or mobility to enjoy it.
Bill
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Bryston makes solid gear that comes with a 20 year warranty. Even if you don't love the way it sounds, it comes with a 20 year warranty. And if you decide you don't like it, the warranty is transferrable so you can use that as a selling point.
Very true. And you must also consider that for most people audio is an hobby, and exploiting the differences between equipments is also part of the game.
For me a car is just a wasy to displace myself (preferably with confort, reliability and safety). Some of my friends enjoy their cars, buy car magazines, exchange them often, organize dinners to discuss them. Surely it costs money, but is part of their life and we respect it.
For some audiophiles, spending money seems to be the essence of the hobby. They don't seem to put much effort into research or to be disciplined about their purchases. I don't have much in common with such people.
I spend money to solve problems. Researching the problem and deciding on a solution are pleasant activities for me. Achieving a solution such as better sound by spending money feels very good indeed. Living my life as I chose with possessions I created or selected feels very good. Doing that with limited resources is a necessity for me.
Cars that handle well are an interest for me. Adequate power is good too. I am willing to spend extra money to get cars that are fun to drive. I try to be a careful buyer there too.
Viewing wildflowers and wildlife and photographing them is another interest. I've slowly convinced myself that buying DSLR cameras and lenses was justified by by level of use.
When you've got a finite amount of money and several hobbies like these, you need some sense of balance. I try.
Bill
Alright alright alright!
- Check a Sony SCD-XA5400ES CD/SACD player (with XLR Balanced connections and HDMI as well).
- Check an Oppo BDP-95 Universal Blu-ray player (as above plus much more...).
{These two above are about $999 each.}
- And for more $$$, check an Ayre CX7E.
*** There is value somewhere above, and it has also good Music reproduction.
...And don't forget to check the second market, like Audiogon and similar...
Now let's talk about Value in Today's High-End.
_______________________________
^ This was only about a digital source.
About a True Passive Stereo Pre-Amp? ---> About a Nelson Pass ground up design, like an Adcom GFP-750, with the "blue board" version ($700/800 at Audiogon)?
- Check a Sony SCD-XA5400ES CD/SACD player (with XLR Balanced connections and HDMI as well).
- Check an Oppo BDP-95 Universal Blu-ray player (as above plus much more...).
{These two above are about $999 each.}
- And for more $$$, check an Ayre CX7E.
*** There is value somewhere above, and it has also good Music reproduction.
...And don't forget to check the second market, like Audiogon and similar...
Now let's talk about Value in Today's High-End.
_______________________________
^ This was only about a digital source.
About a True Passive Stereo Pre-Amp? ---> About a Nelson Pass ground up design, like an Adcom GFP-750, with the "blue board" version ($700/800 at Audiogon)?
These are real 'valuable' words Bill!
* And if you do end up with spare money, even at 70/75, just give it to your children.
And have the time to see them enjoying the good times!
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