A newbie friend has come to me for advice. Oy! What do I tell him?

[caesar]

My friend heard some Martin Logans at a local store recently and really likes them. The speakers are $5K or $6K and were driven by a Denon receiver, which seemed not only "non-audiophile" to get the most of out of them, but also underpowered to drive the Logans to their potential.


Being on the border-line of the lunatic fringe in this hobby, I am not sure what kind of advice I should give him other than hearing the Logans with a "good" amp and listening to other speakers at that price point such as Maggie, Focal, B&W, etc. I want to make sure he finds his passion, but I am looking for advice on steering him the right way for him to do just that. Any thoughts? Thanks

 

[flez007]

If he liked the speakers I would let him there but recommending another amp, maybe a NAD or Rotel will better serve his needs.

 

[Lee]

This is what I would suggest...Maggie 1.7s plus Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum. Speaker+Amp = $4K

Logic:
**If he likes the ML then he probably like the Maggies and he gets a better amp than a Denon receiver.
**In my experience, the amp+speaker combination is critical for overall sound and satisfaction.

 

[mep]

Here's my advice: If your friend liked the sound of the ML speakers with the Denon receiver, tell your friend to buy the ML speakers and the Denon receiver. In other words, keep out of it and let him buy what he wants without you trying to impose your will/tastes on him. If you switch your friend off of a combo he likes to a combo you like, he might not like it when he gets home. Guess whose fault that will be?

And Lee, since the guy likes ML speakers, why are you trying to have him switch to Maggies? Because you like them? I don't agree with your amp recommendation either for the Maggies. Maggies suck up power. You need a high-current amp to bring out the best in them. The Rogue amp claims 90 watts using a pair of tubes per channel, but since it has a tube output stage, it will not be able to supply the current the Maggies crave. And besides that, how do you know this guy even wants to mess with tubes? When it comes to tube amps, I don't even want to mess with them anymore. There are horses for courses, and I don't think Maggies and tubes should ride together if you want to bring out the best of the Maggies.

 

[RBFC]

I'd agree with Mark's position that you should let him buy the MLs and the Denon. Then, through "borrowed" audition pieces, etc., he can discover the upgrade path for himself. Let him get established and begin his enjoyment of quality reproduction. Then, he'll look for improvements on his own timeline.

Lee

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I agree also. Let him buy what he wants. However, let me ask some questions.

1. Is this setup for 2-channel or an HT setup?
2. Is the Denon an AVR or Stereo Receiver?
3. Does he want/need a tuner?

If we knew the application it would be easier to offer suggestions.

 

[Gregadd]

Saying I differ with Ethan is quite an understatemnt. If a reciever floats your boat than good for you. I'm a big Logan fan. Go for it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

he came to you for advice, which likely means he is looking for your approval. he wants you to think highly of his choice so he can feel good about it.

i'd ask some questions, beginning with the one's John mentions. then i'd also ask where he is going, and whether he wants this to be the end or beginning. does he want a system like yours or one that potentially could be like yours? depending on his response, you can explain either that for his stated goals he is doing the right thing.....or that he should do some additional investigation first to see whether there are other choices he might prefer before purchase.

to the newbie, Martin Logans or any stat or planar will mezmorize with the whole 'holographic' thing. will that feeling hold over time or will it be a novelty? help your friend to understand the pluses and minuses to his choice.

good luck.

added note; 12 years ago my brother-in-law asked about the same question you are posing. he was about to buy a Martin Logan/Reciever surround sound system for his rec-room HT system. i asked him at the time whether he could see himself spending much time in 2-channel (i already knew he would say no). once he confirmed my expectation, i told him that the Martin Logans would make a fun HT audio experience and that i liked them. he purchased them and there has been peace in the family since. my brother-in-law was familiar with my 2-channel system at that time (Levinson-Wilson) and i knew he did not share my passion for dedicated listening to 2-channel.

 

[garylkoh]

Caesar, you're his audiophile friend, so in his eyes, you are the expert. If he really likes what he heard, he is looking for your endorsement and unless the ML/Denon will absolutely not work in his room, you should encourage him to buy what he likes..... then after he's had it for a few months (of course with your suggestion of new music to listen to) you might want to loan him one of the "better" amps you have in your spares closet. That will get him down the slippery slope towards the lunatic fringe

 

[JackD201]

I'd tell him to go with the ML/Denon as well with just one addition. So he can be a bit more flexible moving forward, suggest he get a Denon receiver with L and R line outs.

Many moons ago, I ran an Onkyo with my 600 series B&Ws. Some time later, I added modest XA-200 musical fidelity mono blocks and I was very happy. It was a cost effective and painless upgrade path. Later the Revels, AVP Pre/Pro and ML amps followed. When I finally had a listening room to myself, I went pure two channel and left that combo with the family and started fresh.

 

[garylkoh]

I'd tell him to go with the ML/Denon as well with just one addition. So he can be a bit more flexible moving forward, suggest he get a Denon receiver with L and R line outs.

+1

 

[RBFC]

I also started with a Denon receiver with preamp-out jacks. I added the Krell amp, then replaced the Denon with the preamp/processor. This approach splits the expenditure for separates.

Lee

 

[DaveyF]

Like Mike L said, maybe ask him what is his intended use of the system....HT or just 2 channel? I would also suggest that you ask him some simple questions like....what did you like about the system you heard, what did you NOT like? Where is the system going to be housed? What is your budget for the system? Who's going to be using the system and so forth. Then perhaps suggest that if possible, your friend might want to try listening to this speaker and other possible amps/receivers to get a better idea as to how they perform together. If he still likes the Denon/ML combo best after those sessions, then as above posters have said, try and make sure that the receiver has L and R line outs.

 

[LL21]

+1

Totally agree. i would encourage him to choose the sound he likes...particularly the speakers he likes. My first system 20 yrs ago first outta school was based on loving the speakers (Celestion sl6si's)...and just needing some juice to run them (also Denon integrated with pre-out). Before i got my Denon, i actually ran the speakers with my boom box by connecting the speaker outputs!!! If he is going to end up an audiophile, he will come back to you when he wants to upgrade (which he inevitably will). good luck.

 

[caesar]

Gentlemen, thanks for the advice. He wants the system for 2 channel. My goal is to stay out of it so it's his choice, yet to gently nudge him to experience those same speakers with a "real amp" and also just to listen to something else at the same price point to make sure he still what he heard.

 

[Lee]

I'm disappointed so many are recommending the Denon. So much better stuff out there for the same money...

 

[RBFC]

I'm disappointed so many are recommending the Denon. So much better stuff out there for the same money...

I think we are recommending that his friend get his feet in the "audio" door by buying the system that has given him pleasure. We've also stated that the inevitable upgrade path will become apparent.

Long ago, I sold audio for a summer job. One of the fastest ways to lose a customer was to confuse them with too many options. As one's experience and knowledge grow, it becomes easier to sort through the different products and features available.

Lee

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'm disappointed so many are recommending the Denon. So much better stuff out there for the same money...

And the next guy will tell you there is so much better out there than Brand X.

 

[JackD201]

I'm disappointed so many are recommending the Denon. So much better stuff out there for the same money...

Interesting Lee. Care to elaborate on what's much better other than other receivers?

 

[mep]

Lee-I think the point is that no one is "recommending" the Denon. That is what the guy heard when he decided he liked that combo. I have given up on talking people out of things they like and can afford in order to buy what I want them to own.