$650K Turntable?

[Phelonious Ponk]

This $650K table is not a real product, it is one man's dream and it is a prototype. There is no business and there is none for sale and there may never be one for sale. So what are we discussing now? Do we want to discuss whether any turntable is worth $650K or do we want to talk about how long it will be before we see $650K turntables on the market? I just don't see where there is much to discuss with the OP.

Are you even sure it is that? I find the feasibility of investing enough R&D, design, technology and fabrication into a product that mature to come up with that kind of price, even a speculative price, a bit much to wrap my head around, frankly. Here's $500K:

Keep the change. Send someone to a really good state university with it.

Tim

 

[mep]

Tim-I get your point and I agree. What the designer has now looks crude to me and far from being a finished product that could ever sell for serious money-let alone $650K. Turntables have broken the $100K barrier and it is only a matter of time until there is a $200K table. This one isn't it.

 

[Steve Williams]

I seem to recall somewhere way earlier in this thread that the turntable's developer became a member and posted his viewpoint and stated that this will be a "one off" and he will probably keep it

 

[mep]

Steve-He also said that he might put it into "production" at the rate of one per year.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I seem to recall somewhere way earlier in this thread that the turntable's developer became a member and posted his viewpoint and stated that this will be a "one off" and he will probably keep it

Yeah, I read that.

Tim

 

[Steve Williams]

So let's listen to what further posts he makes here that might be helpful

If it is one per year good chance he will sell one per year

 

[Steve Williams]

Are you even sure it is that? I find the feasibility of investing enough R&D, design, technology and fabrication into a product that mature to come up with that kind of price, even a speculative price, a bit much to wrap my head around, frankly. Here's $500K:

Keep the change. Send someone to a really good state university with it.

Tim

Here's $182K and with options $220K

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Happy Easter to you all ! Regardless of faith ! I appreciate the level of civility in that forum and I will try to extend it to derainier in welcoming him to the forum as well. It remains however that the price of his turntable stretch the limits ... I read the cost he quoted and find it very high then again I don't have access to his records (pun intended) and can only opine not state thats it is uncommonly high. He'll likely sell one of these once in a while, it remains to prove that his TT surpasses anything in existence as it should at this price... In passing I still would like to know how much a cutting lathe cost since this is what ultimately define the baseline i-e you can't do better than what is on the record ... all the rest, if rest there are is well .. wasted ..
By the way Steve, I like the gullwings MB very, very nice and would if I could in a hearbeat

 

[mep]

Frantz-I'm real sure that cutting lathes don't cost anywhere near $650K. I remember back in the days when Goldmund broke the $30K barrier and everyone thought that was so over the top. Now you have tables over $100K. And one of those tables has a tonearm that looks like it came off a 1950s Seeburg jukebox. I like the point you are driving at though. And I think that point is why do you hold the playback turntable up to a higher standard than the cutting lathe that makes the records you listen to?

Mark

 

[JackD201]

Last I checked you can't listen through a cutter head. That's where the argument gets wobbly as far as I'm concerned.

 

[KlausR.]

Hi Rainer,

some questions:

So we are now able to move the tangential unit very smooth, with the smallest movement of 0,000024 mm !!!

Why go that difficult path when one needs an absolute tracking error of about 12 degrees before perceiving tracking distortion?

This help us to get a speed tolerance of only 0,01 %.

Did you try and find out where perception thresholds are? I mean, if 0.1% for instance already is inaudible, why try and improve?

Klaus

 

[JackD201]

Because you can? If this is a design exercise, personally I see no reason why going past any threshold should be questioned. It runs contrary to the spirit of such exercises.

No I am not interested in a $650,000 turntable but if Derainer comes up with something of worth that can trickle down, I say, keep going Derainer!

 

[FrantzM]

Last I checked you can't listen through a cutter head. That's where the argument gets wobbly as far as I'm concerned.

Jack

The point I am trying to make is that a TT has to extract information from a record. A record is cut by a lathe and the lathe limits the amount of information in the record/LP ... When the turntable cost more than the lathe then there is a disconnect... One can always argue that the TT has to be as neutral as possible ..It remains that the price is more than extreme IMO ..
We can continue to debate on the merits of the TT and I am sure the numbers can be great .. I am not too sure they will surpass what can be obtained with a direct drive ....The rest wil be lost in the fog of "subjectivity" .. I try as much as possible not to offend but $650K for a TT is pushing the audiophile tolerance too far .. There is such a thing as too much a euphemism for exaggeration...

Listening right now to the wonderful rendition of Mahler #2 by Zubin Mehta on Decca Legend ... A superb , masterful reading . On Amazon .. and on CD

 

[mep]

Last I checked you can't listen through a cutter head. That's where the argument gets wobbly as far as I'm concerned.

I think you are missing the point Jack. Never mind the cutter head, you still have a platter being driven by a motor. Are we surpassing the quality of the drive system of the cutting lathe? If so, why? Is it pointless? Also, cutting lathes are usually afixed with a tonearm so they can play back test lacquers.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I get this argument about the cutting lathe, but it is pretty senseless in a context where many seem to believe that their playback systems manage to create a greater sense of musical realism than was captured in the recording.

Tim

 

[mep]

I get this argument about the cutting lathe, but it is pretty senseless in a context where many seem to believe that their playback systems manage to create a greater sense of musical realism than was captured in the recording.

Tim

Tim-You just can't resist the constant jabs can you?

Mark

 

[microstrip]

I get this argument about the cutting lathe, but it is pretty senseless in a context where many seem to believe that their playback systems manage to create a greater sense of musical realism than was captured in the recording.

Tim

Tim,
Sorry, I think most of us believe that their playback systems manage to create a great sense of musical realism that was captured or created in the recording, and an appropriate system should be used.
Not exactly what you are saying.

 

[mep]

Not even close to what Tim is saying. I don't remember anyone stating that their system sounds better than the master tape or master digital file that made the recording they are listening to on their system. That would be impossible. All you can do is try to have your system reproduce your copy of the source material as close as possible to how the master actually sounds. Tim just loves to pontificate and poke people in the eye every chance he gets. Sometimes it is deserved, but this one was a sucker punch.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim-You just can't resist the constant jabs can you?

Mark

It's not a jab, Mark, it's a reality. There are quite a few in this hobby who believe they can, in playback, exceed what exists in the recording. Maybe they're right and I'm wrong, but either way, arguing that it is pointless for the turntable to exceed the precision of the cutting runs counter to that belief, and I believe that's all I said.

Tim

 

[Steve Williams]

I knew what Tim meant and I do agree with his postulate