12AX7/ECC83

[Sampajanna]

Any advice on these for my amps? They are tube in/SS out mono amps. They came with AVM branded JJ-produced tubes. Not looking to warm things up. Just want to see what rolling does.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Any advice on these for my amps? They are tube in/SS out mono amps. They came with AVM branded JJ-produced tubes. Not looking to warm things up. Just want to see what rolling does.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Well, tube rolling opens up lots of potential for the equipment.
12AX7, or ECC83 across the pond, is a very popular tube. You can start with the Sovtek 12AX7 LPS. It's a new production tube that you can buy cheaply and play around. It's excellent, so the difference will be noticeable.

If you find tube rolling to be worth it, you can try NOS (New Old Stock) tubes. I recommend sticking with reputable vendors. They might be more expensive, but you get a warranty and good tube matching.
The good point of starting with NOS tubes are Philips's tubes. They are neutral sounding, and they offer long life.

 

[Sablon Audio]

This thread is pretty useful for 12ax7 options

Joe's Tube Lore

Audio Asylum - Joe's Tube Lore

www.audioasylum.com

 

[Sampajanna]

Thanks!

 

[Mendel]

This thread is pretty useful for 12ax7 options

Joe's Tube Lore

Audio Asylum - Joe's Tube Lore

www.audioasylum.com

A lot of what’s in Joe’s tube lore is right on in my opinion, but not everything. I share his distaste for Telefunken and Mullard (though he never tried the much superior early Mullard long plates) and his enthusiasm for early 5751s. However I think he missed some of the best 12ax7s out there. Give me an RCA or Raytheon 1950s black plate 12ax7 over a Tele any day. I think they are just as good as most of the Amperex‘s, warm like a Mullard but with detail. I also like the Siemen’s tubes (especially the early long plates) over the Teles if your looking for a fast, detailed tube.
Have never warmed to any of the new production tubes including the Soviet LPS. My Coincident Phono stage came with the new production “Mullard” (sick) and I couldn’t wait to get them out of there. I am running Siemens in the first gain stage and early Amperex large getter long plates in the second stage. I loved Sylvania 5751 black plates in the first stage, but felt I gave up too much gain for low output cartridges.
Sorry to go on so long, love talking tubes and good luck to the OP in your tube rolling adventures.

 

[Sampajanna]

Thanks so much! I am just using my dealer’s word that the tubes in my amps are JJ. They are branded AVM/produced for teh amp. these amps are giant slayers and not talked about enough. I am ready to roll. I think I may stay with the higher gain 12AX7 to start before switching to others like 5751. Siemens and Amoerex seem right on. I want fast and detailed, not warm and fuzzy. I appreciate all the help greatly!

 

[thomask]

The best starting point is Telefuken ECC83.

It sounds detailed and cleared but musical although they are getting expensive.

 

[Cellcbern]

1950's Mullard and Amperex long plate 12AX7's are resolving, liquid, dynamic, and natural sounding in my Pathos TT Inpol Hybrid and Unison S6 tube amps. However prices for even good used pairs are in the $400-$500 range and you rarely see NOS. I found the 1950's and early 1960's Sylvania long black plate 12AX7's to be their equal sonically at least in my amps at half the price of the vintage Amperex and Mullard. However these too have become scarce. Not a fan of Siemans or Telefunken 12AX7's which have a cooler sonic signature to my ears. Pathos and Unison recommend against substituting 5751's so I haven't tried them. All of the Russian made 12AX7's are mediocre by comparison. The only short plate 12AX7 I've liked in my amps has been the Mullard CV4004 Box Plate which comes close to the Mullard long plate.

Tube Depot appears to have stocks of the Sylvania long black plates. They also appear to have the vintage RCA and Tung Sol long black plates which have been good in my amps but not on a par with the Sylvania. Brent Jessie also seems to still have a good selection. I have purchased from both over the years without and problems. I used to buy from Tube World (now Tube World Express) which doesn't have the selection currently that they once had. I have found a few good pairs on ebay but you have to screen sellers carefully.

 

[Tango]

I use the Mullard 10M Gold pin in one of my phono input. The size n scale of presentation, the mid, the bass, is less accurate than the Telefunken. The high on Tele is dryer than the Mullard. The Tele is just less forgiving. But with a very good pressing I find it ahead of the pack not just different. The Mullard is worthwhile to have for a different flavor in a system

 

[Sablon Audio]

Thanks so much! I am just using my dealer’s word that the tubes in my amps are JJ. They are branded AVM/produced for teh amp. these amps are giant slayers and not talked about enough. I am ready to roll. I think I may stay with the higher gain 12AX7 to start before switching to others like 5751. Siemens and Amoerex seem right on. I want fast and detailed, not warm and fuzzy. I appreciate all the help greatly!

I was in a similar position to you when my Riviera hybrid amp was delivered with JJ input tubes (12at7 type) and felt very underwhelmed with the sound. Swapping them over to a set of nos Philips gave a huge jump in sound quality. You’re certainly on the right tracks with dutch / german production though Tungsram also make some great sounding options and are typically cheaper than the better known brands. If you want to drop me a line, I can refer you to a very knowledgeable and reliable supplier who can guide you through the minefield.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

@Sampajanna, there are a lot of options with NOS tubes. Before you go there, I recommend you to try a few new production models. 2-3 pairs to get a taste of what direction in the sound is right for you. It's cheaper than buying 2-3 pairs of expensive NOS

 

[Mendel]

I never loved the Telefunkens as 12ax7 input tubes for my Rogue amp. So I’ve kind of bad mouthed them for years. But in the first gain stage for my Coincident Statement Phono Stage they are amazing! I now understand why they are so famous and beloved. They are very neutral, add no warmth or flavour, very linear sounding.
Perfect tubes for the first (highest) gain stage in an analog system. I use JJ E83CC in the second gain stage of the phono stage (also a very neutral tube) and Amperex I65 in the amps input stage for a little warmth and colour. Still tube roll, but not as often as before….

 

[Oracle1974]

Try Mazda Silver Plate.
They are fast and I prefer them over Telefunken.

 

[Mendel]

Try Mazda Silver Plate.
They are fast and I prefer them over Telefunken

Unfortunately never came across a pair in my tube collecting days. I have heard they are a great tube.