Zero Distortion: Phono Shootout – Thrax vs FM 123 vs Audio Tekne vs

bonzo75

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I had covered before a system of TAD floorstanders, VTL 750 (vs MSB 204), VTL 7.5 mk3, and Thrax phono with Dohmann TT, Schroeder CB + MSL Eminent Ultra, and Kuzma 4p + GFS here

I revisited him to do a phono shootout. Since my last visit, gone are the MSB amps, the VTL pre has been replaced by the AR Ref 10 driving the VTL amps, and the Schroeder + MSL Eminent Ultra (0.3v) is the only combo that resides on the Dohmann

We made a plan to compare the Thrax phono with:

  • FM Acoustics 123 – using as preamp AR Ref 10 as well as the FM 245 preamp
  • Audo Tekne lower model, costing around 20k euro
  • A lesser known SS LCR phono costing approx. 4k, designed by an Italian named Fabrizio

Additionally we were also able to compare

  • AR Ref 6 vs FM 245 preamps
  • The Dohmann and Vertere set ups.



http://zero-distortion.org/phono-shootout-thrax-vs-fm-123-vs-audio-tekne-vs/
 

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Last edited:

morricab

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I had covered before a system of TAD floorstanders, VTL 750 (vs MSB 204), VTL 7.5 mk3, and Thrax phono with Dohmann TT, Schroeder CB + MSL Eminent Ultra, and Kuzma 4p + GFS here

I revisited him to do a phono shootout. Since my last visit, gone are the MSB amps, the VTL pre has been replaced by the AR Ref 10 driving the VTL amps, and the Schroeder + MSL Eminent Ultra (0.3v) is the only combo that resides on the Dohmann

We made a plan to compare the Thrax phono with:

  • FM Acoustics 123 – using as preamp AR Ref 10 as well as the FM 245 preamp
  • Audo Tekne lower model, costing around 20k euro
  • A lesser known SS LCR phono costing approx. 4k, designed by an Italian named Fabrizio

Additionally we were also able to compare

  • AR Ref 10 vs FM 245 preamps
  • The Dohmann and Vertere set ups.



http://zero-distortion.org/phono-shootout-thrax-vs-fm-123-vs-audio-tekne-vs/


You didn't really say much about the FM123 + FM245 combo...too much SS sound?
 

bonzo75

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You didn't really say much about the FM123 + FM245 combo...too much SS sound?

No it's not SS sound. It is Vitus like, but you will say Vitus is SS like. It is just that the Thrax did things better in that system in terms of openness, flow, stage, harmonics, and when coupled with that FM pre was even better. I think a higher output cart is required for the FM phono
 

microstrip

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The photo shows an Audio Research REF6 , not a REF10 ...
 

bonzo75

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microstrip

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Ouch it is ref 6. I should type better. Too much writing

It is really a night and day difference between these preamplfiers ... Do you know why the owner changed the VTL preamp to the ARC REF6? :confused: Even my old REF40 sounds much better than the REF6.
 

Tbzc

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It is really a night and day difference between these preamplfiers ... Do you know why the owner changed the VTL preamp to the ARC REF6? :confused: Even my old REF40 sounds much better than the REF6.
It is the best that the owner himself answer the question re ARC Ref 6 ?

Why did I change VTL pre? Because I think ARC Ref 6 is better in terms of noise, drive (that was a shock for me) and transparency.

Regarding VTL pre, I still think it has its own merits like relaxed, less forward sound (like back rows in concert halls, not in terms of brightness).

I cannot comment on Ref 40 because I only heard it in my friend’s system many times, not in my system. But I did hear Ref 10 line preamp in my system and I would say it is not better in all areas. With Ref 10 stage is even wider and deeper but you lose some drive (bass, organic) and bloom (musicality maybe). So it is not that one is better than the other but it is more like you gain something you lose something… My closest friend came to the exact same conclusion after testing Ref 6 and Ref 10 in his system. He also bought Ref 6. And from what I hear, also some people in some parts of Mcintosh Group think the same, that is why they use Ref 6 as a reference for certain product development (not ARC), and that is why they will introduce soon the Ref 10 successor soon. Also, rationally speaking the difference between Ref6 and Ref10 is too small to pay 100% premium for an outdated model. But, like I said, I have not heard Ref 40 in my system and maybe it is the best off all ARC preamps…

All in all, I do think that the last generation of ARC line preamps is really good. I cannot claim the same for their phono preamps, had Ref 10 phono in my system for a week and did not like it. Maybe my carts are not a good match (MSL Ultra Eminent and Mijayima Kansui).
 

microstrip

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It is the best that the owner himself answer the question re ARC Ref 6 ?

Why did I change VTL pre? Because I think ARC Ref 6 is better in terms of noise, drive (that was a shock for me) and transparency.

Regarding VTL pre, I still think it has its own merits like relaxed, less forward sound (like back rows in concert halls, not in terms of brightness).

I cannot comment on Ref 40 because I only heard it in my friend’s system many times, not in my system. But I did hear Ref 10 line preamp in my system and I would say it is not better in all areas. With Ref 10 stage is even wider and deeper but you lose some drive (bass, organic) and bloom (musicality maybe). So it is not that one is better than the other but it is more like you gain something you lose something… My closest friend came to the exact same conclusion after testing Ref 6 and Ref 10 in his system. He also bought Ref 6. And from what I hear, also some people in some parts of Mcintosh Group think the same, that is why they use Ref 6 as a reference for certain product development (not ARC), and that is why they will introduce soon the Ref 10 successor soon. Also, rationally speaking the difference between Ref6 and Ref10 is too small to pay 100% premium for an outdated model. But, like I said, I have not heard Ref 40 in my system and maybe it is the best off all ARC preamps…

All in all, I do think that the last generation of ARC line preamps is really good. I cannot claim the same for their phono preamps, had Ref 10 phono in my system for a week and did not like it. Maybe my carts are not a good match (MSL Ultra Eminent and Mijayima Kansui).

Thanks, my experience is mainly with the REF40, that I still keep - and yes it has more bloom than the 10 or the 6.

A little secret - I got the first REF40 that arrived at our distributor even without listening or reading reviews - a rare case of audiophile faith. Much later I sold it, but I found I needed to get one again :) - I was fortunate to get an used one in almost unused condition.
 

audioquattr

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It is the best that the owner himself answer the question re ARC Ref 6 ?

Why did I change VTL pre? Because I think ARC Ref 6 is better in terms of noise, drive (that was a shock for me) and transparency.

Regarding VTL pre, I still think it has its own merits like relaxed, less forward sound (like back rows in concert halls, not in terms of brightness).

I cannot comment on Ref 40 because I only heard it in my friend’s system many times, not in my system. But I did hear Ref 10 line preamp in my system and I would say it is not better in all areas. With Ref 10 stage is even wider and deeper but you lose some drive (bass, organic) and bloom (musicality maybe). So it is not that one is better than the other but it is more like you gain something you lose something… My closest friend came to the exact same conclusion after testing Ref 6 and Ref 10 in his system. He also bought Ref 6. And from what I hear, also some people in some parts of Mcintosh Group think the same, that is why they use Ref 6 as a reference for certain product development (not ARC), and that is why they will introduce soon the Ref 10 successor soon. Also, rationally speaking the difference between Ref6 and Ref10 is too small to pay 100% premium for an outdated model. But, like I said, I have not heard Ref 40 in my system and maybe it is the best off all ARC preamps…

All in all, I do think that the last generation of ARC line preamps is really good. I cannot claim the same for their phono preamps, had Ref 10 phono in my system for a week and did not like it. Maybe my carts are not a good match (MSL Ultra Eminent and Mijayima Kansui).

Thanks for the explanations. Very nice system! I love the big Tad's.

, and that is why they will introduce soon the Ref 10 successor soon.

Do you know how soon? Few weeks or few months?
Thanks.
 

analyzer

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Nice report, me too I love the big TAD's and I was curious to read about the listening session.
in my experience FM acoustics electronics seems performs better in full FM's systems, neverthless they are great piece of audio gear.
About the fourth contender I recognize a prototype of a new Italian phonostage loved by Fabrizio Baretta, the founder of "fabercables". I had in the past a full chain of its cables and power distributor, nice products and Fabrizio is well recognized as a "good ear" here in Italy.
Well done Kedar!
my best
Marco
 

bonzo75

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Nice report, me too I love the big TAD's and I was curious to read about the listening session.
in my experience FM acoustics electronics seems performs better in full FM's systems, neverthless they are great piece of audio gear.
About the fourth contender I recognize a prototype of a new Italian phonostage loved by Fabrizio Baretta, the founder of "fabercables". I had in the past a full chain of its cables and power distributor, nice products and Fabrizio is well recognized as a "good ear" here in Italy.
Well done Kedar!
my best
Marco

Thanks. His phono is really good, and comes with EQ curves for Decca, Columbia, etc. If someone wants a SS phono along side a valve phono, without breaking their bank, this is extremely good.
 

bonzo75

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Nice report, me too I love the big TAD's and I was curious to read about the listening session.
in my experience FM acoustics electronics seems performs better in full FM's systems, neverthless they are great piece of audio gear.
About the fourth contender I recognize a prototype of a new Italian phonostage loved by Fabrizio Baretta, the founder of "fabercables". I had in the past a full chain of its cables and power distributor, nice products and Fabrizio is well recognized as a "good ear" here in Italy.
Well done Kedar!
my best
Marco

As for FM sounding good in a complete system, the audio arts FM system is possibly the best cone system I have heard after Mike's, and one of the top systems generally. His components are the top phono and pre models - 223 phono

I have heard a complete FM system, similar models but phono 123, same that LL21 heard, with PMC speakers. I wasn't impressed but thought that was due to PMC. Now I heard this isolating the phono and the pre, but no FM power. I think the sonics I heard in the latter two cases were far removed from the audio arts set up. My guess is this has to do with either not having PIT cabling, or having very low output carts, or both. It's tough to say what, but audio arts analog set up as well as general flow and tone of his system was superb. He also seems to be very good at managing gain.
 

jsn

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Thanks. His phono is really good, and comes with EQ curves for Decca, Columbia, etc. If someone wants a SS phono along side a valve phono, without breaking their bank, this is extremely good.

Hi Bonzo,
Is there any website/link for Fabrizio Baretta's phono ? Who can I contact to get more information ?
Thank you.
Regards, jsn
 

bonzo75

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I have linked in my site...
https://www.fabercables.com/

Also, at that budget for great sounding SS phonos... Also try Anamighty sound. I have not tried both in the same system, but I tried Fabrizio against Thrax and FM, and I know that Anamighty sound are dealers for Thrax phono, though I heard their phono independently. Need to compare it once.
 
Last edited:

analyzer

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No jsn, the link posted by bonzo75 is wrong.
the correct one is:

https://www.fabercables.com/

and for power distributor and grounding box:

https://www.faberpower.com/

About the phonostage I spoken yesterday at the phone with Fabrizio Baretta and he confirmed me that the phonostage is designed by a friend of him; I don't know any detail for the features; I just only heard that is available the chance to select two RIAA or Decca eq curves and tto choose the phase signal (inverting or not).
my best
Marco
 

bonzo75

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ooops... Corrected. Thanks
 

Tbzc

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After enjoying the weekend shootout of the phone preamps, I could not stop thinking about improvement FMA line preamp brought to my system. I realized that, relatively speaking, the weakest link of my system is actually the line preamp. A lot of very seasoned audiophiles gave me the feedback that my system is on a very high level, but for me it simply did not have enough of musical enjoyment, I call it MAGIC. I had that magic in my old apartment (with Ayon Spheris iii/ Vulcan Evo/Kaiser Kawero classic) but after moving to a house and a dedicated music room my old system simply did not work as before. Then the vicious circle of changing the gear and search for a holy grail started again. First with speakers. Then the amp... Then I settled with a system described in Ked’s blog (Tad Ref1, Vtl Siegfried ii, Arc Ref6, thrax phono, dohmann turntable...).

I’ve been looking at DHT preamps for few months. Tried to find as much info about Allnic L 5000/8000, new Vinnie Rossie, Aton Conquistador etc. Shootout of phono preamps encouraged me to continue the quest for THE right preamp. A week ago I finally made a move and tried Ayon Conquistador, which is a DHT preamp based on AA45 tubes and has separate PS with tube rectifiers. Imagine the shock, after just few minutes after inserting it I said - the MAGIC is back. After that it is just getting better and better. It brought so much musical enjoyment that I have been listening to music for many hours each day.

Let me share with you few examples what I mean by saying “magic is back”. I have an LP by Cinematic Orchestra LIve at Albert Hall which I have listened to many many times. When I had a system in my previous room I felt a real magic on the second track. Like each instrument is floating in the air. Like music would embrace you. When we moved to our house I lost that magic and stopped listening this LP. *On the second day, in the morning, I put on this Lp and that feeling, emotion was back. Also, Norah Jones Live in Texas. That life feeling of being the part of the audience. That she is singing just in front of you. On the Avishai Cohen’s Seven seas I can again hear and feel that bass. And vocals (like Leonard Cohen) have again that wonderful physicality, volume.

I have needed almost two years to bring the magic of music back into my life! I have not experienced that kind of musical enjoyment since we have been in the new house and since I have a devoted music room. It is not about treble, mid, bass anymore. It is about music, joy of it, involvement, emotion. At least for me and my ears. I have not been listening to music so much in my life! And never had I listened to such a variety of music. Everything simply sounds so real, emotional, natural. Magic.
 

Tango

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After enjoying the weekend shootout of the phone preamps, I could not stop thinking about improvement FMA line preamp brought to my system. I realized that, relatively speaking, the weakest link of my system is actually the line preamp. A lot of very seasoned audiophiles gave me the feedback that my system is on a very high level, but for me it simply did not have enough of musical enjoyment, I call it MAGIC. I had that magic in my old apartment (with Ayon Spheris iii/ Vulcan Evo/Kaiser Kawero classic) but after moving to a house and a dedicated music room my old system simply did not work as before. Then the vicious circle of changing the gear and search for a holy grail started again. First with speakers. Then the amp... Then I settled with a system described in Ked’s blog (Tad Ref1, Vtl Siegfried ii, Arc Ref6, thrax phono, dohmann turntable...).

I’ve been looking at DHT preamps for few months. Tried to find as much info about Allnic L 5000/8000, new Vinnie Rossie, Aton Conquistador etc. Shootout of phono preamps encouraged me to continue the quest for THE right preamp. A week ago I finally made a move and tried Ayon Conquistador, which is a DHT preamp based on AA45 tubes and has separate PS with tube rectifiers. Imagine the shock, after just few minutes after inserting it I said - the MAGIC is back. After that it is just getting better and better. It brought so much musical enjoyment that I have been listening to music for many hours each day.

Let me share with you few examples what I mean by saying “magic is back”. I have an LP by Cinematic Orchestra LIve at Albert Hall which I have listened to many many times. When I had a system in my previous room I felt a real magic on the second track. Like each instrument is floating in the air. Like music would embrace you. When we moved to our house I lost that magic and stopped listening this LP. *On the second day, in the morning, I put on this Lp and that feeling, emotion was back. Also, Norah Jones Live in Texas. That life feeling of being the part of the audience. That she is singing just in front of you. On the Avishai Cohen’s Seven seas I can again hear and feel that bass. And vocals (like Leonard Cohen) have again that wonderful physicality, volume.

I have needed almost two years to bring the magic of music back into my life! I have not experienced that kind of musical enjoyment since we have been in the new house and since I have a devoted music room. It is not about treble, mid, bass anymore. It is about music, joy of it, involvement, emotion. At least for me and my ears. I have not been listening to music so much in my life! And never had I listened to such a variety of music. Everything simply sounds so real, emotional, natural. Magic.

Dear Sir,

You are the only person I heard of using the same preamp as me. The clarity and “magic” are there with the Conquistador. You are in Italy. You should try Kuro interconnect. Just put one between your phono and pre and you will experience a greater depth of the magic you have.

Kindest regards,
Tang
 

Tbzc

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Dear Tang,

I would actually like to thank you - you have also encouraged to go for Conquistador :) We are, at least, lucky two :) Thanks for recommending Kuro. I might try it.
 

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