New trends, Artisans in the Hi-End, Kuro SilverGold cables

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

bazelio said:
At over 3x the price, I do hope the Italian cable is "better" than the Zenwave by a very large margin.

Sorry, but as you know, the price is not an absolute yardstick and above all, twice the price does not automatically correspond to a doubling of the sound quality.
I upgraded from MIT Oracle 50 to MIT MA-x2 (which costs 3 times more) but the SQ not increased 3 times.
However, Kuro SilverGold it costs much, much less than MIT Oracle MA-X2 and sounds far better (IMHO in my system).

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

bazelio said:
But this is a coloration, and again, it's great if that's what you're looking for in a cable.

I do not agree. these cables are not "colored" at all.
MIT, as general assumption, are colored. MIT Oracle MA-X2 are less colorful in the average MIT, but despite everything, in comparison with the Kuro, they seemed to insert a light veil.
In order to have an idea of the cables you used into your system, please may you list?

bazelio · Apr 23, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
Sorry, but as you know, the price is not an absolute yardstick and above all, twice the price does not automatically correspond to a doubling of the sound quality.
I upgraded from MIT Oracle 50 to MIT MA-x2 (which costs 3 times more) but the SQ not increased 3 times.
However, Kuro SilverGold it costs much, much less than MIT Oracle MA-X2 and sounds far better (IMHO in my system).

I haven't said a 1:1 price: performance ratio should exist. I've said that for a 3x or 4x price increase, there should be some significant improvements readily apparent. MIT cables are typically not as good at "plankton" or micro-detail resolution in my experience. Many cables surpass them in that area. So I am not surprised there.

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

bazelio said:
MIT cables are typically not as good at "plankton" or micro-detail resolution in my experience..

maybe you've never tried Oracle MA-X2. On the micro-detail another league with respect to the rest of the brand.

bazelio · Apr 23, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
maybe you've never tried Oracle MA-X2. On the micro-detail another league with respect to the rest of the brand.

"with respect to the rest of the brand" is a key phrase.

At the moment I have Jorma interconnects on extended loan. I've also used Wywires Platinum and Diamond series, and most of the Furutech line. EDIT: I suppose I should also add that I've auditioned many other cables over the years (including MIT), and done AB compares in dealer listening rooms, etc. I've just mentioned what I've tried recently.

DaveC · Apr 23, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
Hi Dave,
There is not mistake here; just a misunderstanding.
Gian just told you that Kuro was the first to use Neotech in Italy long time ago, not the Silver Gold obviously. it was just to state that Neotech was a brand well known by Kuro's owner.
Moreover, and more importantly, he does not use the Neotech's SilverGold cables!!! he wrote the specs for a local foundry for cables and goldsmithery which produce his raw cable.
I was told that before he tried the Neotech Silver Gold but didn't found the characteristics he needed for its project.
But the goodness of its cables depends not only on the materials used but also on the methodology to build and the materials for damping and insulation.

Please, what do you mean?
a key feature in Emiliano's products is the obsessive search for quality and the right value.

the answer is yes to everything I've heard until now. For your cable, If you want I am available for comparison

First, I'm sorry to post too much in this thread, I would normally totally avoid it but I felt I needed to correct the information about exactly what kind of wire I use.

I understand Kuro uses a custom wire and it is not made by Neotech.

On the value question, what I mean is it's clear the Kuro cable is as good as it can be regardless of how much it costs and how much labor it takes, it is a cost-no-object cable. I think this is ideal but it is not the goal of ZenWave Audio. ZenWave is an attempt to offer high end cables for reasonable prices. To achieve this I use a simpler design that is less expensive to produce in both materials and labor. Another way of saying it I don't go quite as far down the road of diminishing returns, I aim to have a certain price, etc...

Finally, I offer free demos to anyone, just shoot me an email at dave@zenwaveaudio.com.

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

bazelio said:
"with respect to the rest of the brand" is a key phrase.

Yes, but I've compared them with Nordost Valalla 2, and Oracle was way better on micro-detail too (more natural).
But, you know, cables are also system dependant.
In my system which is extremely revealing, Kuro surpassed by far MIT cables.
Gian has CH precision based system and Tang has Ayon based system, so different systems on which these cables have been successfully installed.

bazelio · Apr 23, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
I do not agree. these cables are not "colored" at all.
MIT, as general assumption, are colored. MIT Oracle MA-X2 are less colorful in the average MIT, but despite everything, in comparison with the Kuro, they seemed to insert a light veil.
In order to have an idea of the cables you used into your system, please may you list?

It's not intuitive that a cable high in gold content such as this would not be colored, and your listening impression pointed towards cable harmonic richness also. So perhaps another misunderstanding and at this point, I think it's safe to say that without hearing them, I can't draw any further conclusions.

Also, to the point of cost - another area where a Zenwave vs Kuro comparison is apples to apples (instead of tangelos) is that neither are dealer-sold products. The markup of dealer-sold products tends to make the cost comparison to an independent "boutique" cable maker invalid. (Such as cost comparison between MIT and Kuro) But in this case both are direct-sold products.

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

First, I'm sorry to post too much in this thread, I would normally totally avoid it but I felt I needed to correct the information about exactly what kind of wire I use.

You have not to apologise, you are welcome on this thread and the opinion of a well respected expert like you is appreciated (at least by me).

I understand Kuro uses a custom wire and it is not made by Neotech.

On the value question, what I mean is it's clear the Kuro cable is as good as it can be regardless of how much it costs and how much labor it takes, it is a cost-no-object cable. I think this is ideal but it is not the goal of ZenWave Audio. ZenWave is an attempt to offer high end cables for reasonable prices. To achieve this I use a simpler design that is less expensive to produce in both materials and labor. Another way of saying it I don't go quite as far down the road of diminishing returns, I aim to have a certain price, etc...

I understood Dave, I've just replied you to better clarify the origin of cables otherwise the thought could arise that the same cable could cost much more for a mere speculation only, and this is not true.
BTW I agree with your business model and I'm sure your cable sounds good. Emiliano's choise as you correctly stated, was to achieve the maximum regardless of how much it costs and how much labor it takes, but I'm pretty sure that its financial gain on each individual cable is much lower than its competitors.

Finally, I offer free demos to anyone, just shoot me an email at dave@zenwaveaudio.com.

Thank you I will contact you soon.

Al M. · Apr 23, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
I'm very happy for you, but I think you are a little out of topics.
I'm sure Dave makes great cables and I respect who search for a best price/quality ratio. But please, let us know which other cables have you compared.

You are the one making all those cable comparisons. I'd be curious to hear what your findings are with ZenWave Audio cables. Apparently you already have plans to audition them, so that's great.

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

Al M. said:
You are the one making all those cable comparisons. .

Not me. Tang and Gian have a long list of uber cables they have tried. I've tried MIT Oracle 50, Oracle MA-x2, Nordost Valalla 2, Nordost Odin, Stealth indra v10.

Tango · Apr 23, 2018

One aspect that Paolo didn’t mention is the “quietnes.” Many uber cables like to offer quietness in way of making you feel like there is a “black” background. Blackness..then make mids “pop” distinctively creating an ooh! ahh! when first heard. Siltech Triple Crown is one cable that is very very very quiet without giving a sense that every recording venue is pitch black. But its sound is open clear with a sense of quietness you get in a normal lighting very quiet room. This is the kind of quietness I think is natural. I used to use both Triple Crown and MIT SHD. I mentioned The Tripple Crown on this quiet background noise issue because the TOL MIT doesn’t do this aspect as well as the Siltech. Yet the Kuro offers the same type of this quietness but even quieter than the Tripple Crown. The First aspect that the Kuro grab my attention is the openness of sound with all the details nicely laid out naturally some what like the character of CH Precidion electronics. Then I started to realize that this thing isxtraordinary quiet. However the quietness or blackness did not jump at me. This is the quietness you get without losing anything in sound but the background noise and the artificial sense of blackness.

I don’t have time to write a comprehensive review about Kuro. I am no reviewer and not the owner of Kuro. So I will write more on some different aspects of Kuro that others might not have written. In the end it is best to do the walk not just talk. Try to get a demo and hear yourself without prejudice.

Kind regards
Tang

caliaripaolo · Apr 23, 2018

Tango said:
One aspect that Paolo didn’t mention is the “quietnes.” Many uber cables like to offer quietness in way of making you feel like there is a “black” background. Blackness..then make mids “pop” distinctively creating an ooh! ahh! when first heard. Siltech Triple Crown is one cable that is very very very quiet without giving a sense that every recording venue is pitch black. But its sound is open clear with a sense of quietness you get in a normal lighting very quiet room. This is the kind of quietness I think is natural. I used to use both Triple Crown and MIT SHD. I mentioned The Tripple Crown on this quiet background noise issue because the TOL MIT doesn’t do this aspect as well as the Siltech. Yet the Kuro offers the same type of this quietness but even quieter than the Tripple Crown. The First aspect that the Kuro grab my attention is the openness of sound with all the details nicely laid out naturally some what like the character of CH Precidion electronics. Then I started to realize that this thing isxtraordinary quiet. However the quietness or blackness did not jump at me. This is the quietness you get without losing anything in sound but the background noise and the artificial sense of blackness.

I don’t have time to write a comprehensive review about Kuro. I am no reviewer and not the owner of Kuro. So I will write more on some different aspects of Kuro that others might not have written. In the end it is best to do the walk not just talk. Try to get a demo and hear yourself without prejudice.

Kind regards
Tang

You've just wrote a great report

Yes I agree 100%.
Bravo

P.S. Hope your ordered cables have arrived.

bazelio · Apr 23, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
Yes, but I've compared them with Nordost Valalla 2, and Oracle was way better on micro-detail too (more natural).
But, you know, cables are also system dependant.
In my system which is extremely revealing, Kuro surpassed by far MIT cables.
Gian has CH precision based system and Tang has Ayon based system, so different systems on which these cables have been successfully installed.

You have to understand that a description like "more natural" is difficult or impossible to interpret. Either a cable is transparent, or it isn't. "More natural" means to me "more in line with my personal subjective preferences" and says little to nothing about transparency except that it probably is NOT transparent. I know nothing of your personal preferences. My local dealer, where I spend a fair amount of time, also uses the Nordost and while I do find it to be a revealing cable I still don't consider it ultimately transparent - and certainly not for the price. Personally, I don't want a "natural sounding" cable. I want a "transparent" cable with which the innate character of the recording and source equipment (turntable, cart, phono) are simply revealed as is - whether that be thin, muddy, dynamic, warm, etc.

bazelio · Apr 23, 2018

Tango said:
One aspect that Paolo didn’t mention is the “quietnes.” Many uber cables like to offer quietness in way of making you feel like there is a “black” background. Blackness..then make mids “pop” distinctively creating an ooh! ahh! when first heard. Siltech Triple Crown is one cable that is very very very quiet without giving a sense that every recording venue is pitch black. But its sound is open clear with a sense of quietness you get in a normal lighting very quiet room. This is the kind of quietness I think is natural. I used to use both Triple Crown and MIT SHD. I mentioned The Tripple Crown on this quiet background noise issue because the TOL MIT doesn’t do this aspect as well as the Siltech. Yet the Kuro offers the same type of this quietness but even quieter than the Tripple Crown. The First aspect that the Kuro grab my attention is the openness of sound with all the details nicely laid out naturally some what like the character of CH Precidion electronics. Then I started to realize that this thing isxtraordinary quiet. However the quietness or blackness did not jump at me. This is the quietness you get without losing anything in sound but the background noise and the artificial sense of blackness.

I don’t have time to write a comprehensive review about Kuro. I am no reviewer and not the owner of Kuro. So I will write more on some different aspects of Kuro that others might not have written. In the end it is best to do the walk not just talk. Try to get a demo and hear yourself without prejudice.

Kind regards
Tang

Is the Kuro shielded or unshielded?

Tango · Apr 23, 2018

bazelio said:
Is the Kuro shielded or unshielded?

Shielded.

caliaripaolo · Apr 24, 2018

bazelio said:
You have to understand that a description like "more natural" is difficult or impossible to interpret. Either a cable is transparent, or it isn't. "More natural" means to me "more in line with my personal subjective preferences" and says little to nothing about transparency except that it probably is NOT transparent. I know nothing of your personal preferences. My local dealer, where I spend a fair amount of time, also uses the Nordost and while I do find it to be a revealing cable I still don't consider it ultimately transparent - and certainly not for the price. Personally, I don't want a "natural sounding" cable. I want a "transparent" cable with which the innate character of the recording and source equipment (turntable, cart, phono) are simply revealed as is - whether that be thin, muddy, dynamic, warm, etc.

Sorry, but I have nothing to understand!!!
I do not have to convince you of anything. It is not my role and I do not understand your interpretation of my words.
I do not understand the connection between

"More natural" means to me "more in line with my personal subjective preferences"

More natural to me means:
1. the violin sounds like when I listen to it live played by a friend of mine,
2. the drum plates have the same jingle or sound as when my son plays it

3. the voice of patricia barber is there in front of me without any sign of veil or digital artifice

but the above, of course, does not depend only by the cables but also by the system on which the cables are inserted.
so, to answer your question:
YES, these cables are neutral and transparent,
NO, these cables add nothing to what your system proposes, but they bring most of the information to the end of their path in the correct way.
BTW, How is your system made up? I do not see in your signature or your profile the system listing.

bazelio · Apr 24, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
Sorry, but I have nothing to understand!!!
I do not have to convince you of anything. It is not my role and I do not understand your interpretation of my words.
I do not understand the connection between
More natural to me means:
1. the violin sounds like when I listen to it live played by a friend of mine,
2. the drum plates have the same jingle or sound as when my son plays it
3. the voice of patricia barber is there in front of me without any sign of veil or digital artifice

but all above, obviously, does not depend only by the cables but also by the system on which the cables are inserted.
so, to answer your question:
YES, these cables are neutral and transparent,
NO, these cables add nothing to what your system proposes, but they bring most of the information to the end of their path in the correct way.
BTW, How is your system made up? I do not see in your signature or your profile the system listing.

Don't worry. I wasn't looking to be convinced, just to obtain an unbiased description of how something sounded. And I attempted to explain that a description like "more natural" can mean almost anything to anyone, so isn't particularly descriptive. And more often than not descriptors like "natural" or "musical" correlate strongly to euphonic colorations as opposed to transparency.

My system at the moment is along the lines of Kuzma Stabi M -> EAR 324 -> DIY passive Slagleformer "preamp" -> EAR 890 -> Martens

KeithR · Apr 24, 2018

caliaripaolo said:
Not me. Tang and Gian have a long list of uber cables they have tried. I've tried MIT Oracle 50, Oracle MA-x2, Nordost Valalla 2, Nordost Odin, Stealth indra v10.

Despite their cost, these “Uber” cables you mention really arent very good to begin with and colored. I’m with Bazelio.

caliaripaolo · Apr 24, 2018

KeithR said:
Despite their cost, these “Uber” cables you mention really arent very good to begin with and colored. I’m with Bazelio.

that these here after mentioned cables

MIT Oracle 50, Oracle MA-x2, Nordost Valalla 2, Nordost Odin, Stealth indra v10

are not very good is your opinion. What does it mean you are with Bazelio?

New trends, Artisans in the Hi-End, Kuro SilverGold cables

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Industry Expert

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Similar threads