DAC architecture reimagined - the Cascade DAC

bryans · May 18, 2024

asiufy said:
As a long-time MSB fan, and yes, dealer (I was a customer first, dealer later), I'm glad to be working with Daniel and Jonathan @ MSB to provide a reasonable, effective way to upgrade existing owners to Cascade, and as a "side effect", potentially offer Certified Reference and Select DACs at a much lower price point to the market.

The question many of us Reference and Select owners have/had isn't about the effective way to upgrade. It is solely on the trade in value. Upgrading along MSB lineup was a major factor for some. I know for me it was the deciding factor of going with MSB. Upgrading and retaining 100% purchase price/value towards a higher model allowed me to move up the line.

With the new policy the move to the Cadence DAC from my Reference would net me basically the same trade in value as my previous Premier. Clearly from a money standpoint you can see loosing ~ $25,000 stings. Also given I upgraded 4 months ago and yes upgrading again was in the plans.

Finally having MSB come out with a product they feel is better for less money is awesome. Kudos to them for this.

bryans · May 18, 2024

MarkusBarkus said:
...it's going to take a while to understand how it all shakes out and how the value prop holds up for current owners. Or upgraders, for that matter.

Very true.

Easy Gliders · May 18, 2024

Daniel Gullman said:
Very clever I guess I should disclose the volume knob is still round, sorry to disappoint.

Thread for the feet is M10, but I can’t recall the pitch currently. We will have that info posted to the technical specifications page later.

Thanks Daniel.
Some of us may want to "increase" the performance of your Cascade DAC by changing the original Viton footers to "better" third-party footers, thus need to know the thread size

Another clarification of the technical specifications already posted for the Cascade is the power consumption:

Is the Standby power consumption = 0.48W or 48W?

Thank you.

Googaliser · May 18, 2024

Easy Gliders said:
Thanks Daniel.
Some of us may want to "increase" the performance of your Cascade DAC by changing the original Viton footers to "better" third-party footers, thus need to know the thread size
Another clarification of the technical specifications already posted for the Cascade is the power consumption:

View attachment 131399
Is the Standby power consumption = 0.48W or 48W?

Thank you.

Looks pretty clear to me; 0.48W

Easy Gliders · May 19, 2024

Googaliser said:
Looks pretty clear to me; 0.48W

I sure hope so!

Dustin Symanski · May 19, 2024

Easy Gliders said:
Thanks Daniel.
Some of us may want to "increase" the performance of your Cascade DAC by changing the original Viton footers to "better" third-party footers, thus need to know the thread size
Another clarification of the technical specifications already posted for the Cascade is the power consumption:

View attachment 131399
Is the Standby power consumption = 0.48W or 48W?

Thank you.

0.48W or 480mW, Just enough for the voltage selection circuity and front display.

Daniel Gullman · May 20, 2024

Easy Gliders said:
Some of us may want to "increase" the performance of your Cascade DAC by changing the original Viton footers to "better" third-party footers, thus need to know the thread size

The thread is M10x1.5

We may make an adapter insert that levels out the foot pocket and reduces the thread size to M6 depending on demand. I see stillpoint supports the M10x1.5, but did you have other footers in mind?

bcurtis1959 · Jun 3, 2024

The Cascade has a ground post without a bridge. Given the recent popularity of ground hubs do you recommend still grounding to the amplifier and ,or a ground hub or both?

Daniel Gullman · Jun 3, 2024

bcurtis1959 said:
The Cascade has a ground post without a bridge. Given the recent popularity of ground hubs do you recommend still grounding to the amplifier and ,or a ground hub or both?

Much like the previous design, there is no always right answer. This is really dependent on the equipment being used and other noise on the mains. Even with our older bridge design, it was not a 100% use case. I left a grounding lug on the power supply for folks to try it out. We currently ground to the amplifier in our listening room with good results. With that grounding lug, feel free to experiment and see what you can come up with. Let us know results!

bcurtis1959 · Jun 3, 2024

The new Cascade at first glance appears to have many similarities with the current Reference and Select. The hybrid DAC modules, 33 clock and a large portion (not all ) digital processing moved to the Director. Can you share any or more of the technical changes that have made the Cascade your current best sounding DAC?

Dustin Symanski · Jun 4, 2024

bcurtis1959 said:
The new Cascade at first glance appears to have many similarities with the current Reference and Select. The hybrid DAC modules, 33 clock and a large portion (not all ) digital processing moved to the Director. Can you share any or more of the technical changes that have made the Cascade your current best sounding DAC?

Using my experience during development of the Digital Director and Cascade DAC, these are the approximate percentages of subsystems and architecture improvements responsible for the increased the sound quality of the Cascade DAC. About 20% of the improvement due to the new higher bandwidth data channel per module supported by combination of the new hardware support in the Analog Converter and the new Hybrid DAC modules. About 20% due to the elimination of upstream noise by the optical Cascade Link. About 10% due to the new power delivery system. About 5% due to an improved clock distribution tree. About 45% due to the complete elimination of digital processing from the Analog Converter box.

MarkusBarkus · Jun 4, 2024

Thanks @Dustin Symanski
That's the accounting *distribution* for the Cascade improvements. Any chance you guys can offer the delta for the Cascade over the Reference and Select products, (using Digital Director)? That's what folks are really clamoring for, although those types of quantitative assessments are always kind of squishy, I realize. Nice of you guys to post here, so thank you.

bcurtis1959 · Jun 4, 2024

Dustin Symanski said:
Using my experience during development of the Digital Director and Cascade DAC, these are the approximate percentages of subsystems and architecture improvements responsible for the increased the sound quality of the Cascade DAC. About 20% of the improvement due to the new higher bandwidth data channel per module supported by combination of the new hardware support in the Analog Converter and the new Hybrid DAC modules. About 20% due to the elimination of upstream noise by the optical Cascade Link. About 10% due to the new power delivery system. About 5% due to an improved clock distribution tree. About 45% due to the complete elimination of digital processing from the Analog Converter box.

Sounds like quite a few changes with this model after all.

matthias · Jun 4, 2024

bryans said:
Upgrading along MSB lineup was a major factor for some. I know for me it was the deciding factor of going with MSB. Upgrading and retaining 100% purchase price/value towards a higher model allowed me to move up the line.

There is no free lunch. This price policy is incorporated in the basic price of every MSB DAC. So if manufacturers do not offer this policy they are able to offer lower prices. So the price of the Cascade might be a move into the right direction.

Daniel Gullman · Jun 4, 2024

Listening impressions from Vince. Another long video

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DAC architecture reimagined - the Cascade DAC

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