Wadax Munich 2022

Elliot G. · May 28, 2022

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another opinion expressed . the music he is referring to was played via Tidal over the Wadax System. I believe the track he was referring to was Terry Bozzio with Bozzio Levin Stevens or it could have been Danny Carey- Chocolate Chip Trip with Tool. These were not played on the turntable.

wil · May 28, 2022

Alrainbow said:
Let me say this one little part
live outside non amped music is not balanced
especially if it’s at distance.

over all your grasping at straws to prove a point you know how music sounds

we all know but we all don’t know what’s correct in ours or any audio room.

those who claim this may have some truth but there is no system that portrays real live music perfectly

if a given system is horrible there still are some who like it
should they be excluded from the club ?

A great live music performance is the Holy Grail, but more often than not, live music is compromised by a number of factors such as terrible acoustics; insane volume levels/distortion with amplified music (controlled by deaf and dumb sound guys); and, with acoustic music, a bad seat where the sound is timid and tepid.

My experience is I can often have a more satisfying music experience listening to a good recording in the controlled environs of a 2 channel listening room.

christoph · May 28, 2022

Audiocrack said:
Christoph, you - as well as a few other WBF members - are constantly quite/very negative about everything that concerns Wadax: the looks of the reference server and dac are awful, the components are sounding horrible, all the reference units are outrageously priced, their customer service is bad, questions / insinuations regarding their factory in Madrid, etc (and to be absolutely clear: the last two aspects were not brought up by you). I suppose that new audio products / components that (i) receive enormous praise by three professional reviewers in different parts of the world, (ii) therefore pose a ‘threat’ to existing audio manufacturers of digital components and (iii) cost a lot of money, typically draw negative comments. And that is fine (with me) as long as no false accusations or fake comments are being fabricated: after all we are very lucky to be (still) living in a free world (I refer to what is currently happening in Oekraïne) so everybody is entitled to his/her own (audio) opinion and free to express their views. That said, revealing the rrp of Wadax new products - their reference PSU and DC cables - on WBF undoubtedly will lead to additional negative comments (by the same members) and I see no reason why I should ‘contribute’ to such comments.

Yes, I said I find the aesthetics hideous, that is my personal opinion. "De gustibus..." and so on.

I wanted to know what all the buzz is about Wadax and went to listen to all the rooms sporting Wadax gear in Munich and they all sounded horrible to me.

I don't need a reviewer to tell me what I hear

I'm a big boy and am experienced enough to know what sounds good to me and what definitely doesn't

And please leave the Ukraine Topic out of this. This has nothing to do with anything about Wadax

morricab · May 28, 2022

wil said:
A great live music performance is the Holy Grail, but more often than not, live music is compromised by a number of factors such as terrible acoustics; insane volume levels/distortion with amplified music (controlled by deaf and dumb sound guys); and, with acoustic music, a bad seat where the sound is timid and tepid.

My experience is I can often have a more satisfying music experience listening to a good recording in the controlled environs of a 2 channel listening room.

It’s not about good or bad live sound…it’s that it sounds live or not and what makes that distinction and why some systems do it much mm better than others.

marmota · May 28, 2022

Elliot G. said:
Göbel High End, Kronos and True Life Audio | High End 2022

Hi-Fi news, gear reviews, and interviews

parttimeaudiophile.com

another opinion expressed . the music he is referring to was played via Tidal over the Wadax System. I believe the track he was referring to was Terry Bozzio with Bozzio Levin Stevens or it could have been Danny Carey- Chocolate Chip Trip with Tool. These were not played on the turntable.

I'm not surprised he thinks that is the best sound of the show. Those speakers are very well designed, using cones of the same materials and a waveguided AMT to blend better with the mids. Even sub uses cone of the same material as speakers.There's no replacement for displacement and 18 + 12 + 8 inches driver + big AMT move lots of air effortlessly. I was not there but I understand the appeal, conceptually miles away from from the typical "boom boom, thud thud 8 inch woofers at best" usually seen in most "high end speakers". I'm pretty sure the amps, preamp and the Wadax digital sources did a lot for the sound, but those speakers are probably awesome to be honest.

andromedaaudio · May 28, 2022

morricab said:
It’s not about good or bad live sound…it’s that it sounds live or not and what makes that distinction and why some systems do it much mm better than others.

Lol , I guess that involves a AC SET morricab ?
SET is short for Super. Exceptional. Tone

Audiocrack · May 28, 2022

christoph said:
Yes, I said I find the aesthetics hideous, that is my personal opinion. "De gustibus..." and so on.

I wanted to know what all the buzz is about Wadax and went to listen to all the rooms sporting Wadax gear in Munich and they all sounded horrible to me.

I don't need a reviewer to tell me what I hear
I'm a big boy and am experienced enough to know what sounds good to me and what definitely doesn't

And please leave the Ukraine Topic out of this. This has nothing to do with anything about Wad

Always a good / interesting read when someone writes about himself being a big boy.

Suggesting that I suggested that Ukraine has something to do with Wadax is - to put it politely - rather odd. I will leave it at that.

Mike Lavigne · May 28, 2022

amadeus said:
Dear Mike for me there are no Vinyl sound standards and Digital Sound Standards there are only Music standards and for proper music reproduction its a must to have powerful articulated tight and tuneful bass and natural full bodied transparent fast and adorned whit billions of tonal colors midrange and open wide band sparkling highs that doesn't make ssssssss sounds only and doesn't make the cymbals of a drum kit all types sizes and brands sounds whit only ssssssss sounds but where you clearly hear and feel the differences of cymbals and even the differences of the sticks.....
All mentioned above are not "Digital or Analog" parameters but true musical obligations!

ok, fair enough. nothing to quibble with.

so allow me to more narrowly ask my question; can you cite an example of any digital playback that fulfils those expectations for you? gear and system context?

christoph · May 28, 2022

Audiocrack said:
Always a good / interesting read when someone writes about himself being a big boy.

Suggesting that I suggested that Ukraine has something to do with Wadax is - to put it politely - rather odd. I will leave it at that.

I'm grown up and experienced enough not to need a reviewer to tell me what I hear. does that sound better to you?

Who brought Ukraine into the topic? Me or you?

morricab · May 28, 2022

andromedaaudio said:
Lol , I guess that involves a AC SET morricab ?
SET is short for Super. Exceptional. Tone

Not necessarily but it’s a very good place to Start…

Audiocrack · May 28, 2022

christoph said:
I'm grown up and experienced enough not to need a reviewer to tell me what I hear. does that sound better to you?

Who brought Ukraine into the topic? Me or you?

Being a ‘big boy’ it should not have been that difficult to understand what I actually meant with the reference to Ukraine.

Nobody (including me) suggested in any way that reviewers are telling us what we (should) hear.

I do not think that our current interaction is very fruitful or (likely) interesting to others. Therefore I suggest we move on: you made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that you do not like the Wadax reference components. We have taken notice of that.

howiebrou · May 28, 2022

Mike Lavigne said:
so allow me to more narrowly ask my question; can you cite an example of any digital playback that fulfils those expectations for you? gear and system context?

I can not think of any system that sounds anything like the real live music experience be it digital, vinyl or tape. Not even close. If I was chasing this tail I would have given up years ago. For me i am just happy if i like the sound and I am happy that it gets me as far as it does. Self preservation perhaps or just being pragmatic?

christoph · May 28, 2022

Audiocrack said:
I do not think that our current interaction is very fruitful or (likely) interesting to others. Therefore I suggest we move on: you made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that you do not like the Wadax reference components. We have taken notice of that.

You are right. Let's leave it.
But one last thing: I listened open minded to the several Wadax rooms and IMHO they all underperformed (to put it mildly)
WE as in team Wadax?

Audiocrack · May 28, 2022

christoph said:
You are right. Let's leave it.
But one last thing: I listened open minded to the several Wadax rooms and IMHO they all underperformed (to put it mildly)
WE as in team Wadax?

“We as in team Wadax?” I hope you are kidding me, Christoph, because otherwise it would be a really nasty remark. But I will spell it out to you: we as the WBF participants following this thread.

Argonaut · May 28, 2022

andromedaaudio said:
ll take wadax over the Lampi anytime .
The lampi sounds a bit tubey in comparison.( to my ears)

Personal opinion … or “just plain negativity“

Mike Lavigne · May 28, 2022

marty said:
Not surprising, there appears to be a range of opinions on the Wadax. I have now heard it in 4 different and very good systems and I tend to agree with the comments above. It does indeed have excellent tone. It is also low in distortion and I have no quarrel with the bass I have heard (generally more so a function of the room and speakers). It is definitely euphonic, and I mean that in a good way. Very pleasing. But where I struggle is that it's just not representative of the way real music sounds. I find it somewhat flat and in that sense devoid of the sense of life that is in the real thing, especially in the upper registers. The main liability for me is its lack of proper harmonics more than the fundamentals. They are just plainly truncated (is that the lack of sparkle to which amadeus refers?). All you have to do is play a piano or a violin to appreciate that the harmonics do not float above the instrument as they do in life. There is no layering of harmonics. (I'm not referring to sound stage layering and instrument placement).

Still, my take away is that it's a damn fine piece, but it's just not sonically correct by my ears nor something I aspire to for my system. And btw, cost is irrelevant to my assessment. I'm talking SQ merits (or de-merits) only. I don't know if this makes any sense but there is something about the sound of the Wadax that reminds me of another DAC, namely the Meitner EMM DA2 which I owned for several years. Is it that I seem to prefer DACs that process recordings in their native configuration? I don't know, but there's a quality in the Wadax that is eerily reminiscent of the Meitner. Again, there's no other way to express it except to say that if you think the sound of a violin or piano is correct through a Wadax, then I'm happy for you. I do not.

And that is why I bought a Horizon (if it ever gets here). It is precisely that ability of my Golden Gate 2 to reproduce the sound of instruments in all their harmonic splendor that I adore which makes it easy to believe the sound I'm hearing is a genuinely good facsimile of the real thing. In short, the Lampi does not get in the way of the illusion. The Wadax does, at least for me. The Lampi GG2 simply conveys the life of real music far more convincingly, however YMMV. That the Horizon (which promises to do this even better than the GG2) costs 1/3rd of the Wadax is just gravy.

Marty, appreciate your take on this. and i would be foolish to cross swords with you regarding deeper musical traits. you have done the time and the work and can express your perspective about music beyond me. much respect. i can't tell you what to value.

i have to fall back on my references i use, and what kind of listening i do daily. my number one go to music is small classical; lots of solo piano, solo violin, cello, trios, and especially String Quartets. i do lots of them on vinyl and digital. often back to back. as i have listened to various dacs and servers over the years this music has been significant in separating hardware....the good from the great. on this music, directly comparing the Wadax, MSB, Aqua Formula, GG1.5, Nagra HD, and Trinity dacs in my system to my vinyl references, the Wadax is in a different league of mid range tonal beauty and fire, textures, and timbre. going back to the GG1.5 and the Nagra HD dac i had for a few days, sure the tubes did some tube things (harmonic shading you mention?) i enjoyed.....but fell short in sorting out textural and timbral details and micro-dynamic life. they were not as real sounding to me 5 years ago as the MSB Select II was then, which was not close to the Wadax 5 months ago in my system.

is my vinyl a worthy reference for what sounds real in a recording? it is for me.

and i absolutely love how the Wadax does this type of music. i can switch back and forth between the Wadax and my vinyl and the Wadax is hanging right there unlike any other digital.

it's amazing. i'm still in awe after 5 months just how deep into digital recordings the Wadax gets. i can listen to this stuff all day, and do many times.

in a perfect world you would be here in my room with your dac of choice and we would both listen to the best reference we could that we agreed on, and then see how both dacs did. i hope it happens at some point.

morricab · May 28, 2022

howiebrou said:
I can not think of any system that sounds anything like the real live music experience be it digital, vinyl or tape. Not even close. If I was chasing this tail I would have given up years ago. For me i am just happy if i like the sound and I am happy that it gets me as far as it does. Self preservation perhaps or just being pragmatic?

Really? Sorry to hear that…

andromedaaudio · May 28, 2022

morricab said:
Really? Sorry to hear that…

Morricab that s nothing
Tonight i had again the police at the door who said the neighbours were complaining that i had a live concert going on at my house .
They wanted to fine me , but then they looked at the stereo , lol.
And i don t even have a SET ( Super Exiting Tone ) yet .

@ The Moon you dont see me complaining / criticizing Lampi in the Lampi thread.
If i have not much usefull to say.

@ Morricab it was a little joke off course , and even Sets have weaknesses i heard plenty of that in munchen

Sorry of topic back to WADAX

Alrainbow · May 28, 2022

morricab said:
Really? Sorry to hear tha

morricab said:

Really? Sorry to hear that…

Click to expand...

No need to be sorry he is being honest lol. And I agree a good setup can do many things perfect but I can’t honestly say it’s as is live. in our brains yea but this is smoke and mirrors

microstrip · May 28, 2022

howiebrou said:
I can not think of any system that sounds anything like the real live music experience be it digital, vinyl or tape. Not even close. If I was chasing this tail I would have given up years ago. For me i am just happy if i like the sound and I am happy that it gets me as far as it does. Self preservation perhaps or just being pragmatic?

It all depends on how we define "sounds like real" music. As long as people want to ignore the different physics of stereo and of real music and just want to debate "musical experiences" we will spend 90% of our time debating the semantics of subjective writings.

IMHO systems do not sound like real experiences, they just reproduce enough or the real without adding artifacts that fool us in a great experience. This stimulation is enough trigger emotions similar to those I experience in a concert hall, sometimes even stronger but surely different. Curiously when I listen at home I sometimes optimistically feel that my system approaches the real experience, but as soon as I go in a life experience I immediately see how different real is.

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