Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons

[Ron Resnick]

The feedback from all around seems overwhelmingly positive.

For sure, but keep in mind you're on a LampizatOr thread, discussing its newest flagship model. Marty's rave review of the 360 is by far for me the most probative and persuasive data point thus far about the new model.

Are there no downsides in sound vs the top solid state DACs?

As with virtually everything in this hobby a lot depends on your personal sonic preferences. The reports by pk_LA and me go into detail about the differences. Check out, especially, my conclusion which summarizes the differences.

On the sonic parameters which subjectively matter most to me I found that the Horizon and the Kassandra tube DACs sound noticeably different than the dCS Apex, MSB Select and Wadax solid-state DACs. Each of the top level DACs has its ardent fans and owners. Each has its subtle pros and cons depending on your personal subjective sonic preferences.

My personal favorite overall was the Horizon. So it is no surprise that I own a LampizatOr (just a lower model down). As I have posted and said many, many times "as far as digital goes somehow LampizatOr just works for me."

 

[Steve williams]

The only downside is the tube rolling which can prove addictive if you’re not careful

 

[Ron Resnick]

True! But there is no obligation to tube roll -- someone new to LampizatOr should not feel any pressure to do so.

A very good solid-state biased friend of mine was planning to get the Horizon, but he got derailed and turned off by all of the incoming suggestions and insistence about tube rolling.

 

[Steve williams]

To each his own. The beauty of the unit is being able to find a tube kit that works best with one’s system as well as best with one’s ears. Once one finds that combination then you’re done Your friend by your own admission was a solid state biased user so imo why waste any one’s time. There is no insistence about tube rolling. That’s a pretty bold statement IMHO There is however a thread specific to tube rolling on the Horizon but nowhere in the manual is there any insistence that one must tube roll. As I see it tube rolling in the Horizon is the same as a vinyl user who has a multitude of cartridges and tonearms such as you do . I say pick your poison. There is no wrong answer and there is certainly no insistence anywhere

 

[rspyder]

My Horizon 360 is now well on its way to full break-in so it was time to share the listening experience. A good friend is a musician who has played with Philadelphia Orchestra spent the evening last night and his comments were fascinating. It's always interesting when you play the system for musician rather than an audiophile. His main observation succinctly put, is is that he has never heard a music reproduction system capture the timbre of real instruments as what he heard last evening. For him, it's all about instrument timbre and it was the authentic timbre of the instrument that was transformative and made the players seem to appear before him with a realism he had not previously heard (he has heard my system several times previously). My friend is a trumpet player and he commented repeatedly on the heightened clarity of the orchestral instruments he heard.

What blew my mind is that on recording after recording, he identified trumpet player after trumpet player (not just the principals but the 2nd and 3rd seats as well) of the great orchestras of the world because he recognized the sound of their individual playing. He said the level of transparency he heard was something he had not previously experienced and that allowed him to identify exactly who was playing. What impressed him was that Horizon's newfound improved transparency is coupled to a very organic sound and on this point, I could not agree more.

I can now appreciate the comments of others who thought the Horizon, as good as it is, did not have the same organic sound signature as some of the DHT DACs in the Lampi line-up such as the GG3 or Pacific. But the organic sound of the Horizon 360 removes this concern, at least for me, and it very much adds to the sonic merits of the unit. The combination of transparency and lower distortion with enhanced organicity allowed him to make other observations that surprised me. For example, we played a Prokofiev piece (Decca) and without knowing who was playing he commented that he could hear the vibrato of the oboe so clearly that he knew if must be a European orchestra -it was indeed the London Symphony!. (Apparently, American orchestra oboe players are not trained to play with vibrato as much or at all- who knew?) This was one of several observations he made that were the result of the system improvements he heard with the Horizon 360.

Just like audiophiles who often pride themselves in hearing sonic details that others care little about, musicians also have their nits to pick. My friend made repeated comments about the mouthpieces certain players used that he said he could distinguish for the first time due to the increased timbral resolution of the system, but these comments were well above my pay grade as I could neither appreciate their distinctions, nor care enough to learn more! My favorite comment however, came after we played the 4th movement of Reiner's Scheherezade to which he said "I always knew the CSO was great, but I didn't appreciate how great they were until I heard this piece tonight on your system". If an orchestral musician can say that as the result of a specific piece of gear added to one's system, that sort of puts what the Horizon 360 offers musically into the proper perspective.

Thank you Marty for the very detailed and helpful early impressions of the Horizon 360 sonic qualities. One quick question; during the listening session with your musician friend was your new Horizon 360 still connected to your Taiko Extreme via USB and an FTA Sinope cable?

Many thanks,

Ray

 

[marty]

Thank you Marty for the very detailed and helpful early impressions of the Horizon 360 sonic qualities. One quick question; during the listening session with your musician friend was your new Horizon 360 still connected to your Taiko Extreme via USB and an FTA Sinope cable?

Many thanks,

Ray

Yes.
"(For the record, I run a Cossar 53KU regulator, Mullard ECC2 triodes, and P17c pentodes in mullingmrs copper wire/gold pin adapters. I am connecting the 360 to my Taiko Extreme via USB and an FTA Sinope cable.)"

 

[plasmod3]

Thanks . The feedback from all around seems overwhelmingly positive. Are there no downsides in sound vs the top solid state DACs?

solid state makes sense for amps- not the front end

 

[ationg]

solid state makes sense for amps- not the front end

I have not owned a tubed DAC let alone a Lampizator. I did have a few tube line stages and power amps and I found them not only hot but also noisy vs SS and I have stayed away since.

 

[dcathro]

To each his own. The beauty of the unit is being able to find a tube kit that works best with one’s system as well as best with one’s ears. Once one finds that combination then you’re done

I think this would depend on your personality. Some of us are never done

There is no insistence about tube rolling. That’s a pretty bold statement IMHO There is however a thread specific to tube rolling on the Horizon but nowhere in the manual is there any insistence that one must tube roll. As I see it tube rolling in the Horizon is the same as a vinyl user who has a multitude of cartridges and tonearms such as you do . I say pick your poison. There is no wrong answer and there is certainly no insistence anywhere

I think that the tube rolling aspect is one of the biggest selling points of the brand. It would be interesting to poll how many people leave their units stock.

 

[plasmod3]

I have not owned a tubed DAC let alone a Lampizator. I did have a few tube line stages and power amps and I found them not only hot but also noisy vs SS and I have stayed away since.

makles sense - and we all have our own truths. these posts are not here to persuade but to share. nothing wrong with mercedes vs bmw.you cant hot rod a ss dac though but you can a tube dac. stock is ok but it is the potential for hotrodding that makes it so fascinating. you also need to choose your tube components carefully as not all manufacturers are good - forget about brands in tube components- some of the best out there dont advertising or have a marketing budget

 

[plasmod3]

I think this would depend on your personality. Some of us are never done


I think that the tube rolling aspect is one of the biggest selling points of the brand. It would be interesting to poll how many people leave their units stock.

stock! that will be such a shame....

 

[Steve williams]

I think that the tube rolling aspect is one of the biggest selling points of the brand. It would be interesting to poll how many people leave their units stock.

I totally agree. It was Ron’s comment using the word insistence to which I responded

If you read the manual it's pretty simple...in Lukasz words.....

We supply the tubes that are purchased new from reliable sources. They are tested and matched.
WE DO NOT DEAL WITH NOS TUBES, leaving this fun entirely to YOU.

 

[Steve williams]

I have not owned a tubed DAC let alone a Lampizator. I did have a few tube line stages and power amps and I found them not only hot but also noisy vs SS and I have stayed away since.

I followed the development of Lampizator for years before I decided to buy in as it was the noise comments that seemed to deter me. However with the advent of the Pacific, those comments disappeared and since then I have been a happy owner of the Pacific and now my 3rd Horizon. There is no noise and as commented the tube rolling is half the fun. For me however I played the game until I found the ones that suited my room and my ears

 

[ctydwn]

And they can double as art…
joking aside, it is astonishing what the Horizon is capable of. I too was reluctant to step into tubes at all. It is one of the best audio decisions I have made thanks to all the input, support and enthusiasm here.

(edit: should also have mentioned I leave my Horizon running 24/7 and never have had a tube failure. current set been in non stop for 9-10 months now. also, the hard work has been done by some folks here that can point anyone to a tube set or two that will suit their tastes. imho)

 

[Whbgarrett]

I will be curious to learn whether anyone decides that they have new favorite tube combos as the result of upgrading from the H1 to the H360, and for that matter the same question could be asked about going from the Extreme and USB to the Olympus and XDMI.

 

[Steve williams]

I will be curious to learn whether anyone decides that they have new favorite tube combos as the result of upgrading from the H1 to the H360, and for that matter the same question could be asked about going from the Extreme and USB to the Olympus and XDMI.

Im betting "no" on that

 

[Audiocrack]

solid state makes sense for amps- not the front end

Could you please explain? Tubes are intrinsic noisy and that is why - after using various tube dacs (like for example Zanden and Lampizator) - I opted finally for solid state source components (in my case the Wadax Reference combination).

 

[bonzo75]

Could you please explain? Tubes are intrinsic noisy and that is why - after using various tube dacs (like for example Zanden and Lampizator) - I opted finally for solid state source components (in my case the Wadax Reference combination).

No tubes are not noisy else you would have been using soulution or spectral instead of Kondo.

As for Zanden, both Detlof and I thought his MSB diamond was quite better than the Zanden, I found the Soulution power amp (which I don’t like) to be better than Zanden 9600 on the new Sonus Faber on most aspects, a UK made 101d preamp under 10k was quite better than the Zanden mk2 preamp, Detlof’s Zanden phono was his 4th rated among his collection, another guy sold off his Zanden phono after comparing it Misho’s 4k (direct price) phono.

 

[Audiocrack]

No tubes are not noisy else you would have been using soulution or spectral instead of Kondo.

As for Zanden, both Detlof and I thought his MSB diamond was quite better than the Zanden, I found the Soulution power amp (which I don’t like) to be better than Zanden 9600 on the new Sonus Faber on most aspects, a UK made 101d preamp under 10k was quite better than the Zanden mk2 preamp, Detlof’s Zanden phono was his 4th rated among his collection, another guy sold off his Zanden phono after comparing it Misho’s 4k (direct price) phono.

See for example: https://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?forum=tubes&searchtext=tube+rush+noise

For source components I find tube rush/noise (in my Tidal LA set up) distracting because you cannot remedy ‘problems’ at the source. On the contrary, these ‘problems’ are being amplified and in a very transparent system that is (to me anyway) annoying.

But of course more elements than tube noise / rush have to be taken into account when assembling an audio system. The fact that I have opted for Kondo (tube) amps in my audio system is inter alia motivated by:
- unlike nearly all other audio manufacturers Kondo does not employ aluminum but copper for their chassis. Copper is an ideal material for grounding and this provides the possibility to lower the noise floor very significantly, provided you use top notch grounding.
- so far I have not encountered an solid state amplifier that can match the purity casu quo non mechanicalness of the Kondo (tube) amplifiers.

But I do not want to interfere with this thread in which another topic is being addressed. It is just that imho the quote I reacted to is (at least) very debatable.

 

[bonzo75]

See for example: https://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?forum=tubes&searchtext=tube+rush+noise

For source components I find tube rush/noise (in my Tidal LA set up) distracting because you cannot remedy ‘problems’ at the source. On the contrary, these ‘problems’ are being amplified and in a very transparent system that is (to me anyway) annoying.

I also think 90 percent phono users I meet are tube