Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[Zeotrope]

While performance differences measured in relative percentages provide a practical means to illustrate the improvements to expect, as MolaDiego mentions, they are not mathematically verifiable. Indeed, they are subjective estimates that provide a handle on the value of relative differences that are otherwise difficult to bring across. As we move forward in time and more options and upgrades are released, comparing earlier percentages to later ones becomes ever more abstract. The wheels are moving very quickly at Taiko HQ! Although Emile is admittedly very good at providing relative percentages, I would recommend using them only as a rough guide, not as gospel

Exactly, Christiaan took the thought right out of my brain.
Come on, guys! You cannot use a mathematical % to correlate a subjective, and emotional response! We are listening to music, after all, not building a financial model.
It’s also highly subjective and biased… so even if the % made sense, it will vary from person to person.
Of course getting the latest and greatest from Taiko will sound better, that’s a given! There are no diminishing returns if you buy the right components in high-end audio. You spend more, you get more. The concept of diminishing returns was fabricated by those who do not, or cannot, spend more.

 

[Moladiego]

Exactly, Christiaan took the thought right out of my brain.
Come on, guys! You cannot use a mathematical % to correlate a subjective, and emotional response! We are listening to music, after all, not building a financial model.
It’s also highly subjective and biased… so even if the % made sense, it will vary from person to person.
Of course getting the latest and greatest from Taiko will sound better, that’s a given! There are no diminishing returns if you buy the right components in high-end audio. You spend more, you get more. The concept of diminishing returns was fabricated by those who do not, or cannot, spend more.

Even the meaning or interpretation of "diminished returns" is subjective. I don't view it as in the pejorative sense you had in mind. Moving from O to I/O may be a diminished return (understood in a neutral sense) as I recall Emile's description of I/O: "When you add the I/O to the Olympus you increase isolation levels a bit more, no rfi/emi pickup from other hardware, a few degrees lower operating temperatures, doubled up battery power/isolation, it does improve things a but further but not as much as it does for the Extreme." It all depends on one's wallet size, willingness to pay a huge premium to get just 9% improvement (not saying I/O's improvement is 9%; only as an example) and priorities of life (you can spend 20K exploring the world instead), etc. You will get a HUGE jump by upgrading from Schiiit DAC to Lampi Horizon DAC, or from Rockna server (both of which I had at the start) to the Extreme, but from Extreme to O, and esp. from O to I/O (speculative ATM) may be a kind of diminished return in comparison to the move from Schiit or Rochna. Nothing bad with the use of "diminished return" in this context because both the manufacturers and the end users would need to incur disproportionately more expenses to move from the exalted levels of Horizon and Extreme. BTW, spending more and getting more is not always true; some fancy products do not pan out. I heard the $190K Schweikert Ultra 7speakers; I prefer my cheaper (1/3 price) speakers - there you go, subjective here too.

 

[Steve Williams]

Even the meaning or interpretation of "diminished returns" is subjective. I don't view it as in the pejorative sense you had in mind. Moving from O to I/O may be a diminished return (understood in a neutral sense) as I recall Emile's description of I/O: "When you add the I/O to the Olympus you increase isolation levels a bit more, no rfi/emi pickup from other hardware, a few degrees lower operating temperatures, doubled up battery power/isolation, it does improve things a but further but not as much as it does for the Extreme." It all depends on one's wallet size, willingness to pay a huge premium to get just 9% improvement (not saying I/O's improvement is 9%; only as an example) and priorities of life (you can spend 20K exploring the world instead), etc. You will get a HUGE jump by upgrading from Schiiit DAC to Lampi Horizon DAC, or from Rockna server (both of which I had at the start) to the Extreme, but from Extreme to O, and esp. from O to I/O (speculative ATM) may be a kind of diminished return in comparison to the move from Schiit or Rochna. Nothing bad with the use of "diminished return" in this context because both the manufacturers and the end users would need to incur disproportionately more expenses to move from the exalted levels of Horizon and Extreme. BTW, spending more and getting more is not always true; some fancy products do not pan out. I heard the $190K Schweikert Ultra 7speakers; I prefer my cheaper (1/3 price) speakers - there you go, subjective here too.

I look at the entire Taiko scene in a much more simplistic approach. To me the statements which echo in my mind are not these silly percentages which to me are absolutely meaningless. I hinge my total support and faith in Emile who said many months ago that the two biggest upticks in SQ are NSM at number two and the BPS at number one. 'Nuf' said. Im all in as Emile convinced me with those two statements.

There will be early adopters just as there are with any new component. Data points will come from these adopters but the bottom line is these are merely data points as YMMV because it is all system specific as well as preference. I think these debates about percentages better than others is simply useless. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" My appetite grows daily as the ship to date is rapidly approaching. Let's circle the wagons at that point and talk then. Everything else is just talk IMHO

 

[Moladiego]

I look at the entire Taiko scene in a much more simplistic approach. To me the statements which echo in my mind are not these silly percentages which to me are absolutely meaningless. I hinge my total support and faith in Emile who said many months ago that the two biggest upticks in SQ are NSM at number two and the BPS at number one. 'Nuf' said. Im all in as Emile convinced me with those two statements.

There will be early adopters just as there are with any new component. Data points will come from these adopters but the bottom line is these are merely data points as YMMV because it is all system specific as well as preference. I think these debates about percentages better than others is simply useless. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" My appetite grows daily as the ship to date is rapidly approaching. Let's circle the wagons at that point and talk then. Everything else is just talk IMHO

Steve, we all need to realize that your talk as well as mine is just your talk (and mine) - personal, subjective. Same goes for your or early adopters' feedback and "percentages". Same goes for your wagon and appetite. They are all equally useful and useless, meaningful and meaningless. Only one's own ears and priorities matter in the end because one listens to and lives with his own system.

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, we all need to realize that your talk as well as mine is just your talk (and mine) - personal, subjective. Same goes for your or early adopters' feedback and "percentages". Same goes for your wagon and appetite. They are all equally useful or useless, meaningful and meaningless. Only one's own ears and priorities matter in the end because one listens to and lives with his own system.

Actually not. My talk is a quote from Emile many months ago. I would say forget the talk and listen. I think we agree there. What I think is silly to discuss is percentage uptick one component vs another.

 

[jbrrp1]

Wait, what?! You mean I'm not going to get my 300% SQ increase with the O + I/O upgrade? I've been counting on that (and eager to hear just what 300% could possibly mean).

 

[Tuckia]

Percentages just allow us to talk about something in the absense of experience or other’s field reports. Making decisions based on these place holders is the debatable part.

Steve, any ideas when your get together will happen?

 

[Tuckia]

Wait, what?! You mean I'm not going to get my 300% SQ increase with the O + I/O upgrade? I've been counting on that (and eager to hear just what 300% could possibly mean).

Proving the numbers wrong is the tricky part . Often we hear talk of 5, 10, or a bold 20% claim when discussing upgrades. So triple digit claims from the usually even keeled Emile does warrant some attention. If the switch was a proclaimed 15%, and that is the yardstick, I’m getting ready with my bag of popcorn.

 

[jbrrp1]

Proving the numbers wrong is the tricky part . Often we hear talk of 5, 10, or a bold 20% claim when discussing upgrades. So triple digit claims from the usually even keeled Emile does warrant some attention. If the switch was a proclaimed 15%, and that is the yardstick, I’m getting ready with my bag of popcorn.

Yeah. I'll need to buy some Depends that are my size before I fire it up...

 

[Moladiego]

Actually not. My talk is a quote from Emile many months ago. I would say forget the talk and listen. I think we agree there. What I think is silly to discuss is percentage uptick one component vs another.

Steve, in the end it is all TALK - including talk from manufacturers. End user talk, manufacture talk, dealer talk, promoter talk and so on. Your talk won't end talk. This forum is for talk (controlled as it is). There are differences there - some talk has hidden (not obvious) motives and incentives (manufacturers need to market and sell products; dealers, including de facto dealers, get paid based on sales or promotion, obviously biased). Some talk involves conflicts of interest. In the end, one learns from experience (certain guys' opinions are more reliable than others' and certain manufacturers' products are more trustworthy than others', etc. from my experience). All personal.

 

[Steve Williams]

we seem to be saying the same thing Ray, if you want the last word, you've got it. It's all yours

 

[Moladiego]

Wait, what?! You mean I'm not going to get my 300% SQ increase with the O + I/O upgrade? I've been counting on that (and eager to hear just what 300% could possibly mean).

Indeed, same for 2x+ soundstage. My room is 17x 16 x 9'. I already have wall-to-wall soundstage from the Extreme-Horizon combo. 2x soundstage would tear down the boundary of my room and fill up the whole house? I need to work 10x hard to get a much bigger room/house for the 10x explosion of soundstage. Tongue in cheek

 

[Moladiego]

we seem to be saying the same thing Ray, if you want the last word, you've got it. It's all yours

Were we saying the same thing? Last word belongs to you, Steve, as the elder stateman, site owner and mega sized influencer.

 

[Steve Williams]

Ray. TBH we were saying the anything. I said forget the talk and use your ears. People always have opinions but when it comes to my sound system, the only thing that matters is how it sounds to me in my own room. My mantra has always been “am I hearing something better or merely something different.. and if better, how so?”. I’ve lived by that credo forever. Bottom line for me is “ let my ears and my wallet dictate my choices“.

There is no final word yet I do place more credence on what people say about what they heard rather than how big an uptick. You commented that increased SQ affects sound stage. I dont believe a 3x increase in SQ causes a 3x increase in width of sound stage as you intimated At any rate I think I’ve made my point as have you so last word is yours

 

[Tuckia]

Yeah. I'll need to buy some Depends that are my size before I fire it up...

If you first wave guys start talking in colors about your Olympus experiences, I’ll have to mortgage the house and order one before they are made illegal in this country for being too much fun.

 

[Tuckia]

Must be raining in SoCal yet

 

[Moladiego]

Ray. TBH we were saying the anything. I said forget the talk and use your ears. People always have opinions but when it comes to my sound system, the only thing that matters is how it sounds to me in my own room. My mantra has always been “am I hearing something better or merely something different.. and if better, how so?”. I’ve lived by that credo forever. Bottom line for me is “ let my ears and my wallet dictate my choices“.

There is no final word yet I do place more credence on what people say about what they heard rather than how big an uptick. You commented that increased SQ affects sound stage. I dont believe a 3x increase in SQ causes a 3x increase in width of sound stage as you intimated At any rate I think I’ve made my point as have you so last word is yours

No disagreement here except I don't hold a view attributed to me or the use of "final word" or "last word" - c'mon, is there the final word unless it is the Word or "logos" from the Gospel, John 1? Even so it is only for a certain sect of believers in the view of others; there are agnostics or non-believers and other sects of believers who hold equally strong (or even stronger) views in this small world. 2X+ soundstage expansion was the talk from the Taiko "gospel" (to borrow Punter's word), not from me. I don't believe in correlation (not in the same extent of x% margin) of SQ and soundstage (the comment was made tongue in cheek), just as I don't believe in the correlation of price and quality. Often a product is much more expensive simply because it is much more expensive to manufacture that product (certain parts are much harder and expensive to source) - the costs do not (necessarily or always) translate into SQ by the extent of the additional costs. Or one pays top premium for top brand (partially resulting from huge marketing and influencer expense and exposure). Too much talk leaves no or very little room for music. I missed the days in the 1990s when I discovered one masterpiece after another with a seriously subpar (by today's standard) system - where is the ecstasy of discovery with today's endless fuss over SQ? Have a good weekend!

 

[Kris]

Indeed, same for 2x+ soundstage. My room is 17x 16 x 9'. I already have wall-to-wall soundstage from the Extreme-Horizon combo. 2x soundstage would tear down the boundary of my room and fill up the whole house? I need to work 10x hard to get a much bigger room/house for the 10x explosion of soundstage. Tongue in cheek

Wall to Wall?
This is not what I look for.
I already have 2x bigger Soundstage than my room is, with Extreme making it happen.
So the good news is you don't need a bigger room. You might need a better electronics, speakers or cables to open Extreme potential.

 

[Moladiego]

Wall to Wall?
This is not what I look for.
I already have 2x bigger Soundstage than my room is, with Extreme making it happen.
So the good news is you don't need a bigger room. You might need a better electronics, speakers or cables to open Extreme potential.

Did you see the words " Tongue in cheek" in the quoted comment from me? You were the second who failed to see my disclaimer with this emoji . Sorry for not capitalizing and boldfacing the phrase: "TONGUE IN CHEEK". Case closed.

 

[fbhifi]

I’m awaiting my Taiko switch, router and DCD and looking at rack space for the placement of these pieces.

Is anybody stacking the switch and router? Or the switch, router and DCD on top? If you’re stacking, are you using footers of some sort in between?