How much is too much?

[naturephoto1]

Not sure if he is still there but my go-to guy was always Patrick Bresnahan

Hi Steve,

I am not sure if Patrick is still with Krell. He had been as I recall the top person in repair. But, as I recall there is/was some woman now in the responsibility.

OK guys.

Have a great and safe Holiday weekend. I am on my way out the door to participate at the Art and Craft Fair at the Ulster County Fair Grounds in New Paltz, NY (over 27 years for this show). Keep your fingers crossed with the economy. I have a lot of work some of which hasn't been out for some time and I will be giving big discounts on this and have 8 of the Metal Prints that I will be offering at a "low" introductory offer.

I'll be back on Tuesday.

Rich

 

[mep]

Frantz-bear with me for one more post. I talked to the guy that sold me the amp and he agreed to refund $500 to me. Plus, he had already paid UPS for shipping from me back to him in Canada and UPS won't refund his money but they will apply the money paid towards shipping the unit back to Krell. I'm also going to buy a new KSA-250 shipping box and packing materials for a whopping $225.00 as I don't trust the original box and it could have been part of the problem. Krell's labor rate is $125 per hour. I'm pretty sure that if they recap this beast and peform the repair, it will be around $1000. However, I paid $2190 including shipping for the amp and he is going to refund $500. That means I currently have $1690 into this amp (assuming he does refund $500 to me). So putting another $1000 plus $225 for a new box puts me at around $2915. While that is a little higher than the average price, this shouldn't be an average amp after having been serviced by Krell and with a fresh cap job.

I also made the decision to have them fix the KBL. The left RCA main output jack has no signal and I know there is nothing wrong with the solder connection between the jack and the wire that connects the jack to the main board as I checked that connection with my trusty Fluke.

Since today is Krell's second day back at work since they lost power from the Hurricane last Sunday, they are way behind on providing RMA numbers from tickets that have been submitted. The service guy told me he is coming in tomorrow to work on catching up with the tickets and he will try and get mine out to me tomorrow. If not, they have to go to the CEDIA show next week in which case I won't have RMA numbers for another week. And then it will be 4-6 weeks before I see the units back.

 

[Gregadd]

To put on my consumer protection hat-has the seller even mentioned a claim to the carrier? IME the first thing they want is to photograph the package to document the damage. Ideally this should be done before shipping. Then you can make a comparison. Returning the package without notifying the carrier is tantamount to a waiver.

Before shipping, have someone verify it is working. Photograph the unit and the package before shipping. Photograph the package and unit upon arrival. If damage is apparent consider not accepting the unit. If damage is apparent upon delivery open the package in front of the delivery man. Notify the carrier and seller of damage in writing.

 

[mep]

To put on my consumer protection hat-has the seller even mentioned a claim to the carrier? IME the first thing they want is to photograph the package to document the damage. Ideally this should be done before shipping. Then you can make a comparison. Returning the package without notifying the carrier is tantamount to a waiver.

Before shipping, have someone verify it is working. Photograph the unit and the package before shipping. Photograph the package and unit upon arrival. If damage is apparent consider not accepting the unit. If damage is apparent upon delivery open the package in front of the delivery man. Notify the carrier and seller of damage in writing.

Apparently people who mention damage by the carrier have never been run through the UPS/FedEx claims wickets. First of all, there was no exterior damage to the shipping box for the KSA-250 which right away absolves them from all culpability/liability. For those of you who don't know, the requirements you have to meet from both FedEx and UPS for *suitable* packaging that with stand the normal wear and tear from shipment are quite high and most factory boxes wouldn't meet their requirements. Both UPS and FedEx first default is that your packaging was inadequate. I once had a claim against UPS for a package that I took to a UPS store and paid them to box and ship the item and they still tried to get out of paying the damage claim! It took 4 weeks of nightly phone calls to finally get them to pay me. And trust me, they try and make the claim process so painful in hope that you will give up.

And so, think twice before you bandy about the "damage from the shipper" cliche and think it's a cake walk to get money back from either UPS or FedEx. Even if they are clearly at fault (and most times it's not cut and dry), you better be prepared to put on your boxing gloves and be ready to go against the equivalent of Mike Tyson for 15 rounds.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Apparently people who mention damage by the carrier have never been run through the UPS/FedEx claims wickets. First of all, there was no exterior damage to the shipping box for the KSA-250 which right away absolves them from all culpability/liability. For those of you who don't know, the requirements you have to meet from both FedEx and UPS for *suitable* packaging that with stand the normal wear and tear from shipment are quite high and most factory boxes wouldn't meet their requirements. Both UPS and FedEx first default is that your packaging was inadequate. I once had a claim against UPS for a package that I took to a UPS store and paid them to box and ship the item and they still tried to get out of paying the damage claim! It took 4 weeks of nightly phone calls to finally get them to pay me. And trust me, they try and make the claim process so painful in hope that you will give up.

And so, think twice before you bandy about the "damage from the shipper" cliche and think it's a cake walk to get money back from either UPS or FedEx. Even if they are clearly at fault (and most times it's not cut and dry), you better be prepared to put on your boxing gloves and be ready to go against the equivalent of Mike Tyson for 15 rounds.

Absolutely but they count on people giving up. That's why they do it.

 

[FrantzM]

Mep

Methinks that you are on the correct path mep .. $2915 including shipping for a back-to-new KSA-250, is an excellent deal. I also maintain that these amps will give a good number of today's amps a run for their money ...

 

[microstrip]

(...) And so, think twice before you bandy about the "damage from the shipper" cliche and think it's a cake walk to get money back from either UPS or FedEx. Even if they are clearly at fault (and most times it's not cut and dry), you better be prepared to put on your boxing gloves and be ready to go against the equivalent of Mike Tyson for 15 rounds.

Specially if the shipped goods are a 20 years old electronic used device shipped in a private deal, many times in an non original box. The record of the client with the shipper is of great importance in these claims - if you are a good regular client they will be more helpful. But occasional clients do not have the same treatment ...

BTW, if the electrolytic capacitors are worn out, shipping such an heavy amplifier can easily trigger a fault.

The most important is that you are getting a good deal with a fantastic amplifier. But now you have to keep the ecology brigade away.

 

[mep]

It was shipped in the original box, but the original box had seen better days. The clamshell packing inside the original box was fine though. I will have to wait until I get the RMA number and the new shipping box sent to me before this process gets started which they said will take 4-6 weeks with their current work load. Until then, I will have to slum it with the Yamaha C2a and the pair of Phase Linear amps. I tried just hooking one Phase Linear amp up last night with a run of Cardas Crosslink ICs to see if I could live with that for awhile. The answer was no. Out came the second Phase Linear amp and a 10' run of MIT S2.3 cables with the magic impedance boxes. As far as this hog pen goes, that was the closest you can come to hog heaven. It was a much better side of the hog pen to be in. Hopefully both Krell pieces functioning correctly will be an entirely better hog pen to play in.

 

[fas42]

Mark, an idle thought: have you done the obvious things like checking that all the fuses in the unit are OK? It's also possible that a heavy knock has dislodged or disturbed a fuse enough to give you grief: it may be worthwhile finding and pulling every fuse, checking and reseating them nice and securely.

Also, is the power supply coming to life?

Frank

 

[mep]

Krell claims there are no fuses used in the KSA-250. There is a 20 circuit breaker in the back and that is it. Once you hit the power button, a relay clicks on and the amp runs through a diagnostic check. If it detects a fault, it powers the amp down. If no fault is detected, a second relay clicks in and the power amp starts up. The first relay clicks, but the second relay never clicks on so the amp never powers up.

 

[fas42]

Just had a quick look at the manual: that second relay in fact links in the speakers to the stabilised amp, rather than switching on power. So the amp IS starting the power supply but doesn't like what it sees at the speaker terminals, or something in the circuitry is not starting or stabilising correctly. It may be worthwhile looking around the speaker connection points for something obvious, and if you want to get your hands a bit dirty, hooking up the Fluke in various places before powering up to see if any voltages come up ...

Frank

 

[mep]

Frank-The amp is going back to the factory. I'm done messing with it. I just hope to have an RA number tomorrow and new boxes coming my way for both the KBL and KSA-250.

 

[mauidan]

It was shipped in the original box, but the original box had seen better days. The clamshell packing inside the original box was fine though. I will have to wait until I get the RMA number and the new shipping box sent to me before this process gets started which they said will take 4-6 weeks with their current work load. Until then, I will have to slum it with the Yamaha C2a and the pair of Phase Linear amps. I tried just hooking one Phase Linear amp up last night with a run of Cardas Crosslink ICs to see if I could live with that for awhile. The answer was no. Out came the second Phase Linear amp and a 10' run of MIT S2.3 cables with the magic impedance boxes. As far as this hog pen goes, that was the closest you can come to hog heaven. It was a much better side of the hog pen to be in. Hopefully both Krell pieces functioning correctly will be an entirely better hog pen to play in.

Sorry, to read about the problem with the Krell.

If the clamshell packing inside the original box is fine, won't it be cheaper and faster to have a local carpenter build you a wooden shipping crate?

 

[mep]

I don't know about cheaper and faster. I suspect Krell can have a box to me by the end of next week if they have it in stock. Also, carpenters are notorious for not following directions and building what they want to build vice what you told them to build. Sometimes I think wood transfers too much shock energy as well. I would rather go with the Krell factory packing.

 

[mauidan]

I've had good luck with equipment shipped in wooden crates or custom flight cases.

I recently helped Nick pack up a GTE Trinity DAC/Amps and TB monos, their custom flight cases make packing and shipping a breeze.

Suggest you avoid UPS/FedEX and use a freight forwarding company that can strap the amp to a pallet.

 

[LL21]

Concur with mep. i usually toss out my boxes, but keep the ones that are well designed for my equipment...CJ, Zanden, Gryphon all have custom foam inserts that fit snugly around the units. Finite Elemente has cases for their products too. Always worth getting the manufacturers stuff (for those of us...or at least me) who dont wish to risk making up the right packing to ensure safe travel. We spend so much on our equipment...to save 30-100+ bucks on packing material or whatever it costs (again, for inexperienced guys like me)...'nuff said.

 

[Steve Williams]

Concur with mep. i usually toss out my boxes, but keep the ones that are well designed for my equipment...CJ, Zanden, Gryphon all have custom foam inserts that fit snugly around the units. Finite Elemente has cases for their products too. Always worth getting the manufacturers stuff (for those of us...or at least me) who dont wish to risk making up the right packing to ensure safe travel. We spend so much on our equipment...to save 30-100+ bucks on packing material or whatever it costs (again, for inexperienced guys like me)...'nuff said.

I have always kept each and everyone one of my boxes for every bit of gear I have ever owned

 

[LL21]

Good to do...fortunately the dealer is keeping/storing my Gryphon and my Wilson Slamms crates for me...

 

[MylesBAstor]

I have always kept each and everyone one of my boxes for every bit of gear I have ever owned

I wish I had the room to store them all Had a storeroom at one time but now that don't have a car and the distance involved means that throw out or return to manufacturer til ready to send equipment back

 

[mep]

Good to do...fortunately the dealer is keeping/storing my Gryphon and my Wilson Slamms crates for me...

So he says. I saw the smoke from that bonfire last night.