Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[morricab]

Brad, the Animas. To say I'm underwhelmed by these doesn't quite cover it. Ked and I just don't see eye to eye on this one, and never will.

I'm also not a massive fan of yr beloved Living Voice Vox Olympian.

Now we have the reverse issue, you and Ked feel I need to go for a spkr that covers classical well (no argument from me), but both Animas and Olympian don't cut it on rock or Electronica, rule themselves out.

Well, to be honest I have a bit of mixed feeling about the Animas but I think it has more to do with the electronics on them. When I heard them with good SET they were pretty darn good...with SS they were not. What did you hear them with?

Where did you hear the Vox Olympian? Did you hear it at Definitive Audio? A show in England? It can do electronica just fine...I heard it do some of the most jaw-dropping Dead Can Dance I ever heard...not pure electronica but beat driven and with electronic elements. IMO, that system with the right electronics transcends normal high end audio...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gavin, that's perfectly ok, never say never on things. I do find it fascinating that Boulder would be volunteered as an alternative for demanding spkrs to maintain a quasi-tube signature.

Certainly when I was giving Apogees serious consideration, Gryphon was the amp I was most interested in. I guess I can add Boulder to that list.

It would be fun to consider Pnoes, but like Cessaro Liszts, the height precludes consideration.

How is your spkrs search coming along? I thought Pnoes and even Apogees were on yr radar.

 

[infinitely baffled]

It's Gavin, yes?

Mos def
Since we're busy discussing our most precious things the least i can do is be human, not an adverb

 

[spiritofmusic]

Animas in the UK on Modwright SS, at Munich on those big Trafomatics tubes. Vox Olympian at Munich.
Brad, even Cessaro sounded underwhelming at Munich, so I'm not going to draw any set conclusions. But I was hoping to be a little more impressed.
Hell, even the shipped in WEs were poor in 2016.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Gavin, that's perfectly ok, never say never on things. I do find it fascinating that Boulder would be volunteered as an alternative for demanding spkrs to maintain a quasi-tube signature.

Certainly when I was giving Apogees serious consideration, Gryphon was the amp I was most interested in. I guess I can add Boulder to that list.

It would be fun to consider Pnoes, but like Cessaro Liszts, the height precludes consideration.

How is your spkrs search coming along? I thought Pnoes and even Apogees were on yr radar.

The former dropped out for manufacturer stated inability to successfully integrate with subwoofers, or to play the sub bass driven music i prefer unassisted.

Apogees, Soundlabs were deemed insufficiently robust for the treatment they would receive here by the chap who would most benefit from my buying them, seeing as he supplies my amplifiers and repairs my speakers.
Since he's the same chap who had to repair other speakers that failed to withstand extended use at my hands, i credit him for knowing what he kens, to use a local colloquilism

I really should update the thread. Basically what happened was my Boulder returned from fettling and sounded so magical, so knuckle - bitingly brilliant that any thoughts of changing speakers became academic......for about a week.

Then it stopped working again, and has just been shipped back.
but i have been promised a loan of a 2160 while it is gone. And since experiencing the uptick from a moderate sprinkling of 2160 components into my 2060
(including main board)
I'm fairly sure that once i experience the full 2160 i will be completely seduced. Which will then suck up any available funds for the forseeable future....and then some.
Plus i decided to build a geodesic dome.
Which will then require a system
Which may involve dipoles
So then we'll be off to the races again.

Or i could build a space big enough for Grande Utopias and swap my Stellas for dipoles in my living room.

So very much a paused quest and thread, the dipole search

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gavin, we can all dream (check out Lorraine Pascale, the BBC chef, and see why I have a smile on my face upon waking each day).

 

[spiritofmusic]

Brad, those Dynamikks look v interesting, I'm presuming you mean the Monitor range 8.10, 12.15 and 15.18. They look similar to the Tobian Sound System horns that appealed to me a while back (until I caught prices North of €100k).

It's critical if I ever go down an alternative to Zu that I lose none of the Zu DNA that I've loved for a decade, namely a real tangible texture and tone density, w real dynamic shove, and the spooky ability for music to be "of a piece" ie truly continuous and holistic.

If these Dynamikks can do this, and add greater smoothness and transparency, and possibly better deep bass capability, and be SET friendly in an 85 sq m/300 cub m space, then I could be v interested, esp if the price doesn't stupidly exceed what the new Zu flagships are likely to retail for.

 

[Blue58]

Brad, those Dynamikks look v interesting, I'm presuming you mean the Monitor range 8.10, 12.15 and 15.18. They look similar to the Tobian Sound System horns that appealed to me a while back (until I caught prices North of €100k).

It's critical if I ever go down an alternative to Zu that I lose none of the Zu DNA that I've loved for a decade, namely a real tangible texture and tone density, w real dynamic shove, and the spooky ability for music to be "of a piece" ie truly continuous and holistic.

If these Dynamikks can do this, and add greater smoothness and transparency, and possibly better deep bass capability, and be SET friendly in an 85 sq m/300 cub m space, then I could be v interested, esp if the price doesn't stupidly exceed what the new Zu flagships are likely to retail for.

Athos look like they may be a good alternative, 12” coax and 2 x 15” drivers down to 29hz. 96dB. Very pretty speakers, wonder how much ?

 

[Sablon Audio]

Pure Audio Project might be a good option

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mark, there are lots of options.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Mark, there are lots of options.

At this price point with an abundance of easy driver and crossover tuning options?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Oh, I just meant that of all the components that might be suggested, the greatest choice, variety, and strength of personal recommendations, is of spkrs.

I'm actually reluctant to move to any spkr that has a complex crossover. Indeed the Zus don't use one at all, just a single cap and resistor in high- and low-pass filters. And I do believe this is an essential part of their magic along with high efficiency and the full range concept.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Gavin, we can all dream (check out Lorraine Pascale, the BBC chef, and see why I have a smile on my face upon waking each day).

Aj Oududu for me...this week anyhoo

 

[spiritofmusic]

Perhaps all a little OT, lol!
Gavin, those Boulders will be on my radar, but only if I go down the Apogee route.

What sort of prices are we talking about? If I indeed ever go SS on ribbons, I'd need some tube flavour in there, and upgrading my Nat Utopia to more bleeding edge Magnetostat line stage would be on the cards.

My only issue w this is a sort of "starting from scratch" fear, it took me a decade to start to go tubes, another five years to go all tubes, a decade thru two changes, major mods, and room/spkr wrangling to wring the most out of Zu, and now I'd be going down a Hell of an interesting rabbit hole, to come out ?WHERE? exactly?

 

[infinitely baffled]

I would say £12 to £15k for a used 2060.

Sounds a lot, but you may then find yourself dispensing with power conditioners etc.
Before the Boulder landed i used to have to turn off various electrical devices around the home to rid myself of the hash and grain of interference. The 2060 just seems immune, sounding so clean and with the natural flow of a babbling brook

£8k for a used Wavac pr-t1, £12k for a new one

I think your last statement is profoundly self aware. Certainty is comforting.
An alternative perspective could be to feel excitement at the prospect of a great leap forward

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gavin, that used price is manageable, esp since I can acquire Graz modded Apogee Duettas for £7-15k, and Scintillas for £15k.

I'm out w conditioners, in w 8kVA balanced power, so that's staying.

My spend on ancillisries is done, thru Burmester 948 conditioner, 3k balanced power, and my current Westwick 8k unit, Oyaides dedicated lines/Fururech duplexes, electrical feed isolated from rest of house to modded consumer unit in loft, multiple upgrades of cables and power cords culminating in current Sablon Reservas/Elites, SR fuses, Stacore and Symposium/Rollerblocks isolation, Entreq grounding. These are all staying, as are my outperforming source components, and tube amps if I stay Zu or go horns.

But Apogees demand bulletproof super stable high current power amps, hence my interest in yr Boulder experience.

As to my "down the rabbit hole" comment, I'm happy to expand.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Don't get me wrong, i have no issue with your tweaks.

Indeed i have learned from them, exhibit A my dive into Entreq. Stacore beckons

My point was that the Boulder is so well designed that it is somewhat insulated from the effects of electrical noise. And adding a Torus power generator considerably worsened things in a way that was immediate and noticeable to all, dealer included
Kind of like trying to do deep breathing exercises with someone sitting on your chest
Another 5 minute audition

Apologies for smug overload. I've basically got to a place where it is very hard to improve, very easy to worsen

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gavin, imperviousness to the outside world is a serious badge of honour for an amp.

A bit like Donald Trump, until he breaks the spell by Tweeting again LOL.

I've always been intrigued by how Boulder is hardly ever discussed these days. Along w Krell, they were the go-to brand for neutral, bulletproof limitless power. But their name nowhere near as visible these days.

 

[KeithR]

How many more sticking plasters can you add to your system to elevate it still further. It would be very interesting to contemplate the system you could have if funds were diverted into simply components and not accessories.

+1, and expensive accessories at that

 

[KeithR]

Now, as to whether Zu is a good choice full stop, and whether the £60k I've spent on cables, supports, balanced power, grounding, plus some misfires on components spends, could have gone on "better" speakers, yes one can make a strong argument on that.

60k? Wow, that's a lot- your speakers are worth like 6k Marc. I'm all for having a great room (and putting $ into it - had 10k myself in that arena w/ Zu), but perhaps you've gone a bit overboard here or you are trying to get something out of Zu that isn't going to happen. ie. you've hit their limit. The entire point of Zu is a value play that can be used in any room (Sean doesn't believe much in room treatment and wants people to enjoy in regular rooms)