Perhaps then you can explain the reason why you cited her article in the first place -- it is not evident from your post, other than your statement that the article was "interesting" -- and we can start from there.
Too Late For Analog?
- Thread starter BFlowers
- Start date
Dear Phelonious PonK: Which/what of what I posted you don't understand:
++++"""""" I have to say that I agree with some of your " general " concepts and opinion about active speakers or tube electronics and that I totally accept the digital alternative but for different reasons that yours.
Hearing music through active speakers could makes a difference but this sole subject IMHO can't makes that one person prefer digital over analog or analog over digital, at least not in so radical way like you states.
I'm worried more on other aspects of your daily system playback:
- you hear a system that's is " severe " limited on the music foundation: bass range. Even that you support digital that suppose goes way down there.
- you heard music mainly by headphones when people like me and like the majority in this forum hear/heard and enjoy music through speakers that permit " live " the music through all our senses/body: just like in a live event.
- for many years you did not hear/heard the analog alternative in your own system in daily or weekly time way.
there are others but these three " subjects " makes and preclude that PP can argue in a non-biased way on the analog/LP whole alternative, don't you think? or at least you can't go on on the subject if you don't go out/emerge of your very especial and specific " island " where only you live and where you have no today analog/LP reference in your " especial " system.
PP IMHO there is almost no possibility that you can understand the analog/LP alternative advantages and with no " understanding " is almost useless any " debate " that has no equilibrum because I understand both alternatives and you understand one of them and " think " ( only think ) that you understand or know analog/LP alternative but this is your mistake: you did not.
Anyway, this comes from other thread and I think is interesting to read it:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...-part-4-page-2 """"+++++++++++++++
you still continue in a " circle navegation " with no real substance or something that really switch a light on the LP/CD subject.
Even you post and agree with your own answer answer to your own arguments in the " debate ":
+++++ " Measurements don't tell the whole story,... " +++++ !!!!!!!!!!!! you say it not me but agree with.
I already give you my time looking to find arguments that can/could help to understand what IMHO is non-sense attitude but the next sentences tell me that is futile to go on " talking with you " on the LP/CD whole subject:
++++++ " and conclude, again, that I don't personally like the sound of a high-end vinyl system as much as I like lossless files into my active system. I could go out and buy a SOTA vinyl rig, listen to it for the next six months, come back here and express the same conclusions.... " +++++
Finally I don't want to leave pass two thoughts where I wonder " many things " ??????.....:::::
first, all that time that like a player you was " receiving/hearing " the straight sound of cymbals very near from you ( you stated this fact. ), SPLs that one way or the other affect the " human ears ".
second, that hearing headphones ( as your main " speaker ". ) and that hearing through headphones at high volume level ( you stated this fact too. ) always goes in severe and non-reversible degradation of what the ears can hear ( frequency response between other things. ).
I don't need and please don't take your time to answer this post: I'm finish/done.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
I'm sorry Raul, I know you asked for no answer, but I have to answer this one because it misrepresents both my position and my experience.
I don't know how I could possibly be more clear than I've been: We disagree. I listened to vinyl for decades. I can listen to it now, and do, fairly often. I like digital better. It's really that simple. If you and Mike want me to buy a vinyl rig and live with it for months to prove something to you, sorry, that's not going to happen. The only thing that is confusing the subject is the objective data. Everything I've seen shows that digital out-performs vinyl on every significant metric. If you have different data, give me a link, but it won't change my preferences.
I also fail to see what is "radical" about this point of view. The differences between DACs, preamps, amps, codecs, cables....the list is long...these things are subtle. Jumping up and down screaming that the differences are night and day, that one is obviously superior to another, that is radical, and it happens on audiophile discussion boards every day. The difference between CD and vinyl is pretty obvious, I fail to see what is radical about having a preference and preferring the one that has the data on its side.
Last but not least, don't be concerned about my "experience." I'm 59 years old and I've been an audiophile for 40 years. I listened to speaker systems for nearly 3 decades before I focused, for a while, on the joys of good headphones. I appreciate your concern, but I know what I'm missing. The same goes for bass extension. I've had big, floor-standing speakers that produced a lot of bass. I know what I'm missing with a set of monitors that are - 6Db at 60Hz, too. I spent years working in studios with very capable active near field and mid field monitor systems. I work in hifi sales now, in my semi-retirement, and hear a variety of big passive speakers and active subwoofers every day. We sell B&W, Vienna Acoustics, REL, Martin Logan, Genelec...few audiophiles have the experience with high-end gear that I have.
The whole exchange is beginning to confuse me, Raul. I know I've stated, unapologetically, that I think digital is superior to vinyl. I do. Why is it "radical" for me to have that opinion? Is there a language barrier here? Perhaps you're having as much trouble understanding me as I am having understanding you.
I appreciate your concern, but don't worry about my hearing, it's fine.
P
Dear Ron: I'm reffering to the thread not the link that still seems to me " interesting ". More on this latter on.
Btw, what really do you think on that link?
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Raul, this link appears to be broken. http://www.audioholics.com/education...-part-4-page-2 I get a 404 error not found.
Dear Les: I hope this help:
http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...ology/dynamic-comparison-of-lps-vs-cds-part-4
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
First, you have a great system that deserves the best media available. Your system would shine with hibitrate audio from SACD and 2496 or better files. It is sad that SACD and DVD-A suffered because of the need for a dedicated player, but with your system that expense is not an issue for you I would not think. I would think the new Sony 5400 SACD player would be right up your alley, or maybe even the new limited edition Marantz K1 Pearl SACD player favoably reviewed by MF in Phile.
I have 3 marginal TTs, but I am 63 and have a collection of vinyl already. I do enjoy it, but for you, you would need to invest in a very good rig ($2K or more) to properly feed the rest of your gear so you could enjoy vinyl. I still buy new and used vinyl and suffer through some occasional clicks and pops. It is part of the fun I guess. I love vinyl and spend at least an hour a day in listening.
If I was starting now, I might still do it, but I really enjoy what hirez has to offer any more. 2496 or better is for me. You have a great DAC.
If you are familiar with www.audiogon.com you might find a buy on a great TT there. I am guessing that you will need a phono preamp and your system will require? a good one to keep up. Boulder has some very, very nice ones, but they can be pricey.
I have 3 marginal TTs, but I am 63 and have a collection of vinyl already. I do enjoy it, but for you, you would need to invest in a very good rig ($2K or more) to properly feed the rest of your gear so you could enjoy vinyl. I still buy new and used vinyl and suffer through some occasional clicks and pops. It is part of the fun I guess. I love vinyl and spend at least an hour a day in listening.
If I was starting now, I might still do it, but I really enjoy what hirez has to offer any more. 2496 or better is for me. You have a great DAC.
If you are familiar with www.audiogon.com you might find a buy on a great TT there. I am guessing that you will need a phono preamp and your system will require? a good one to keep up. Boulder has some very, very nice ones, but they can be pricey.
I was recently presented an opportunity for a good deal on some analog equipment that forced me to revisit this decision. Thus, I looked for this thread and was astounded at how many pages of responses had occurred since I stopped reading it. It took me 3 days (given my limited free time) to get through all of it. Some of it was actually helpful
. I have once again decided not to enter the vinyl realm. I have many reasons for this decision and I would enjoy hearing whether people agree or disagree with my thought process. First of all, my current system is outstanding. It took 4 years of tweaking, headaches, angst and lots of $$$$ to get there, but now I am very pleased. No system is perfect of course, but mine is to a level that I don't have anything I can think of to change.
It's difficult to read audio forums without being inundated by voices proclaiming the superiority of vinyl over digital. In private conversations with people I trust, there is more equivocation. I have to admit to a certain level of curiosity, however. I also believe I miss having something to tinker with (I should have my head examined for even writing that!). I also still enjoy physical media and love the way turntables look. My musical tastes are broad, and thus far have been able to find what I want to listen to on either format.
Now for the cons.
1. Irrespective of the "deal", this project will be expensive.
2. I currently own no LP's.
3. I know little about turntable set-up but have friends available to help that are very knowlegable.
4. I have small kids and limited time (although that didn't stop me before).
5. I am concerned that current music is recorded in digital and then converted to analog (is this universally true?)
6. Most believe that another analog format is superior anyway. R2R has the advantage of being cheaper to get into, but to my knowlege source material is limited to the tape project. If there are others available, please let me know.
7. Finally, high rez digital seems like the future. However, it is still too DIY for my taste. My only (admittedly limited) experience with a few high rez tracks in my room (with borrowed gear) didn't sound better than my current digital. I will ultimately need a new DAC as mine only goes to 24/88.2. Interestingly, I have had many respected players in my system (EMM CDSA, EMM XSD1, Meridian 808.2, Boulder 1021) and none of them betters my Boulder 2020. That surprises me as the 2020 is not new.
Anyway, thanks in advance for your responses.
B Flowers
. I have once again decided not to enter the vinyl realm. I have many reasons for this decision and I would enjoy hearing whether people agree or disagree with my thought process. First of all, my current system is outstanding. It took 4 years of tweaking, headaches, angst and lots of $$$$ to get there, but now I am very pleased. No system is perfect of course, but mine is to a level that I don't have anything I can think of to change. It's difficult to read audio forums without being inundated by voices proclaiming the superiority of vinyl over digital. In private conversations with people I trust, there is more equivocation. I have to admit to a certain level of curiosity, however. I also believe I miss having something to tinker with (I should have my head examined for even writing that!). I also still enjoy physical media and love the way turntables look. My musical tastes are broad, and thus far have been able to find what I want to listen to on either format.
Now for the cons.
1. Irrespective of the "deal", this project will be expensive.
2. I currently own no LP's.
3. I know little about turntable set-up but have friends available to help that are very knowlegable.
4. I have small kids and limited time (although that didn't stop me before).
5. I am concerned that current music is recorded in digital and then converted to analog (is this universally true?)
6. Most believe that another analog format is superior anyway. R2R has the advantage of being cheaper to get into, but to my knowlege source material is limited to the tape project. If there are others available, please let me know.
7. Finally, high rez digital seems like the future. However, it is still too DIY for my taste. My only (admittedly limited) experience with a few high rez tracks in my room (with borrowed gear) didn't sound better than my current digital. I will ultimately need a new DAC as mine only goes to 24/88.2. Interestingly, I have had many respected players in my system (EMM CDSA, EMM XSD1, Meridian 808.2, Boulder 1021) and none of them betters my Boulder 2020. That surprises me as the 2020 is not new.
Anyway, thanks in advance for your responses.
B Flowers
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I do subscribe to the Tape Project. Season 2 is almost complete and they are now taking orders for Season 3. There are also many resources to buy tape, certainly not like vinyl but I am very happy
There is a certain allure to owning one of the exotic TTs, not a six figure one just something really beefy with a fantastic fit and finish. A TT by far has the highest cool factor in audio like owning a Rolex, a Nikon SLR..dare I say a Kimber 1911...real testosterone pumpers. I lust after a really cool TT but just cannot for the life of me justify buying one.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
I'm a known supporter and proponent of vinyl "superiority" as I do prefer listening to vinyl over even high-rez digital. But if I was to start over, I wouldn't for the following reasons:
1. After tinkering with vinyl playback for over 30 years, I'm still learning how to set-up a turntable properly. One example is SRA (stylus rake angle) - I didn't think that it mattered all that much until I read in the Transfiguration Axia thread that there are people who say that it should be critical and others who say it does not matter. What else did I think doesn't matter much that really matters.
2. Because of #1 - there is no consensus as to the "best" way to set up vinyl playback and hence how can I know when I've got it right? I don't want to end up on a merry-go-round I can't get off.
3. Some of the best vinyl recordings I have were originally recorded on digital - Oscar Peterson's Nigerian Marketplace recorded on Sony digital equipment in 1982, the early Telarc recorded on the 24bit 50kHz Soundstream recorders.
4. The nascent availability of good high-rez digital is very exciting and an area to tinker in (building a music server anyone?). I think that the availability 24bit is more important than the availability of higher sample rates (not that higher sample rates are not important). I was told that many of the early digital masters were 24bit/44.1kHz or 24bit/48kHz (is that right, Bruce?) - and I'm hoping that Sony/BMG will release those "soon".
5. Convenience. There's nothing like being to pick from my vast library using my iPad from my listening couch. I'm digitizing my vinyl collection so that I can pick from the analog as well.
6. Finally, I can more easily justify the superiority of digital through specifications and measurements.
But I have an excellent vinyl set-up and won't give it up because I prefer the digitized version of the LP, even when the ADC is as simple as a $200 Emu-0404.
1. After tinkering with vinyl playback for over 30 years, I'm still learning how to set-up a turntable properly. One example is SRA (stylus rake angle) - I didn't think that it mattered all that much until I read in the Transfiguration Axia thread that there are people who say that it should be critical and others who say it does not matter. What else did I think doesn't matter much that really matters.
2. Because of #1 - there is no consensus as to the "best" way to set up vinyl playback and hence how can I know when I've got it right? I don't want to end up on a merry-go-round I can't get off.
3. Some of the best vinyl recordings I have were originally recorded on digital - Oscar Peterson's Nigerian Marketplace recorded on Sony digital equipment in 1982, the early Telarc recorded on the 24bit 50kHz Soundstream recorders.
4. The nascent availability of good high-rez digital is very exciting and an area to tinker in (building a music server anyone?). I think that the availability 24bit is more important than the availability of higher sample rates (not that higher sample rates are not important). I was told that many of the early digital masters were 24bit/44.1kHz or 24bit/48kHz (is that right, Bruce?) - and I'm hoping that Sony/BMG will release those "soon".
5. Convenience. There's nothing like being to pick from my vast library using my iPad from my listening couch. I'm digitizing my vinyl collection so that I can pick from the analog as well.
6. Finally, I can more easily justify the superiority of digital through specifications and measurements.
But I have an excellent vinyl set-up and won't give it up because I prefer the digitized version of the LP, even when the ADC is as simple as a $200 Emu-0404.
BFlowers,
I think there is still one important detail to analyze - what type of music do you listen, how do you listen and what are you looking for in your system?
I have both formats, IMHO no one is better in all the aspects than the other, and the type of music influences the preferences a lot . Would I buy a vinyl system if I did not own one and a large LP collection? Most probably no. But my last investments in vinyl (a Forsell turntable and the Audio Research Reference Phono 2) made the gap between my digital and analog sound wider - vinyl is more like my Tapeproject tapes.
I think there is still one important detail to analyze - what type of music do you listen, how do you listen and what are you looking for in your system?
I have both formats, IMHO no one is better in all the aspects than the other, and the type of music influences the preferences a lot . Would I buy a vinyl system if I did not own one and a large LP collection? Most probably no. But my last investments in vinyl (a Forsell turntable and the Audio Research Reference Phono 2) made the gap between my digital and analog sound wider - vinyl is more like my Tapeproject tapes.
I was going to try and answer the OP's question and by the time I waded through this thread, Gary had eloquently summarized what I wanted to say much better than I ever could.
I love vinyl and not just for what I consider the superior sonics. I love holding an album in my hand and reading the liner notes while listening. Shelby Lynne nailed it when she described her preference for vinyl "You can't roll a joint on a CD case". When I hold a used LP, I wonder about the previous owner and if they liked the music I'm enjoying. Recently I purchased an original Savoy LP by Nat Adderly "That's Nat" pressed in 1955. This LP will likely never be released digitally. The sonics are glorious with a dedicated mono cartridge and the previous owner had placed an interesting newpaper article about Nat into the sleeve.
All that said, vinly is a PITA. You have to find, clean, and store records. Records and cartridges require meticulous care and handling. Despite the sonic rewards (worthwhile IMO, perhaps not for others), setting up a vinyl rig is a bit of a black art and something I am constantly discovering and refining. While many analog recordings will never make it to a digital format, there is more than enough great digital music to keep anyone happy for a lifetime.
Now life would be boring if we didn't take a few leaps of faith, but I am concerned that a half-hearted jump into vinyl will be an unsatisfying, expensive and potentially frustrating excercise for the OP. The investment in time and money could be used on new digital music or to upgrade the existing digital system, which seems satisfying to the OP.
As to the digital versus analog debate, it's tired and boring with the same arguments constantly recycled. Some arguments are insoluable (i.e. less filling or tastes great); this is one of them. To paraphrase Thom Mackris' prescient advice: "The best format is the one that enourages you to purchase and listen to more music."
I love vinyl and not just for what I consider the superior sonics. I love holding an album in my hand and reading the liner notes while listening. Shelby Lynne nailed it when she described her preference for vinyl "You can't roll a joint on a CD case". When I hold a used LP, I wonder about the previous owner and if they liked the music I'm enjoying. Recently I purchased an original Savoy LP by Nat Adderly "That's Nat" pressed in 1955. This LP will likely never be released digitally. The sonics are glorious with a dedicated mono cartridge and the previous owner had placed an interesting newpaper article about Nat into the sleeve.
All that said, vinly is a PITA. You have to find, clean, and store records. Records and cartridges require meticulous care and handling. Despite the sonic rewards (worthwhile IMO, perhaps not for others), setting up a vinyl rig is a bit of a black art and something I am constantly discovering and refining. While many analog recordings will never make it to a digital format, there is more than enough great digital music to keep anyone happy for a lifetime.
Now life would be boring if we didn't take a few leaps of faith, but I am concerned that a half-hearted jump into vinyl will be an unsatisfying, expensive and potentially frustrating excercise for the OP. The investment in time and money could be used on new digital music or to upgrade the existing digital system, which seems satisfying to the OP.
As to the digital versus analog debate, it's tired and boring with the same arguments constantly recycled. Some arguments are insoluable (i.e. less filling or tastes great); this is one of them. To paraphrase Thom Mackris' prescient advice: "The best format is the one that enourages you to purchase and listen to more music."
Last edited:
Hi
Since this thread has been resurrected:
Aside from opinions I am still waiting for a person to provide me with factual evidences of why analog is superior to all digital. I have seen people prefer Tang to Real Orange Juice and that is fine with me it is their preference and it is just a matter of taste ... Now if they were to try to show me by what metrics Tang is superior to Orange Juice ... Well they would have a tall mountain to climb ... Same here with the better digital , I am very willing to grant anyone who wants that CD is not superior to the best analog .. but once you leave CD alone say getting in the 24/88.2 range ... I would like better examples than cold and lack of "pace" or "rhythm" ... I would have also wished that condescension not be used .. (You haven't heard the best analog ) because I have included the fabled TPP tapes and the Rockport Sirius .. incredible sound but nothing that the best digital would not touch or surpass .. .
@Jazzdoc The arguments are not entirely insolvable since there is a criterion: Accuracy is a criterion for which we can devise so.e metrics I would think .. arbitrary waveform comes in, what is the waveform on the output. The closes to the original wins it and on this I am not sure any analog hold a candle to the best digital .. So what else ? Truly what else? What do you think our gear do .. the exact same thing...
With all due respect to Thom Mackris whom I don't even know this
Some people revel in rituals and vinyl forces you into that (clean records, let record dry, clean cartridge, verify VTA, SRA and Stylus force ... check you truntable and prepare your self to go pick up the arm at then end of the record , etc). And that is true there is something tangible in keeping a large record cover in our hands and the record itself ... There could be something almost humane in the noise of LP .. Oh I know thye can be very quiet but please don't tell me they are as dead as digital ... I have had a pretty good analog rig ( Basis Graham and Koetsu or Lyra with Burmester MC amp ) and these were never as noise free as the best CD where music simply comes from ...oh yes I can use it tool since it is part of the Audiophile vocabulary ... " A Black Background" ...
I know there won't be any definitive answers.. I am not certain it is because of a lack of proof but because of when comes the matter of "Audio Preferences", some prefer digital and will claim it superior the same way for some Tang would be "superior" to Orange Juice...
Interesting though that on the matter of Video the issue is virtually settled .. Video requires much more than Audio but I digress
Since this thread has been resurrected:
Aside from opinions I am still waiting for a person to provide me with factual evidences of why analog is superior to all digital. I have seen people prefer Tang to Real Orange Juice and that is fine with me it is their preference and it is just a matter of taste ... Now if they were to try to show me by what metrics Tang is superior to Orange Juice ... Well they would have a tall mountain to climb ... Same here with the better digital , I am very willing to grant anyone who wants that CD is not superior to the best analog .. but once you leave CD alone say getting in the 24/88.2 range ... I would like better examples than cold and lack of "pace" or "rhythm" ... I would have also wished that condescension not be used .. (You haven't heard the best analog ) because I have included the fabled TPP tapes and the Rockport Sirius .. incredible sound but nothing that the best digital would not touch or surpass .. .
@Jazzdoc The arguments are not entirely insolvable since there is a criterion: Accuracy is a criterion for which we can devise so.e metrics I would think .. arbitrary waveform comes in, what is the waveform on the output. The closes to the original wins it and on this I am not sure any analog hold a candle to the best digital .. So what else ? Truly what else? What do you think our gear do .. the exact same thing...
With all due respect to Thom Mackris whom I don't even know this
is not too clear since mp3 has encouraged me to buy and listen to much more music than I thought possible. Mp3 allows me to exlpore music.. I would buy just one cut at iTunes or Amazon listen to it in my car and buy the CD or Hi_Rez download if possible .. i am very clear that mp3 is not superior to analog (in all frankness 320 Kb/s fool me and will fool many analog afficionados of that I am certain) ..
Some people revel in rituals and vinyl forces you into that (clean records, let record dry, clean cartridge, verify VTA, SRA and Stylus force ... check you truntable and prepare your self to go pick up the arm at then end of the record , etc). And that is true there is something tangible in keeping a large record cover in our hands and the record itself ... There could be something almost humane in the noise of LP .. Oh I know thye can be very quiet but please don't tell me they are as dead as digital ... I have had a pretty good analog rig ( Basis Graham and Koetsu or Lyra with Burmester MC amp ) and these were never as noise free as the best CD where music simply comes from ...oh yes I can use it tool since it is part of the Audiophile vocabulary ... " A Black Background"
... I know there won't be any definitive answers.. I am not certain it is because of a lack of proof but because of when comes the matter of "Audio Preferences", some prefer digital and will claim it superior the same way for some Tang would be "superior" to Orange Juice...
Interesting though that on the matter of Video the issue is virtually settled .. Video requires much more than Audio but I digress
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I'd have to disagree with this statement. Many times we have taken the same exact source (either live or master tape) and recorded it in every know digital format all the way to 32/384kHz in PCM and DSD 128fs. Everytime we think the analog tape sounds better and gives a more relaxed, musical feeling. DSD128fs is the closest I've heard to the master tape. If you couldn't quickly A/B the material, it's a toss up, but by being able to do these comparisons and knowing what to listen for, analog master tape wins every time.
Yes Gary, even though they didn't have hi-rez, they at least had the forthought to record in 24-bit.
Bruce
I respect and value your opinion but it is exactly the point I may have been trying to make .. What does "relaxed. musical" feeling means ? And I hope this comes with the utmost respect . I know how difficult it is to convey what one perceive with words. I would grant that the presentation are different ... So one may prefer one over the other ...
I believe you have way to compare output to input and I am close to certain that the output from the better digital is more similar to the input than the analog .. So what gives? I know in all these discussion raising the mere mention of "blind" leads to flames and outright sidetracking of the thread so i will not invoke it , yet .... What was done to eliminate/reduce/blunt the biases in your evaluation of the different sounds?
I respect and value your opinion but it is exactly the point I may have been trying to make .. What does "relaxed. musical" feeling means ? And I hope this comes with the utmost respect . I know how difficult it is to convey what one perceive with words. I would grant that the presentation are different ... So one may prefer one over the other ...
I believe you have way to compare output to input and I am close to certain that the output from the better digital is more similar to the input than the analog .. So what gives? I know in all these discussion raising the mere mention of "blind" leads to flames and outright sidetracking of the thread so i will not invoke it , yet .... What was done to eliminate/reduce/blunt the biases in your evaluation of the different sounds?
FrantzM,
Although I think this metaphors of Tang and Real Orange Juice are funny, but can not be applied to the vinyl - CD debate, I am curious : which is vinyl and which is CD?
BTW, when I give my two cents worth opinions on these matters I only address mainly the two formats above - the offer of recordings in all others is too low to interest me now. Small niches, such as multichannel SACDs, reel to reel tapes or HDTracks are mostly enjoyable audiophile activity for me - happily some of them have very good music.
Although I think this metaphors of Tang and Real Orange Juice are funny, but can not be applied to the vinyl - CD debate, I am curious : which is vinyl and which is CD?
BTW, when I give my two cents worth opinions on these matters I only address mainly the two formats above - the offer of recordings in all others is too low to interest me now. Small niches, such as multichannel SACDs, reel to reel tapes or HDTracks are mostly enjoyable audiophile activity for me - happily some of them have very good music.
Tony Faulkner, a well known sound engineer specializing in classical music recording, openly expressed the same opinion about analog tape, even compared with the live feed :
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5728089-post53.html
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