Bryston-A Sleeping Giant

[Bruce B]

Wow, a predominantly positive Bryston thread on an audiophile site! Although it is a very successful company, I have always found more haters than lovers of this brand in the audiophile world.

Well they've come a long way in the past few years. I had one years back and it didn't sound good at all. I replaced it with a Classe' and kinda' wrote them off. The newer ones are pretty damn good. I've been impressed.

 

[caesar]

Well they've come a long way in the past few years. I had one years back and it didn't sound good at all. I replaced it with a Classe' and kinda' wrote them off. The newer ones are pretty damn good. I've been impressed.

I still have an old amp somewhere in my hoard of stuff. I always found their amps to be great starter stuff in this hobby, especially for tough to drive speakers.

And then there was HP's review of the 28's a few years ago...

 

[Mobiusman]

I have owned many amps and have heard most of the ones considered to be the best in numerous systems and I can say without any hesitation that the new Bryston (latest version with all of the latest mods) are anything but starter amps. As HP has said on numerous occasion, and BTW he also says make sure that you have heard the amps with the latest mods, they are impressive compared to any solid state amp regardless of price, and when price considered, there is simply no contest for the sound AND the power. He even goes so far as to say that they may as good as any amp, tube or SS, which is amazing considering he is a tube fan.

 

[mep]

I hear everything everyone is saying here. I assume that Bryston amps have always had impeccable measurements. What has changed that now people think that Bryston is building good sounding amps compared to their amps of yesteryear? Just playing the measurements devil's advocate?

 

[joeinid]

Hi,

I'm entertaining the idea of getting a pair of new Bryston SST squared amps. I'd like to use a tube preamp and currently have a McIntosh C2300. Anyone using a tube preamp with their Brystons? I did not like the OLD Brystons and have not heard the new squared series. Are the new series more on the warmer side of neutral? My stereo is on a lot and want a good, musical solid state amp. I'm also thinking about getting the new McIntosh MC452 stereo or MC601 mono blocks or even waiting until next year and save up for a Burmester 911 mk3 or Dartzeel stereo amp. No one local has Brystons I can hear.

Some background: I had current Spectrons mono blocks and wasn't crazy about them so I sold them. I had a McIntosh MC402, liked it, but sold it with the intention of getting a newer model (MC452 or Mc601's). Now that I'm in the hunt again, I'd like to explore what's out there and make a more informed choice.

Thanks!

Joe

 

[microstrip]

Hi,

I'm entertaining the idea of getting a pair of new Bryston SST squared amps. I'd like to use a tube preamp and currently have a McIntosh C2300. Anyone using a tube preamp with their Brystons?
Joe

Please check if your C2300 can drive the new Bryston's properly - they have 20kohm XLR input impedance. Many tube preamplifiers do not like such low impedances. The RCA impdedance is 50 kohm, if you accept to use it unbalanced.

A friend of mine could not use is C2200 with a similar impedance amplifier.

 

[joeinid]

Please check if your C2300 can drive the new Bryston's properly - they have 20kohm XLR input impedance. Many tube preamplifiers do not like such low impedances. The RCA impdedance is 50 kohm, if you accept to use it unbalanced.

A friend of mine could not use is C2200 with a similar impedance amplifier.

Hi microstrip,

The OUTPUT IMPEDANCE of my C2300 is 250 ohms, but I neglected to mention I plan on using a McIntosh MEN220 which has an OUTPUT IMPEDANCE of 50 ohms. I guess lower is better? I don't understand what the ratio should be and don't fully understand impedance issues. Does the 50 ohm output impedance help my situation?

Thanks!

Joe

 

[microstrip]

Hi microstrip,

The OUTPUT IMPEDANCE of my C2300 is 250 ohms, but I neglected to mention I plan on using a McIntosh MEN220 which has an OUTPUT IMPEDANCE of 50 ohms. I guess lower is better? I don't understand what the ratio should be and don't fully understand impedance issues. Does the 50 ohm output impedance help my situation?

Thanks!

Joe

The C2300 is a tube preamplifier. Output impedance is usually measured at 1000 Hz, but most tube preamplifiers have an output coupling capacitor to block DC and the impedance is much higher at very low frequencies. I have no experience with the McIntosh MEN220, but if it has a solid state DC coupled output with 50 ohm impedance as it seems from the specifications, it will drive any SST2 Bryston amplifier.

 

[joeinid]

Thanks microstrip, I plan on listening to a pair if I can find them anywhere locally. Since the MEN220 is solid state, I figured I'd have less trouble.

Joe

 

[Bjorn]

Are there anyone who has compared Bryston amps to a good class D amp? By good class D I'm thinking Hypex HG series, ICEpower ASX2 or Chapter Audio. There are probably other nice class D amps as well, but I don't consider the ones using ICEpower ASP modules to be in that category.
The only amp I would consider other then Bryston would be class D or class A if don't need much watt.

 

[amirm]

I have tested the ICEpower500A against linear amps (Anthem, Mark Levinson and Proceed) and it doesn't hold a candle to any of them. It is harsher sounding although very cool running and powerful. Of note, it doesn't meet the specs that B&O advertises on S/N as ours was quite noisy.

I don't know how the A series compares to ASX2 series. The B&O web site is a mess when it comes to comparative measurements of the two versions. Looking at the performance graph, it does show increased distortion at higher frequencies:

They stop at 6.7 KHz. Wonder what the graph would look like at 12 KHz+

 

[Bjorn]

I have tested the ICEpower500A against linear amps (Anthem, Mark Levinson and Proceed) and it doesn't hold a candle to any of them.

Yes. That's not a very good class D module. Hypex HG is another ballpark. The performance of ICE ASX2 is somewhere between these two.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Anyone have a clue how the Equibit class D amps used by Lyngdorf compare?

Tim

 

[RUR]

Anyone have a clue how the Equibit class D amps used by Lyngdorf compare?

Tim

Best source I've found is Miller Audio. Measurements for the TDAI 2200 may be found in the links for March 2007. You'll need a password, first.

 

[KeithR]

Thanks microstrip, I plan on listening to a pair if I can find them anywhere locally. Since the MEN220 is solid state, I figured I'd have less trouble.

Joe

Joe- how do you like your C2300? i'm looking at picking a demo unit up at my dealer to go with my 601s.

to all---McIntosh amps have really low input impedance, so in theory their preamps should work with any amp on the market.

 

[mep]

Joe- how do you like your C2300? i'm looking at picking a demo unit up at my dealer to go with my 601s.

to all---McIntosh amps have really low input impedance, so in theory their preamps should work with any amp on the market.

I'm not Joe, but I can tell you that I was not a fan of the C2300. I am a fan of tube preamps, but not this tube preamp. If I didn't know the C2300 had six 12AX7 tubes I would have sworn it was a SS preamp. Some might say that's a good thing. If it is, then go buy a SS preamp so you don't have to care and feed for six 12AX7 tubes. I think the line stage sounds better than the phono stage. I couldn't tolerate the phono stage at all. The only way I could make it sound half-way decent was to use my SA-2 into the MM input. The C2300 is chock-a-block full of bells and whistles and is Swiss Army knife-like, but I didn't feel like it did anything particularly well. I wouldn't buy it unless you had return privileges in case it isn't your cup of sonic tea either.

The other thing is the looks. At first glance it is sort of cool in a garish sort of way. But the more you look at it, you start to notice how many different colors are on the face plate. There are different shades of blues and greens that don't match. And then there is the "oh look, it has tubes" window on the top of the preamp. I don't think that was a form-follows-function deal there.

Other than that, I really liked the C2300.

 

[KeithR]

Thanks Mep---did you use NOS tubes?

seems a lot of folks use reissued Genelex gold lions, which i have indeed heard are SS like in nature. The problem with Mac amps is few tube preamps are good matches---what did you end up using?

on the looks, i agree---don't like the meters on Mac preamps in general either. the C48 looks perfect to me---but I can't have an SS preamp.

 

[joeinid]

Joe- how do you like your C2300? i'm looking at picking a demo unit up at my dealer to go with my 601s.

to all---McIntosh amps have really low input impedance, so in theory their preamps should work with any amp on the market.

I like my C2300 no matter what anyone else says. I do not use the phono stage at all. The most important thing is to roll the tubes. Right now I am using Gold Lions, only in the line stage and it sounds really nice. Slightly bigger soundstage, vocals a little sweeter and slightly lower noise floor. The preamp itself takes a long time to break in and smooth out. I also have some Psvane and NOS Mullards waiting in the wings that I plan on trying. ANY tube is probably better than the stock tubes. If I had to do it over, I would go for the fully balanced C500T, if money was not a problem. But I really like the C2300 which is not fully balanced but has XLR outs. It's convenient having the tone controls and all options via the remote control. My meters are off almost all the time, no biggie. It remembers the settings for the selected input as far as tone, balance, volume, etc. for each input. I bought it thinking at some point they might update the C500/C1000 and I'd jump on that when they do. My system is on 12-16 hours a day playing music and the controls and switches feel great, smooth positive feedback when changing settings. The new C50/C48 has better tone control settings and a built in DAC but no tubes. If I think of more, I'll add it later. All in all, happy with it. Probably not as good a match with the Bryston amps but I'm still thinking about getting the MC601's or MC2301's.

Joe

 

[joeinid]

PS, A lot of people say the McIntosh tube preamps sound like solid state preamps and the solid state preamps sound like tube preamps. I hope that made sense.

Joe

 

[Mobiusman]

Joe,

I use a BAT VK 32 SE all tube preamp with the Bryston and the sound is the best I have ever had. Over the years I have tried many combinations of preamps and power amps to try to find what I like the best and what is the easiest to live with. I am of the position that the best sound is what the listener likes the best and not what measures the best. For me, I always come back to a mixture of tube and solid state and have ultimately settled on tube preamp and solid state amp rather than solid sate preamp and tube amps because I like the authority and control that I get from a ss amp, the life-like quality I get from feeding it with it with a tube preamp and I love not having to deal with output tubes (changing them and their heat). You are more than welcome to drop by my place if you wish to hear the combo.