What do we expect at the show?

[DaveyF]

Having just returned from Newport, I realized again the difficulty that many exhibitor's have/had with their room ( allotted space?). However, I began to question how much we as the consumer/ show goer expect of the exhibitor. After all, the exhibitor has to deal with numerous issues that are possibly out of their control...such as a) the power delivery etc., b) noise from other rooms and the public/attendees and c) numerous other factors. On the other hand, as was demonstrated to me in one of the 'BIG" rooms at this show, other factors can be in play, such as the person doing the demo was a little 'overwhelmed' by the gear and couldn't operate the TT. In this instance a Kronos ( which might look a little intimidating, I guess). BUT, I do feel that if an exhibitor is trying to truly demo the gear to sound its best to their potential future customer, then a complete and thorough understanding of said gear should be required. Plus, I believe that a well thought out and appropriate system that is designed for the room space be displayed, vs a thrown together "top-of-line" lash up that probably is inappropriate for the allotted space. Lastly, perhaps a selection of music ( software) that is likely to show off the system in its best light. Is this unreasonable?

To top of my experience at Newport, I visited the AudioNote room...where I usually experience sub-par sound...at a more than over the top price. This year, the sound was not sub-par...although no great shakes either- and the gear was middle priced. Except here's the interesting thing....upon discussing the improvement in sound with the exhibitor...who tells me this is their entry level system....I am also told that the system was designed NOT to image and portray depth in any way! So, I guess we have to ask...what do we expect from a show system in a hotel room?

 

[JackD201]

I'm pretty sure the guy knew how to play a record. Whether he was brave enough, or given clearance to use a cartridge probably more expensive than his car is another matter altogether.

How about we flip the question on its head? What do exhibitors expect from show goers? Those of us who have been doing shows for years know that no matter what we do, divergence of preference being what it is, we will never please everybody. Just imagine what percentage of show goers have the concept of "good" or "great" framed by what they have at home. Systems they have had a whole lot of time to manipulate to suit their own personal tastes. I for one try not to expect anything. I do hope for two things. The first being that the show goers aren't all nitpicketty grumposaurs and the second that nobody breaks anything. It's a show people, it's supposed to be FUN!

 

[Bruce B]

Well if there are good sounds at the show, then we must believe the exhibitor took the time to set up the system properly. Everyone is dealt the same hand and there is a level playing field. Most of these exhibitors have had the same rooms year after year and they know the strengths/weaknesses. I'd place the blame solely on the exhibitor. If they can't improve from year to year and overcome the known problems they're faced with, then I have no use for them.
How many years has the Q7 been in that back room and year after year the sound still sucks!

 

[DaveyF]

Well if there are good sounds at the show, then we must believe the exhibitor took the time to set up the system properly. Everyone is dealt the same hand and there is a level playing field. Most of these exhibitors have had the same rooms year after year and they know the strengths/weaknesses. I'd place the blame solely on the exhibitor. If they can't improve from year to year and overcome the known problems they're faced with, then I have no use for them.
How many years has the Q7 been in that back room and year after year the sound still sucks!

Here's the interesting thing Bruce...while you and I might think that the sound sucks, these guys don't necessarily agree with that. For example, my experience in the AudioNote room...the rep argued with me with me that in his opinion, the system should NOT display depth or for that matter imaging. He believed that there is no depth portrayed in 'live' music...and was adamant in the belief that the system sounded great without the ability to truly image or portray any depth of field!
Needless to say, I didn't stay too long in that room

 

[MylesBAstor]

Well if there are good sounds at the show, then we must believe the exhibitor took the time to set up the system properly. Everyone is dealt the same hand and there is a level playing field. Most of these exhibitors have had the same rooms year after year and they know the strengths/weaknesses. I'd place the blame solely on the exhibitor. If they can't improve from year to year and overcome the known problems they're faced with, then I have no use for them.
How many years has the Q7 been in that back room and year after year the sound still sucks!

I'm sorry but to think that a Q7 or for that matter an XLF or any other large SOTA speaker will work successfully in a hotel room is foolhardy. With shitrock walls, crappy AC, etc.? These are speakers that will bring out the worst of any room they are situated in. In some but obviously not all ways, speakers that are bass shy with the proper material are a better bet to sound good at a show.

And so much of one's opinion depends upon the source material and where you sit in these rooms. One chair makes all the difference in the world. Exhibitors basically have a choice of spreading marginal sound over the room or good sound for a one or two seats. Also, unless you bring and play something you are familiar with, how do you know what you're listening to?

 

[Jeff Fritz]

One of the big issues for me is the use of these hotels:

http://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...problems-with-high-end-audio-s-self-promotion

Surely we (North America) can do better.

 

[MylesBAstor]

One of the big issues for me is the use of these hotels:

http://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...problems-with-high-end-audio-s-self-promotion

Surely we (North America) can do better.

I think the other thing that enters into the equation when selecting a show venue that isn't mentioned is cost, in particular labor costs. But I think people have been asking the same questions for a long time. At one time, Jerry Gladstein and a few others proposed doing a "limited" scale show at a smaller venue with only invited manufacturers bringing the best products. It would cost $200/person but the idea was the invited exhibitors would put on the best sound and show possible. To be honest, there's products at these shows that even if they sounded the best in the world, no one would buy them because they're so fugly.

But probably the biggest question is why the high-end manufacturers can't get together on their own and produce a better show? Certainly better than CES.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I don't understand why everyone has to critique these shows and venues so harshly. These shows are to show off products so people can see and hear their sonic potentials. I ask each and every naysayer to take their systems to a local hotel room set it up in one day and then invite the local audio society over and have them judge the system.

I disagree with Myles, I think most all of the shows are really good given the venues. I like the CES venue for what it is. The greatest show, the Munich show has the most problematic rooms but exhibitors just deal with it. Isn't this supposed to be about having fun?

I ask Jeff (above post) where he would suggest having a show? What hotel?

I took a tour of the new T.H.E. Show venue yesterday and it may be the best venue yet (in the US) I've seen for a large show. I guarantee you, it will be criticized on the boards next year.

Why does everyone look at the glass half empty?

 

[MylesBAstor]

I don't understand why everyone has to critique these shows and venues so harshly. These shows are to show off products so people can see and hear their sonic potentials. I ask each and every naysayer to take their systems to a local hotel room set it up in one day and then invite the local audio society over and have them judge the system.

I disagree with Myles, I think most all of the shows are really good given the venues. I like the CES venue for what it is. The greatest show, the Munich show has the most problematic rooms but exhibitors just deal with it. Isn't this supposed to be about having fun?

I ask Jeff (above post) where he would suggest having a show? What hotel?

I took a tour of the new T.H.E. Show venue yesterday and it may be the best venue yet (in the US) I've seen for a large show. I guarantee you, it will be criticized on the boards next year.

Why does everyone look at the glass half empty?

I really don't think we necessarily disagree. I'm just trying to point to those who criticize the sound at shows the sizable issues and hurdles facing an exhibitor trying to set up a system up in a hotel room.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

One of the big issues for me is the use of these hotels:

http://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...problems-with-high-end-audio-s-self-promotion

Surely we (North America) can do better.

Jeff,

I have to respectfully disagree about HiFi Deluxe, it has the some of the best rooms of any hotel in the world for a HiFi show. We covered every room and the sonics where very good. Each room was filled with attendees. It's a nice contrast to the big show.

http://www.avshowrooms.com/HiFi_Deluxe_2014.html

Get a good pair of headphone and watch the sixth video down... you'll be amazed
http://www.avshowrooms.com/HiFi_Deluxe_Vids_1.html

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Isn't this supposed to be about having fun?

I ask Jeff (above post) where he would suggest having a show? What hotel?

Why does everyone look at the glass half empty?

For the manufacturers that invest tens of thousands of dollars to exhibit at these shows, no, it is not about having "fun." It is, ultimately, about attracting buyers for their products.

My article states clearly that I am not suggesting a hotel, but venues more like MOC in Germany.

Munich is the half-full part. Is has grown substantially because they are putting on a better show in a better venue. Their success speaks volumes.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

For the manufacturers that invest tens of thousands of dollars to exhibit at these shows, no, it is not about having "fun." It is, ultimately, about attracting buyers for their products.

My article states clearly that I am not suggesting a hotel, but venues more like MOC in Germany.

Munich is the half-full part. Is has grown substantially because they are putting on a better show in a better venue. Their success speaks volumes.

Jeff, I ask again, where would you have a show in North America?

I think we need only one MOC in my opinion. It's the greatest show on earth. Why do we need a duplicate? Of course, shows are for commerce. Though I ask... how many people here on this board go to a show to buy a product? The shows are another data point for product acquisition, as is this board, your Ezine, the mags and our vids.

BTW, all of the Munich show's recent growth has been with companies outside of Germany and Europe. It's CES take away business from North American companies, says the organizers.

 

[Bruce B]

I'm sorry but to think that a Q7 or for that matter an XLF or any other large SOTA speaker will work successfully in a hotel room is foolhardy. With shitrock walls, crappy AC, etc.? These are speakers that will bring out the worst of any room they are situated in. In some but obviously not all ways, speakers that are bass shy with the proper material are a better bet to sound good at a show.

I have to disagree Myles. I've heard large SOTA speakers at shows sound good. My statement remains the same.

 

[RogerD]

To top of my experience at Newport, I visited the AudioNote room...where I usually experience sub-par sound...at a more than over the top price. This year, the sound was not sub-par...although no great shakes either- and the gear was middle priced. Except here's the interesting thing....upon discussing the improvement in sound with the exhibitor...who tells me this is their entry level system....I am also told that the system was designed NOT to image and portray depth in any way! So, I guess we have to ask...what do we expect from a show system in a hotel room?

Here's the interesting thing Bruce...while you and I might think that the sound sucks, these guys don't necessarily agree with that. For example, my experience in the AudioNote room...the rep argued with me with me that in his opinion, the system should NOT display depth or for that matter imaging. He believed that there is no depth portrayed in 'live' music...and was adamant in the belief that the system sounded great without the ability to truly image or portray any depth of field!
Needless to say, I didn't stay too long in that room

Now that is funny.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I have to disagree Myles. I've heard large SOTA speakers at shows sound good. My statement remains the same.

In the low frequencies? That alone have yet to hear I always put a Kingsway Hall filter in.

 

[Rhapsody]

Having just returned from Newport, I realized again the difficulty that many exhibitor's have/had with their room ( allotted space?). However, I began to question how much we as the consumer/ show goer expect of the exhibitor. After all, the exhibitor has to deal with numerous issues that are possibly out of their control...such as a) the power delivery etc., b) noise from other rooms and the public/attendees and c) numerous other factors. On the other hand, as was demonstrated to me in one of the 'BIG" rooms at this show, other factors can be in play, such as the person doing the demo was a little 'overwhelmed' by the gear and couldn't operate the TT. In this instance a Kronos ( which might look a little intimidating, I guess). BUT, I do feel that if an exhibitor is trying to truly demo the gear to sound its best to their potential future customer, then a complete and thorough understanding of said gear should be required. Plus, I believe that a well thought out and appropriate system that is designed for the room space be displayed, vs a thrown together "top-of-line" lash up that probably is inappropriate for the allotted space. Lastly, perhaps a selection of music ( software) that is likely to show off the system in its best light. Is this unreasonable?

To top of my experience at Newport, I visited the AudioNote room...where I usually experience sub-par sound...at a more than over the top price. This year, the sound was not sub-par...although no great shakes either- and the gear was middle priced. Except here's the interesting thing....upon discussing the improvement in sound with the exhibitor...who tells me this is their entry level system....I am also told that the system was designed NOT to image and portray depth in any way! So, I guess we have to ask...what do we expect from a show system in a hotel room?

To make sure that everyone is clear regarding the AudioNote comments in this post, it must be regarding AudioNote UK. Audio Note Japan/Kondo was not present at this show.

 

[KeithR]

I think if you eliminated all the ballroom displays, NA shows would be much better. If you notice in my review, I didn't blurb about a thing in those rooms as they are too compromised at 60' wide, etc. They can't pressurize, so what's the point?

 

[rockitman]

I really don't think we necessarily disagree. I'm just trying to point to those who criticize the sound at shows the sizable issues and hurdles facing an exhibitor trying to set up a system up in a hotel room.

It's taken me close to a year with my current system to have it set up right. I don't care how much you spend on a system. It will take months to reach it's full potential...tweaking the room, components and cables, isolation, ect.

 

[Bruce B]

I think if you eliminated all the ballroom displays, NA shows would be much better. If you notice in my review, I didn't blurb about a thing in those rooms as they are too compromised at 60' wide, etc. They can't pressurize, so what's the point?

I think the mbl X-treme's and the Focal Grand Utopia's certainly filled the space quite nicely!

 

[JackD201]

I'm with Peter. Go to a show with an open mind and yes Miles, with a filter and listen for potential. If you want to really see what a dealer can do, visit their main showroom and critique to your hearts content.