Apple iPhone 5 vs Samsung G/S4
- Thread starter Ki Choi
- Start date
You can also get the same for Android Here is an example: https://play.google.com/store/apps/...t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImh5cGVyZmluZS5oZnR1bmVzIl0.
In a way you are walking into Keith's argument though. The "remote" protocol was created by Apple but as usual, they kept it closed to themselves. But what goes on the wire can be traced and traced it was. The protocol reverse engineered and now you can use your iPad's Remote app to control non-iTunes apps as much as the other way around per above.
My previous employer was accused of being evil but in many cases it published protocols for what it did and put its technology into standards. That is so opposite of Apple culture. It is so opposite because the fans, the customers, the press (at least until recently), paid them to be that way. They cheered them to be that way. Tim is very right: if you live in the Apple apps, the iOS devices fit uniquely there. But why is it good for consumers that to have that good life, you must be the customer of one company and only one company? Nothing wrong with enjoying Apple products. But nothing about their business policies can be defended in my opinion because they are anti-consumer and pro-Apple. They just are.
But nothing about their business policies can be defended in my opinion because they are anti-consumer and pro-Apple. They just are.
And of course, you have ZERO bias and are perfectly neutral in this matter?
Of course they were made to do that and somehow that's a bad thing to some. Seamless/painless = exclusive/closed.
From a consumer standpoint, I've never been clear what I'm closed out from that's supposed to be meaningful. Getting closed out, if I understand correctly, may be having to switch from the Remote app to iPeng to control my Squeezeboxes (which access all my iTunes music anyway). That's a brutal inconvenience. The gripe is that Remote doesnt control everything? Thru the JRiver app I can access anything and send it to virtually any device from my iPad or iPhone. Closed out to me would be not allowing this app in iOS.
What is the cost of this seamlessness (which I highly value). Can someone explain what I'm closed out of? This is what I'm apparently an idiot about in that I don't understand.
My previous employer was accused of being evil but in many cases it published protocols for what it did and put its technology into standards. That is so opposite of Apple culture. It is so opposite because the fans, the customers, the press (at least until recently), paid them to be that way. They cheered them to be that way. Tim is very right: if you live in the Apple apps, the iOS devices fit uniquely there. But why is it good for consumers that to have that good life, you must be the customer of one company and only one company? Nothing wrong with enjoying Apple products. But nothing about their business policies can be defended in my opinion because they are anti-consumer and pro-Apple. They just are.
And that's where you're wrong. There's nothing wrong about creating your own protocols, so your apps can talk to each other, or be remote controlled. Apple is under no obligation to divulge this protocol. Now, people reverse engineered it, and what did Apple do? Nothing
They just let it be. Hack away. Now I'm sure you'll find an argument to defend Google of creating a whole messaging infrastructure on top of XMPP, and then, once it's solid and established, removing external XMPP support, so third party apps won't be able to talk to your messaging platform, but only through your proprietary stuff.
Apple's business practices are just what they are: business. They believe in owning the "whole widget", not only because it might give them more money, but it'll give them more control, and, in the end, provide better products. Think about it: did Apple *really* need to create its own CPU? Or maps app? Of course not. But once bitten by a third party in these segments, they move in that area, in order to keep providing a good experience to the end user. Google wanted to snoop on iOS users, through the Maps app (among others), and Apple wouldn't allow them.
Granted, the maps thing was less than successful
by their own admission, but the net result is an improvement, since Google moved in and provided iOS users with an updated maps application, which they refused to do while the Maps app was co-developed with Apple.alexandre
I'm not sure how Apples penchant for a closed Architecture is such a bad thing. I would think that the Rare virus or hack is not just a simple coincident.
Think about it. Did Apple *really* need to create a proprietary connector for the original iPod and all iOS devices up to the iP4S? What motivation did they have for introducing the Lightning connector with the iP5, with the proprietary chip built-in to the cable, apart from extracting even more money from Apple zealots?
BTW Steve, I had another look at my wife's iP5. No way to change the default apps. Double tap the home button, and you get Siri. Ask Siri to navigate you somewhere, and it opens in Apple maps. The thing can not last her a full day at work without having to be plugged in to a charger mid-day.
I am sure we all suffer from bias in such a discussion lest you tell me that no one is defending Apple because they like them and their products
.If you are referring to my prior employment by Microsoft, I left the company at the end of 2007. What would motivate me to defend them this way? I am typing this on Google Chrome, and own the Android phone. As an ex-Microsoft employee, I could have gotten my last phone for free if I bought a Windows phone. Instead, I spent $200 more and got the Android HTC. To the extent I pay to buy a competing product to my ex-employer, should tell you that I am judging this field by what I think of technology and not where I worked five years ago.
Am I without bias? No. I have the bias we are talking about. If Apple and Android products were identical in every respect, I would opt for Android because I don't want to reward Apple to have a stronger hold on us. For years, I wanted to use an iPod but because Apple would refuse to let it work with anything other than itunes, I could not. I would have had to change my media player, which didn't support my massive library of compressed format. Apple insisted on recompressing them or me re-ripping them. This, despite the fact that the format my music was in, was free to use on Windows. Indeed, Apple used that very library and capability to convert my music to another compressed format! But would refuse to play it as is. What about that stance was pro-consumer I ask? Sure, if your experience with digital media started with Apple, iTunes, etc. none of this matters. But since you went after my history and relationship with Apple, then you drag such arguments in
.If I put my business hat on, I get to admire all that Apple has done to keep competition away. So none of this is about why they are doing this. It is about why we don't seem to accept the cost of admiring them as consumers. I get that we didn't or couldn't do this when competing devices were so bad. My first Android phone was unusable. It could not even run email for a day or two without crashing. Bugs were everywhere. An update came and fixed that but broke others. If Verizon had the iPhone I would have gone with it then and I would not be here talking about Android
. But another one of those anti-consumer things, one carrier only exclusively, forced me to wait. Then the next Android release came, the bugs went away and I became an adopter of Android. The phone ran a bit slow but I had so many choices for upgrade. And I upgraded to a larger screen phone and for those of you who wonder why, it is the same as you wondering why we don't love Apple! It is like having a DVR. Unless you have one, you have no first hand experience of why it is good. 1080p image of this browser is legible without zooming! Go and play with these larger Android phone and then do the same with your iPhone. You will see why Apple will copy the Android lead in every way as they have already. It is goodness and no amount of religion about it will do anything.So biased? Yes, biased I am. I have been in technology filed for 40 years. I have worked for a company that was named to be a monopolist and anti-competitive. I have heard the government's arguments on that front, and that of ours. All of this gives me a perspective on the matter that hopefully is useful to hear
. Nothing I say is offered with zero bias, much less in capital letters. If we want to post commercials, this is the one we need to post:
In its entire history, I don't think Microsoft has had one cool commercial. But this one comes close. Cut out the bit about Nokia phone and would be one hell of a commercial, describing the reality of what we are doing here.
In its entire history, I don't think Microsoft has had one cool commercial. But this one comes close. Cut out the bit about Nokia phone and would be one hell of a commercial, describing the reality of what we are doing here.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
I think all of this is getting silly
TBH Mark, I didn't have heart burn over the commercial you showed nor do I with the one Amir just showed. In fact I think the one Amir showed is the most clever of the bunch
TBH Mark, I didn't have heart burn over the commercial you showed nor do I with the one Amir just showed. In fact I think the one Amir showed is the most clever of the bunch
Steve-I don't have any heartburn with the Samsung commercial (or Amir's) either. Apparently it struck a nerve with some men and there is some controversy over it now. Since this thread started out as Samsung vs. iPhone which devolved into Keith calling all iPhone owners idiots, I just found it ironic that now we have a Samsung commercial that some men find highly insulting.
No matter how mad everyone is getting here, I learned enough and now adequate data points to select my next phone.
Amir said:
And now you are making my argument, the one I use every time the "closed system" nonsense comes up. I haven't run into a single closed door in the Apple system I haven't been able to open with a quick software download. I paid $35-40 a couple of times, most were free. The only drawback is that when you're using software to connect non-Apple devices/software into the Apple system, sometimes it is not as easy and intuitive. Sometimes its even as difficult as making stuff work in Windows. And that's why I laugh when the whole closed argument comes up: A) It's not hard to open, it's just really, really easy when you don't bother. B) While I'll admit that Windows has gotten a lot better, for years that system was effectively closed to everyone but computer literates, while Apple was making things easier and easier and more and more intuitive for the rest of us. So now, even though Windows has gotten much better, Apple is the system known to just do what it's supposed to do, for many millions of users.
Basic brand-building stuff. The brand isn't built on being the fastest, the most advanced or the most flexible; it is built, very well, on being intuitive, and being an integrated system of products that all work together seamlessly. At this point, it doesn't really matter if Windows is as stable and nearly as intuitive as OSX. It wouldn't really even matter if they had managed to make all the 3rd party products in the world work with Windows as well as an iPhone works with an Airport express, many will assume Windows is going to be a PIA for civilians to operate, because it has a long history of just that.
The few conversations I've had with Android users who were not phone geeks had a very similar ring to them. But evidently, expecting a product, and a system built on a suite of products to simply do what it's expected to do without a lot of fuss and support, is just stupid.
Tim
And now you are making my argument, the one I use every time the "closed system" nonsense comes up. I haven't run into a single closed door in the Apple system I haven't been able to open with a quick software download. I paid $35-40 a couple of times, most were free. The only drawback is that when you're using software to connect non-Apple devices/software into the Apple system, sometimes it is not as easy and intuitive. Sometimes its even as difficult as making stuff work in Windows. And that's why I laugh when the whole closed argument comes up: A) It's not hard to open, it's just really, really easy when you don't bother. B) While I'll admit that Windows has gotten a lot better, for years that system was effectively closed to everyone but computer literates, while Apple was making things easier and easier and more and more intuitive for the rest of us. So now, even though Windows has gotten much better, Apple is the system known to just do what it's supposed to do, for many millions of users.
Basic brand-building stuff. The brand isn't built on being the fastest, the most advanced or the most flexible; it is built, very well, on being intuitive, and being an integrated system of products that all work together seamlessly. At this point, it doesn't really matter if Windows is as stable and nearly as intuitive as OSX. It wouldn't really even matter if they had managed to make all the 3rd party products in the world work with Windows as well as an iPhone works with an Airport express, many will assume Windows is going to be a PIA for civilians to operate, because it has a long history of just that.
The few conversations I've had with Android users who were not phone geeks had a very similar ring to them. But evidently, expecting a product, and a system built on a suite of products to simply do what it's expected to do without a lot of fuss and support, is just stupid.
Tim
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OK, solve this problem Tim: I want a larger display than the iPhone 5. You can't, right? That is part of being closed. Not licensing the OS itself to others means that if you want a better phone, you need to sit there praying and dreaming of the next one. Apple being apple, won't give you any clues to plan your life. I can't tell you how many times someone asked me if they should get the current iPhone or wait for the next one. With Android, you don't have that worry. At any time, you have a choice of 2-3 excellent phones if not more.
Even if I were to go by your argument, anyone savvy enough to go and hunt around for stuff to unlock the restrictions in their iPhone, should have no problem whatsoever navigating Android!
You can't say Android is hard and then say you jump through these hoops to get around Apple locks.What a wonderful thread, LOL. It is interesting to see the zeal in which non iphone users defend their choice of phone and how us iphone users defend the product.
As an aside, one of my dear PC's at my office caught a virus yesterday. This little darling wrote around my virus protection software and froze up my PC. Don't we all just love it when that happens.
Now for some unknown reason, this little darling and all of her ilk have NEVER managed to infect any of my Mac's. Not in over ten years of ownership, not once....how many of us can say that about our dear PC's...inquiring minds and all that.
BTW, we all know that Norton and Macafee have armies of poor Indians on payroll writing corrupt code and viruses as their primary source of income....or am I imagining things, LOL.
One last thought, when someone says to me that they prefer an Android based phone or a PC to a Mac, I'm pleased for them....after all it wouldn't be good if Mac had a total monopoly...even if they may deserve it:b
As an aside, one of my dear PC's at my office caught a virus yesterday
. This little darling wrote around my virus protection software and froze up my PC. Don't we all just love it when that happens.Now for some unknown reason
, this little darling and all of her ilk have NEVER managed to infect any of my Mac's. Not in over ten years of ownership, not once....how many of us can say that about our dear PC's...inquiring minds and all that.BTW, we all know that Norton and Macafee have armies of poor Indians on payroll writing corrupt code and viruses as their primary source of income....or am I imagining things, LOL.
One last thought, when someone says to me that they prefer an Android based phone or a PC to a Mac, I'm pleased for them
....after all it wouldn't be good if Mac had a total monopoly...even if they may deserve it:bBeing closed and not offering every possible flavor are two different things. Buick isn't closed but doesn't offer a sports car either.
Actually we know each September or so there will be a new phone. And that last years new model will be discounted. It's been very regular and you know what your choices will be minus new features on the new phone which nobody divulges officially beforehand. The decision to wait or not with tech always has to do with personal timing. Need a new phone, should I get the S3 or wait a couple of months for the S4, whatever it may be? There's always something at the end of the rainbow with tech.
Not licensing iOS yields the seamlessness, ease and consistency of interface (how many versions of Android are being actively used now and how many customs skins?) many value highly. Apple has around 85% of all smartphone profits. Their model is entirely different from Google's. They rely on hardware for profits, so yeah, they're not going to give that away but again, I (and many ) find the products their model spawns to be best in the utility and experiences I care about. And again, can somebody tell me what this model closes me out of?
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
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