CJ ART Monos & Zanden 9600 Monos

[LL21]

Hi. Has anyone heard both of these before, or able to provide any insights as to how they compare? System:
Wilson X1/Grand Slamms (95db efficient with fairly benign 6ohm load nearly all the way across with pretty much no nasty dips)
Zanden digital front end
CJ GAT.
So both companies already represented!

Priorities? Purity of tonality/midrange beauty first, then supreme power, then detail/delicacy/extension. One would expect the Zanden might have the edge on Priority 1, and the CJ on Priority 2...that said, with a 95db efficient speaker, one has to wonder if you need 275 watts vs 100 watts (60 watts Class A). And CJ ARTs are reputed to be particularly special in mids/treble in this generation. Thanks for any guidance.

 

[XV-1]

WOW Lloyd

decisions, decisions. You giving up on your Colloseum's or adding some tube flavour as an alternative ?

I think either choice would be superb. All I know is that my teflon prem8a's have the most pure and extended airy treble I have heard - the ART must be better. I think Myles B has said the ART sounds like the best SET amp with bass control.

Can you get to hear both?

 

[microstrip]

Lloyd,

Have you been reading too much about the Zanden versus real session?

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,

Have you been reading too much about the Zanden versus real session?

I have not read it at all!! But now that you mention it...point me in the right direction please! Is this a thread in WBF?

 

[LL21]

WOW Lloyd

decisions, decisions. You giving up on your Colloseum's or adding some tube flavour as an alternative ?

I think either choice would be superb. All I know is that my teflon prem8a's have the most pure and extended airy treble I have heard - the ART must be better. I think Myles B has said the ART sounds like the best SET amp with bass control.

Can you get to hear both?

I am going to try to hear both...but who knows. I've had my eye on Zanden Transport for so bloody long, i was kicking around ideas with my dealer, and he came up with a possible trade + cash...Colosseum + cash to get Transport + diff amps. Just thinking about it...hard.

I have to say, its hard to part with Gryphon but this might be the only way...the Gryphon is such purity of tonality with such unstoppable force it is incredible. But my oppo transport died, and i got an oppo 95 at a nice deep discount on demo...and it got me thinking. Hence as you say, decisions, decisions...

 

[microstrip]

I have not read it at all!! But now that you mention it...point me in the right direction please! Is this a thread in WBF?

Here it goes. Enjoy!
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/zanden/zanden.html

 

[LL21]

Here it goes. Enjoy!
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/zanden/zanden.html

thank you!

 

[Thf99]

I am going to try to hear both...but who knows. I've had my eye on Zanden Transport for so bloody long, i was kicking around ideas with my dealer, and he came up with a possible trade + cash...Colosseum + cash to get Transport + diff amps. Just thinking about it...hard.

I have to say, its hard to part with Gryphon but this might be the only way...the Gryphon is such purity of tonality with such unstoppable force it is incredible. But my oppo transport died, and i got an oppo 95 at a nice deep discount on demo...and it got me thinking. Hence as you say, decisions, decisions...

You will be making a very big mistake if you give up the Colosseum. I never knew what control was until I heard the Mephisto. The Burmester 911 mono just could not control the deep bass on track 8 of TAS 2007 CD. The woofer in my speakers just gave a flapping/blurping sound (sounded like the rubber lining was broken) when the bass note was played. At first, I thought it was the recording. When played through the Mephisto, the bass note came through perfectly normal even when I turned up the volume. The Gryphon's control of the music is just superb. I am sure the Colosseum can have the same control. When paired with the Trident speakers, the Colosseum sounded glorious. Only the very keen-eared can tell the difference between the 2 Gryphon units.

 

[andromedaaudio]

There is only one absolute way to find out , try them both in your system for some time

I know the 9600 quite a bit , i only once heard a CJ the MV 60 or something i think it was , sounded great by the way.
The zanden bass will give a rounded delicate detailed bass , (Boulder) SS has more robust drive , there is something to like about both .
If my music choice would be primarily acoustical music /jazz /classical, zanden would be my first choice .
I dont think there is a power issue with both ,remember steve drives the X 2 with 32 watts , you could get also good result with a smaller CJ amp i think.

At that level i dont think any choice would be a mistake , music is much more than the ultimate basscontrol.

PS in the end you can probably always by a colosseum back.

 

[microstrip]

(...) At that level i dont think any choice would be a mistake , music is much more than the ultimate basscontrol. (...)

I must agree. For me the ultimate bass control in my system was the Devialet. But is was not my preference.

 

[Thf99]

There is only one absolute way to find out , try them both in your system for some time

I know the 9600 quite a bit , i only once heard a CJ the MV 60 or something i think it was , sounded great by the way.
The zanden bass will give a rounded delicate detailed bass , SS has more robust drive , there is something to like about both .
If my music choice would be primarily acoustical music /jazz /classical, zanden would be my first choice .
I dont think there is a power issue with both ,remember steve drives the X 2 with 32 watts , you could get also good result with a smaller CJ amp i think.

At that level i dont think any choice would be a mistake , music is much more than the ultimate basscontrol.

PS in the end you can probably always by a colosseum back.

Yes, I agree music is not only about ultimate bass control. I only mentioned this because this is one area where the Gryphon particularly excelled. As for the others...tonal purity, power with finesse, macro and micro dynamics, etc, etc. the Gryphon has them in spades and then some. The Mephisto and I believe, the Colosseum as well, are probably only a handful of ss amps that have the delicacy and sweetness of tubes.

 

[microstrip]

Yes, I agree music is not only about ultimate bass control. I only mentioned this because this is one area where the Gryphon particularly excelled. As for the others...tonal purity, power with finesse, macro and micro dynamics, etc, etc. the Gryphon has them in spades and then some. The Mephisto and I believe, the Colosseum as well, are probably only a handful of ss amps that have the delicacy and sweetness of tubes.

I have not listened to the Mephisto, but spent some time listening to the Colosseum. It has many good qualities, but IMHO it does not have the delicacy and sweetness of the best tubes. Perhaps the Mephisto is better in this aspect.

 

[LL21]

Thanks Gents, Very helpful! FWIW, I used to own the CJ MV60...and when i replaced it with my Antileon, i was quite impressed that the Antileon was a 99% match for the magic in the midrange. Now, i know the MV60 can be far surpassed in the midrange by other tube amps...but the MV60 was quite a special amp, particularly for the money. In any event, i have always wondered what SOTA tubes would sound like in my system. on the one hand Zanden digital and CJ pre already gives me much of that...but there are far, far too many people who have espoused the virtues of high-quality, high-current tubed amps. I am most curious to listen!

 

[flez007]

Hi. Has anyone heard both of these before, or able to provide any insights as to how they compare? System:
Wilson X1/Grand Slamms (95db efficient with fairly benign 6ohm load nearly all the way across with pretty much no nasty dips)
Zanden digital front end
CJ GAT.
So both companies already represented!

Priorities? Purity of tonality/midrange beauty first, then supreme power, then detail/delicacy/extension. One would expect the Zanden might have the edge on Priority 1, and the CJ on Priority 2...that said, with a 95db efficient speaker, one has to wonder if you need 275 watts vs 100 watts (60 watts Class A). And CJ ARTs are reputed to be particularly special in mids/treble in this generation. Thanks for any guidance.

Gryphon Mephisto!

 

[LL21]

Gryphon Mephisto!

But of course!

 

[flez007]

But of course!

sorry Lloyd, just could´nt hold it!!

 

[microstrip]

Thanks Gents, Very helpful! FWIW, I used to own the CJ MV60...and when i replaced it with my Antileon, i was quite impressed that the Antileon was a 99% match for the magic in the midrange. Now, i know the MV60 can be far surpassed in the midrange by other tube amps...but the MV60 was quite a special amp, particularly for the money. In any event, i have always wondered what SOTA tubes would sound like in my system. on the one hand Zanden digital and CJ pre already gives me much of that...but there are far, far too many people who have espoused the virtues of high-quality, high-current tubed amps. I am most curious to listen!

The MV60 is an outdated amplifier - although you can improve it a lot upgrading the capacitors, it should not be compared with more advanced or recent designs. IMHO the bass of the MV60 can not do justice to your speakers, and will affect your perception of the middle frequencies.

 

[Thf99]

I had a home audition of the ARC Ref 40/Ref 250 earlier and they sounded great but did not "wow" me. The Mephisto is the only amp that "wowed" me and hence, my decision to acquire it. I had also listened a couple of good amps before the Gryphon purchase... amps such as Soulution, Vitus, Goldmund, MBL, Devialet, ......

 

[mep]

The MV60 is an outdated amplifier - although you can improve it a lot upgrading the capacitors, it should not be compared with more advanced or recent designs. IMHO the bass of the MV60 can not do justice to your speakers, and will affect your perception of the middle frequencies.

Micro-what is more *advanced* about recent design tube amps? Are you referring to bigger power supplies and the latest generation of CJ output transformers or something else?

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

While we audiophiles marvel at smallish differences brought in by different amplifiers of the same level of quality., I believe that speakers make the most difference in a system. I have come to see that differences between superlative gears is that of flavors. Not of truly intrinsic qualities. lateral moves abound in Audio, just a different sound and often a drop but since we are now paying attention we call it improvement , until the next ...lateral move.

I am certain there is some cash going from you to your dealer, I doubt it will be from him to you. You have an excellent top flight system. No doubt. IMHO, the X-2 is vastly superior to the X-1. Not by a small margin, I have heard both and some here who have had both could chime in. Your system as it is is world-class; if there is limitation in your system it is not the amp it is the speakers... . IOW, your system will not truly improve with a change from a superlative amp to another superlative amp with a different flavor, it will simply change. A move to the X-2 brings it to the next level. I would add if possible to the X-2 a pair of subs, I would look into subs I personally think are superior to the Velodyne: Paradigm Sub 1, Seaton (Price is right), JL Audio, etc. And I would keep everything else. It may end up costing you slightly more but in the end you would have a vastly better system. A Superlative system.

All that IMO, some other people would have a different view, YMMV, all the usual caveats and modifiers.

I Hope I don't come across parochial. If I do please accept my apologies.