Reasonable priced quality12ax7 Pre Amp Tubes

[Jazzbo]

Dear forum members,

As a retiree I've got to get some advice regarding where to go to get a matched pair of 12ax7 tubes. I'd love to get a set that is musical with great depth, expansiveness and good to excellent lows and highs. What I am looking for is your advice on reasonable priced tubes with exact model numbers and what I should be looking for. Please advise the Ebay store or other resource. Is it possible to get a good set of tubes for $50 to $100 dollars or is this laughable. What is your listening experience? Thanks so much all.

jazzbo bob

 

[MylesBAstor]

Dear forum members,

As a retiree I've got to get some advice regarding where to go to get a matched pair of 12ax7 tubes. I'd love to get a set that is musical with great depth, expansiveness and good to excellent lows and highs. What I am looking for is your advice on reasonable priced tubes with exact model numbers and what I should be looking for. Please advise the Ebay store or other resource. Is it possible to get a good set of tubes for $50 to $100 dollars or is this laughable. What is your listening experience? Thanks so much all.

jazzbo bob

If you're looking for newly manufactured tubes, check out the GL or Tungsol. Am breaking in four GL right now in my phono stage. Stay away from the JJ/Teslas. Cheap and you might as well buy a dozen to replace the tubes as they go hour by hour. Kevin Deal/Upscale Audio is a good source and you can get very low noise tubes if that's needed.

 

[Jazzbo]

Good morning Mr. Astor and forum members. Thank you so much for your comments and input. My pre amp will be a 2 piece instrument with separate power supply and pre amp. The power supply will use a single 6SN7 while the pre amp itself will use a single 6SN7 plus a pair of 12AX7 tubes. I wonder if I will have to purchase a matched pair of 6SN7 tubes as well as a matched pair of 12AX7's.

The engineer/tech who is building my pre amp designs and produces a line of tube amps, pre amps and speakers. He is building this tube tape head pre amp for me at my request. He is doing this as a favor to me but notes he has more work than he can handle now and it will be several months before he completes my pre amp. I will be taking my Tascam 42B to him to have cables running directly from the tape heads out. I will leave the tape deck with him so that when he builds the pre amp, he will have an opportunity to see how it will work with my Tascam. At some point when he is less busy, I will see if he will build this pre amp for the tape recorder market. In the mean time I want to be able to find some low noise-high output 12AX7 tubes that will not break the bank, but will provide excellent sound. I am almost certain I will have to get matched pair of 12AX7's but not sure about the 6SN7's. I need direction regarding the Ebay stores that can be trusted as well as other resources. I am primarily concerned that I find a tube source who test the tubes for noise and other possible problems. Well, I had no idea I would be posting at this length but wanted everyone to get, "The Rest Of The Story". Thanks so much.

Right now I am using a pair of "Peter Gunn" modified Magnapan 1.6 speakers which are rather inefficient (84db) and requires my Classe pre amp volume control to be advanced a little more than normal. I mostly listen to large and small group modern jazz, large and small scale orchestral music as well as large and small scale choral works. I love choral music.

Again, I am not certain if I should look for a tested matched pair of 12AX7's, but don't think I will need a matching set of 6SN7 tubes. What do you think? I will always value every comment and all input. As always, thank you very much forum members.

jazzbo

 

[MylesBAstor]

Good morning Mr. Astor and forum members. Thank you so much for your comments and input. My pre amp will be a 2 piece instrument with separate power supply and pre amp. The power supply will use a single 6SN7 while the pre amp itself will use a single 6SN7 plus a pair of 12AX7 tubes. I wonder if I will have to purchase a matched pair of 6SN7 tubes as well as a matched pair of 12AX7's.

The engineer/tech who is building my pre amp designs and produces a line of tube amps, pre amps and speakers. He is building this tube tape head pre amp for me at my request. He is doing this as a favor to me but notes he has more work than he can handle now and it will be several months before he completes my pre amp. I will be taking my Tascam 42B to him to have cables running directly from the tape heads out. I will leave the tape deck with him so that when he builds the pre amp, he will have an opportunity to see how it will work with my Tascam. At some point when he is less busy, I will see if he will build this pre amp for the tape recorder market. In the mean time I want to be able to find some low noise-high output 12AX7 tubes that will not break the bank, but will provide excellent sound. I am almost certain I will have to get matched pair of 12AX7's but not sure about the 6SN7's. I need direction regarding the Ebay stores that can be trusted as well as other resources. I am primarily concerned that I find a tube source who test the tubes for noise and other possible problems. Well, I had no idea I would be posting at this length but wanted everyone to get, "The Rest Of The Story". Thanks so much.

Right now I am using a pair of "Peter Gunn" modified Magnapan 1.6 speakers which are rather inefficient (84db) and requires my Classe pre amp volume control to be advanced a little more than normal. I mostly listen to large and small group modern jazz, large and small scale orchestral music as well as large and small scale choral works. I love choral music.

Again, I am not certain if I should look for a tested matched pair of 12AX7's, but don't think I will need a matching set of 6SN7 tubes. What do you think? I will always value every comment and all input. As always, thank you very much forum members.

jazzbo

Maybe you need to ask your friend whether the 12ax7s are in a critical part of the circuit where low noise/matching is desireable.

 

[Jazzbo]

Hello again Mr. Astor,

Your question is a good one and I did just get a response from the pre amp builder. The 12AX7 tubes are in a critical part of the circuit and would greatly benefit from the pair being matched. UpScale Audio looks like a great place to start sir. By the way, I was most amazed that the signal coming from a tape head is so very small and kind of similar to my moving coil pre amp. Thanks much.

jazzbo

 

[Steve Williams]

I buy all my tubes from Kevin at Upscale Audio

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hello again Mr. Astor,

Your question is a good one and I did just get a response from the pre amp builder. The 12AX7 tubes are in a critical part of the circuit and would greatly benefit from the pair being matched. UpScale Audio looks like a great place to start sir. By the way, I was most amazed that the signal coming from a tape head is so very small and kind of similar to my moving coil pre amp. Thanks much.

jazzbo

Yes and need to match the impedance of the head to the electronics (as well as having to carefully choose the wire between the head and electronics).

 

[Jazzbo]

Mr. Williams and Mr. Astor thank you for the UpScale Audio info. Let me ask if "Cryo" process adds to the quality of the sound of the tubes? To have this process done will add an additional cost and I have no idea if it's worth it or not. I will be leaving my Tascam 42B with the pre amp builder so that he can match the impedance properly and get the best outcome.

I understand that some of the more esoteric and very expensive tape head pre amps have a means of switching the impedance to match the output of more tape heads. I am sure that would be preferred, but, would add additional costs. However, depending on what that costs is I might elect to have him add this feature.

One of the very fine tape recorder guru's on this forum has already sent me 2 lengths of wire he uses on his big Ampex and Studer machines. It was very kind of him to do that so that I could be assured of having some of the best wire possible for this purpose.

I will not now be going on Ebay to buy tubes, but did notice that they sold "Matched Pairs" of tubes. Does UpScale Audio offer this service? Along with you guys there are many wonderful people on this forum willing to come to the aid of another forum member. What more can I ask????? Again, thank you so much.

 

[Steve Williams]

I say "forget" the notion of adding cryo to the tubes

Caveat Emptor

 

[MylesBAstor]

Mr. Williams and Mr. Astor thank you for the UpScale Audio info. Let me ask if "Cryo" process adds to the quality of the sound of the tubes? To have this process done will add an additional cost and I have no idea if it's worth it or not. I will be leaving my Tascam 42B with the pre amp builder so that he can match the impedance properly and get the best outcome.

I understand that some of the more esoteric and very expensive tape head pre amps have a means of switching the impedance to match the output of more tape heads. I am sure that would be preferred, but, would add additional costs. However, depending on what that costs is I might elect to have him add this feature.

One of the very fine tape recorder guru's on this forum has already sent me 2 lengths of wire he uses on his big Ampex and Studer machines. It was very kind of him to do that so that I could be assured of having some of the best wire possible for this purpose.

I will not now be going on Ebay to buy tubes, but did notice that they sold "Matched Pairs" of tubes. Does UpScale Audio offer this service? Along with you guys there are many wonderful people on this forum willing to come to the aid of another forum member. What more can I ask????? Again, thank you so much.

Matching and noise. You would select "Platinum" level for the desired tube type.

 

[Bill Hart]

Yep, i'm not sure about most vendors on e-bay for tubes. There are a number of reliable sources in the US who will guarantee what they sell and have websites with more info. Just for the hell of it, you might try a less than perfect 'collector' tube (smeared graphic, or 'used' and not represented to be 'new in box' or perfect, but otherwise expensive- like a telefunken). But if you go for the really good provenanced stuff, those tubes are very expensive.- The only reason i suggest it is that if you got the taste of those, and thought they were terrific, you might decide to spend the cash for a really good pair. I buy from Tubeworld, he will allow you to return tubes, at least the more expensive ones.
Me, I did just buy some tubes off ebay this morning that were pretty hard to find- they are telephony tubes Mullard E810F UK manufacture, New in Box.
But generally, I stay away from the ebay sellers.
For small tubes in preamps, I was rolling 6dj8 type, and liked the Tele the best, sonically compared to Mullard and Siemens. But, part of that is my listening bias, the circuit the tubes were in, and the sound of the rest of the system overall.

 

[DaveyF]

I too buy all my tubes from Kevin. He's a great source of not just the tubes but of knowledge as well. I have referred many other a'philes to him, all get great tubes, but beware, he can be a bit "uppity"...just take him with a grain of salt, LOL. One of my friends almost got into a "xxxxing" contest with him...remember he probably has the same stresses as the rest of us.

 

[kach22i]

As a retiree I've got to get some advice regarding where to go to get a matched pair of 12ax7 tubes.

I've found the reviews at thetubestore.com to be very helpful when making a decision. If you look at the chart they have a "Preferred Series" -7025 in the 12ax7 category, not sure if this is a one for one proper replacement tube, and I've never heard of this brand. However, it's the only tube receiving a 5-5-5 rating from them.

http://thetubestore.com/12ax7review.html

My EL-34 power amp with single 6SL7 input tube are all Tung-Sol, they took a while to break-in, but are an excellent value in my opinion.

 

[Jazzbo]

Good Monday afternoon everyone and thank you all so much for your replies. I will certainly stay away from Ebay and taking a chance on getting damaged goods. It appears to me from your comments that the circuit the intended tube is used in makes a great difference. Both 12AX7 tubes will be used in the pre amp section and the one (I just learned there will only be one) 6SN7 tube will be used in the separate power supply. That is what the thinking is now of the person who will build the pre amp.

"Platinum level" tubes were mentioned. Actually, I did not know of such a level. That's not to say that I don't know there are certain tubes chosen over others. However, how do I discover the platinum level tubes and will they be significantly more expensive than other tube of the same model or those mentioned above? Again, I am assuming this pre amp will be similar to a low level moving coil phono cartridge pre amp as far as build is concerned in terms of reaching a level of output to drive my main pre amp (two tape in/outputs) and power amp. Finally, I am just trying to build a very small stash of tubes (2 sets of each tube) in order to do some tube rolling to see what sounds best.

jazzbo

 

[Bill Hart]

Good Monday afternoon everyone and thank you all so much for your replies. I will certainly stay away from Ebay and taking a chance on getting damaged goods. It appears to me from your comments that the circuit the intended tube is used in makes a great difference. Both 12AX7 tubes will be used in the pre amp section and the one (I just learned there will only be one) 6SN7 tube will be used in the separate power supply. That is what the thinking is now of the person who will build the pre amp.

"Platinum level" tubes were mentioned. Actually, I did not know of such a level. That's not to say that I don't know there are certain tubes chosen over others. However, how do I discover the platinum level tubes and will they be significantly more expensive than other tube of the same model or those mentioned above? Again, I am assuming this pre amp will be similar to a low level moving coil phono cartridge pre amp as far as build is concerned in terms of reaching a level of output to drive my main pre amp (two tape in/outputs) and power amp. Finally, I am just trying to build a very small stash of tubes (2 sets of each tube) in order to do some tube rolling to see what sounds best.

jazzbo

I don't think "platinum' has any technical meaning, it is a grading reference- lowest noise, best numbers on a tube tester, closest match if sold as a set.
I can't advise you on best tube for a given circuit, beyond my pay grade.
Every tube has a different sonic signature, you can get a general sense from the descriptions but ultimately, i think 'tube rolling' is a pretty personalized process, beyond getting a tube that tests well, and is from a reliable source. Thus, many of us have tried many different tubes in our preamps/phono stages. And part of it may depend on what the sonics of the rest of the system are like- you may want/need a very neutral sounding tube or one that adds a degree of romance, depending on what the rest of the system sounds like.
I have little experience with new tubes, other than what goes in my Lamm stuff, and that's not really something you can 'roll' except for the little 12A_ tube. There, I use a NOS ribbed plate telefunken.
The closest you could come to relying on recommendations, apart from general descriptions of what particular brand/vintages sound like is if someone else had the same component and said I used X, Y, or Z and here's what it sounded like to me. But yours is a custom unit, so you don't even have that as a reference.
My 3 pesos= try a range of different tubes and see what you like, or if on a budget, look at what a few others have recommended, since the old telefunken tubes aren't cheap (but as I indicated, if you buy ones that don't have perfect graphics, etc. from a reliable source, you can get a price break, and probably be ok if from a good supplier).

 

[Jazzbo]

To all of my audio friends here, thank you again for your very needed and important input. I do understand there are so many variables that have to do with one's music system, individual components to include speakers, cables and interconnects. I also understand the pre amp circuit also has much to do with what tubes might sound best. And of course there is the psycho-acoustic affect to include one's listening desires. I have certainly gotten enough information regarding where I should go for high quality tubes and not be ripped off and that's most important. What a great group of individuals here who are willing to offer advice at the drop of a hat. What more can I ask for. Thanks so much friends.

jazzbo

 

[MylesBAstor]

To all of my audio friends here, thank you again for your very needed and important input. I do understand there are so many variables that have to do with one's music system, individual components to include speakers, cables and interconnects. I also understand the pre amp circuit also has much to do with what tubes might sound best. And of course there is the psycho-acoustic affect to include one's listening desires. I have certainly gotten enough information regarding where I should go for high quality tubes and not be ripped off and that's most important. What a great group of individuals here who are willing to offer advice at the drop of a hat. What more can I ask for. Thanks so much friends.

jazzbo

Opinions aren't one thing that WBF lacks

 

[Jazzbo]

Mr. Astor you've got that right and that's a good thing

jazzbo

 

[Jazzbo]

If you're looking for newly manufactured tubes, check out the GL or Tungsol. Am breaking in four GL right now in my phono stage. Stay away from the JJ/Teslas. Cheap and you might as well buy a dozen to replace the tubes as they go hour by hour. Kevin Deal/Upscale Audio is a good source and you can get very low noise tubes if that's needed.

Mr. Astor I am going to order a pair of Tungsol ECC803 (12AX7's) and a pair of Genalex-Gold Lion 12AX7's. I can at least do a little rolling to see what happens. Thanks for the advice and I want to thank everyone who contributed info. I am more than appreciative.

jazzbo

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Jazzbo. I see that you are relatively new to the forum. If I haven't welcomed you to the forum yet, I do offer a genuine welcome. I know this forum can be seemingly large when you are a new member, so I'll offer you a link to a tube supplier thread that will assist you in finding what you are looking for if you haven't ran across it yet. Happy hunting and happy tube rolling! Enjoy the music.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?5438-Tube-Supplier-and-cross-reference-thread