Plug-In Hybrid EV: Best of Both Worlds or Worst of Both Worlds?

EV's will require big subsidies and a grid infrastructure that is not real world. the money tree for it has died. voters are not going there again.
We were in Norway in June. 96% of new cars sold in 2025 are EVs. Ninety. Six. Percent. Cars are already very expensive but Chinese EVs are everywhere (we drove in a couple) so that helps, along with subsidies. Mike, one thing I can say is the vast majority of EV owners won’t go back to ICE vehicles, even once the subsidies end. And while we’re on the topic of subsidies, let us not forget that U.S. taxpayers bailed out the auto industry to the tune of $81 billion during the global financial crisis.
 
My wife has driven Volvo's forever. They have been great. We have the XC60 from 2020 so not hybrid but our 2 kids have xc40 hybrids and they have been delighted. We live in cold climate, Calgary, and charging is an issue, as is the access to chargers. Both XC40's have worked flawlessly, have great mileage and lots of get up and go. I drive a Macan in the winter. Interestingly, another friend with a Macan switched to an electric Macan and is getting rid of it. Not sure if it is of any help but my 2 cents worth.
 
We were in Norway in June. 96% of new cars sold in 2025 are EVs. Ninety. Six. Percent. Cars are already very expensive but Chinese EVs are everywhere (we drove in a couple) so that helps, along with subsidies. Mike, one thing I can say is the vast majority of EV owners won’t go back to ICE vehicles, even once the subsidies end. And while we’re on the topic of subsidies, let us not forget that U.S. taxpayers bailed out the auto industry to the tune of $81 billion during the global financial crisis.

Norway electricity is supplied mainly by green energy sources - hydropower (89%) and wind power (9%), that generate almost half its energy needs.

It is a rich country, surely we can expect them have essentially EV cars, while selling their fossil fuels to other countries - they are a leading exporter of oil and natural gas to Europe and the world.
 
We were in Norway in June. 96% of new cars sold in 2025 are EVs. Ninety. Six. Percent.
i admire many things about Scandinavia, especially Norway.

Norway has a much more even distribution of wealth, natural resources help fund Norway's social programs, a better approach to education, Norway drives fewer miles, and has better public transportation. and is certainly more together culturally for many reasons.

so the idea of broad EV ownership is a better fit. autos have a different place in Norway than the usa.
Cars are already very expensive but Chinese EVs are everywhere (we drove in a couple) so that helps, along with subsidies.
agree.
Mike, one thing I can say is the vast majority of EV owners won’t go back to ICE vehicles, even once the subsidies end. And while we’re on the topic of subsidies, let us not forget that U.S. taxpayers bailed out the auto industry to the tune of $81 billion during the global financial crisis.
the auto industry paid that back. all of it.
 
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For my wife, we leased a '25 BMW x5 phev in mid June and it has been great. Previously my wife had a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid and over time we just hated the car, and when the paint started to go after 2 years, we decided it was time to trade it in while we could. The Tucson got pretty good mileage, averaged about 31-33 mpg, but on long road trips it dropped into the mid 20's. So far with the BMW, we have only had to put gas in it once so far and that was due to a long road trip. But in hybrid mode the gas engine gets about 28-29 mpg on the highway, so not too bad. But the real kicker is for my wife she typically doesn't drive more than 40 miles a day, so basically she is only driving it as an electric vehicle, hence we never have to put gas in it, but don't have to have the range anxiety for the long road trips. However we leased it becuase we weren't sure how we would like it, and my hope is by the time the lease expires the next gen x5 phev's have closer to a 70-80 mile electric range, that would be huge, versus the 40-50 currently.
 
My wife has driven Volvo's forever. They have been great. We have the XC60 from 2020 so not hybrid but our 2 kids have xc40 hybrids and they have been delighted. We live in cold climate, Calgary, and charging is an issue, as is the access to chargers. Both XC40's have worked flawlessly, have great mileage and lots of get up and go. I drive a Macan in the winter. Interestingly, another friend with a Macan switched to an electric Macan and is getting rid of it. Not sure if it is of any help but my 2 cents worth.
Thank you for the report.
 
Please post a link to this. I see no info on this.

“The EPA uses a standard energy content of 33.7 kWh per gallon of gasoline as the baseline for comparison. MPGe is calculated by determining how far a vehicle can travel on 33.7 kWh of energy.”
One key metric is that ICE efficiency is only about 30% at best, so often the 33.7 figure equates to only 8-10 kWh actual functional energy. Our new electric Cadillac has been averaging around 2.8 m/kWh. So lets say a gallon of petrol gets me 9 kWh energy, I’m only getting ~ 25 mpg vs the 80-85 MPGe published number. But I pay $0.19/kWh for electricity and here in Oregon area pay ~$4.35/gal for petrol. If my calculations are right I’m getting about 64 MPGe. But that is driving with the occasional mashed accelerator (its fun), and freeway speeds usually around 76 mph. I’m sure if I drove more at the speed limit the numbers would be better.

I’m sure there is an equation out there that is better than my crappy back-of-napkin calculations.
 
In the early years of commercially available hybrids and EVs, I had multi day evaluation periods with EVs, serial, and parallel hybrids as part of my course. GM, Nissan, and Toyota would provide vehicles so that the class could assess them.

In the years since, I’ve owned more than a dozen. My favorites have been Prii (plural of Prius) and Camrys. Both are classic Toyota parallel hybrids. Both have plug in versions. Both, in our driving style, have given long term real mpgs of more than 50.

I’ve not liked any of the SUV sized hybrids. Too heavy, and not capable of long term average gas mileages in our use pattern.

My least favorite (recently traded away) was the Tundra pickup truck (which is not Toyotas classic powertrain design). Compared to the gas models, the hybrid Tundra is a heavy pig (in my driving style) that gets mediocre gas mileage (even during long junkets on the slab).

Right now we’re driving a ‘23 Prius (which will be traded soon) and a ‘25 Tundra 1794 gas model (that gets its 5000 mile service today). I have a good friend who is a Toyota dealer. For my driving habits, if the cars are comparable, the dealer’s pre and post sale customer service are the deal maker or breaker. I might like some other cars more… but if I think the dealer is practicing jiggery pokery, I won’t buy.

I am pretty negative about dishonest marketing, especially when supported by government. The official MPGe spec is an example. The numbers are always very high, but the calculation literally includes a factor due to “the benefit of electric vehicles to society.” This factor would be more transparent to the competent curious consumer were it a multiplier (above the line). Instead it is a divisor (below the line), and this obfuscates its effect for virtually all but the least math challenged. The net impact on the Well to Wheels calculation is that MPGe is inflated by a factor of about 6. So that 120MPGe EV is really delivering an honestly calculated 20 mpg.
Unless they have regenerative braking, then weight is the primary energy sucker for electric and petrol cars around town.
On the highway, it’s all about the aero.

One can rarely have a car that is too light.
 
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We have both since 2011. We also have a solar home with significant battery back-up, so electricity is cheap for us. If you live in a state with significant mobile charging resources, or if you are willing to buy a Tesla, there is no reason to own anything other than a full electric. Our son lives in Boston with a Tesla in an apartment with no charging facilities and they don’t struggle with charging at all.

If the Lucid Gravity had been available in 2023 we would not have the hybrid we have now. When we move on our two primary vehicles will be electric.

There is no regular service necessary. From our Model S, Model 3P and Air, so 7 years of ownership, there were only 3 warranty repairs needed, and in only 1 instance did it cause a car to be undriveable. The cost of fuel is no more than half of an ICE vehicle. It’s great not to have to go to gas stations.

I will say that in a hybrid with about 28 miles of battery range, we get 800 ish miles to a tank of gas. But many independent mechanics won’t touch them, so you are stuck with the dealer.
 
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Why are you favoring the mild hybrid rather than the plug-in hybrid?
I will keep the car 10+ years. I don’t want the added complexity and not sure what it would cost to replace the battery for the plug in hybrid.

ICE engine design is very mature and sophisticated. I will consider a full EV when solid state battery tech is commercially viable.
 
i admire many things about Scandinavia, especially Norway.

Norway has a much more even distribution of wealth, natural resources help fund Norway's social programs, a better approach to education, Norway drives fewer miles, and has better public transportation. and is certainly more together culturally for many reasons.

so the idea of broad EV ownership is a better fit. autos have a different place in Norway than the usa.

agree.

the auto industry paid that back. all

We have both since 2011. We also have a solar home with significant battery back-up, so electricity is cheap for us. If you live in a state with significant mobile charging resources, or if you are willing to buy a Tesla, there is no reason to own anything other than a full electric. Our son lives in Boston with a Tesla in an apartment with no charging facilities and they don’t struggle with charging at all.

If the Lucid Gravity had been available in 2023 we would not have the hybrid we have now. When we move on our two primary vehicles will be electric.

There is no regular service necessary. From our Model S, Model 3P and Air, so 7 years of ownership, there were only 3 warranty repairs needed, and in only 1 instance did it cause a car to be undriveable. The cost of fuel is no more than half of an ICE vehicle. It’s great not to have to go to gas stations.

I will say that in a hybrid with about 28 miles of battery range, we get 800 ish miles to a tank of gas. But many independent mechanics won’t touch them, so you are stuck with the dealer.
I appreciate observations from the EV trenches rather than from someone who has never owned one. I live in Ontario, Canada, where hydro, solar, wind and nuke account for 85% of electricity generation. Because we have so much baseload power, it’s practically given away at night. I pay 2.3 cents per kw hr to charge my Tesla overnight. We regularly use it to drive to and from our vacation property, which is 170 miles away. My electron cost for that drive is 1/10th the cost of gas, despite it being all highway driving with almost no regenerative braking. Performance in town is better because of the braking. But you know what the best part of driving an EV is? Not freezing my butt off in January while I put gas in the car.
 
And not waiting for the engine to warm up before you get heat.
And not having to run the car to get heat or a/c. I often have to cool my heels for half an hour when I pick someone up at the airport. Doing so in my Tesla makes the wait a borderline pleasant experience.
 
i admire many things about Scandinavia, especially Norway.

Norway has a much more even distribution of wealth, natural resources help fund Norway's social programs, a better approach to education, Norway drives fewer miles, and has better public transportation. and is certainly more together culturally for many reasons.

so the idea of broad EV ownership is a better fit. autos have a different place in Norway than the usa.

agree.

the auto industry paid that back. all of it.
Sorry Mike, that simply isn’t true:

Breakdown of the Bailout and Repayments

  • General Motors: Received approximately $49.5 billion from the U.S. government and repaid about $38.3 billion, leading to a loss for taxpayers.
  • Chrysler: Received just under $12 billion from federal and Ontario governments, with only about $9 billion recovered, resulting in a loss.
  • Other Automotive Entities: Received $18.3 billion and repaid $15.2 billion, a loss of $2.5 billion.
 
Sorry Mike, that simply isn’t true:

Breakdown of the Bailout and Repayments

  • General Motors: Received approximately $49.5 billion from the U.S. government and repaid about $38.3 billion, leading to a loss for taxpayers.
  • Chrysler: Received just under $12 billion from federal and Ontario governments, with only about $9 billion recovered, resulting in a loss.
  • Other Automotive Entities: Received $18.3 billion and repaid $15.2 billion, a loss of $2.5 billion.
The automakers repaid fully. The government chose to sell their equity at a loss.
 
Unless they have regenerative braking, then weight is the primary energy sucker for electric and petrol cars around town.
On the highway, it’s all about the aero.

One can rarely have a car that is too light.
Regenerative braking is nice, but the efficiency of the recovery is not very large. As I’m sure you know, every time you convert PE to KE to W or back, there are significant irreversibilities and attendant losses.

But I agree that Mass is a huge factor. It impacts climbing and it impacts acceleration at any speed. As you point out, aerodynamics are the major factor as speed rises to cruising levels.

A whole subfield related to vehicle design rose out of the mass issue. The name coined is “light weighting.”

Another area where advances to reduce energy losses have been made is the area of mechanical friction in the drivetrain. Bearing tolerances, internal sliding surfaces, and lubricants have all played a role. I’ve been surprised at how much faster a 2025 Tundra can roll down a hill compared to a 2005 Tundra … that’s attributable to the mechanical friction and aerodynamic advancements.

I’m sure @Ron Resnick will enjoy the quest to find his next vehicle. When you get down to the brass tacks, he’ll be happiest if his choice is reliable, comfortable, and has adequate space for his needs.
 
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I drive an Audi PHEV and my wife a Toyota RAV 4 hybrid. Both meet our needs currently as we frequently shuttle between our homes about 4 hours apart and we have tough winters up here which impact range. But, I’m very much looking forward to going all EV soon. The driving experience is superior in most every regard.
PHEV are the best of both worlds and the worst of both worlds as you have the complexity of both system and software needed to coordinate them, as well as heavy transmissions and differentials. PHEVs solve range anxiety but involve significant compromises.
While the political climate here is toxic, lost in the discussion is that the grid capacity constraints will solve itself as there is a profit incentive to do so. And, it will largely be solved with renewables as those are the cheapest sources of additional capacity and homeowners are part of that infrastructure buildout. Also lost in this discussion is exciting developments in battery tech. I don’t know that we’ll get to the energy density of gas, but we’ll get much closer to it. AMG just produced a prototype that drove 3400 miles in 24 hours at an average speed of 186 mps. It recharged 250 miles in 5 minutes throughout the day. it also drove 24k miles in 8 days, proving durability under harsh conditions (rapid charge/depletion).
Eventually, the cost will come down, the range will expand and the recharging fears will go away. While it would be nice to have policy helping, it’ll happen anyway. Fortunately.
 
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I´ve had a Volvo XC40 Recharge since-21 and never any issues.
the unique thing about Norway is the will among politicians to encourage buying EV through tax reforms...no VAT on EV and local permissions to drive in bus lanes
this is followed up by probably the worlds best infra structure for charging
over 10.000 fast charging stations this year and still increasing
when driving over the mountains to Bergen, the regeneration is quite substantial and basically I end up with more battery capacity, than when I started the descent
no wonder over 96% of new car sales are EV´s
btw the range anxiety is "overblown" ...I don´t mind stretching my legs and having a coffee after 4-5 hours behind the wheel, despite Volvo´s seats are considered to be among the best
the funny thing is that this heavy beast is as fast as my previous tuned Lancia Delta Integrale or Renault Turbo 2 ...what a laugh!
 
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My wife had a 2010 Prius until June of this year. She had plenty of opportunities to change (upgrade?) vehicles, but she loved that car and literally wept when it had a disagreement with a FedEx truck at 140k miles. She used it mostly for local driving (within 25 miles or so of home), and she got a very consistent 50mpg.
We took it on a 700-mile trip back to the East coast one Christmas, however, and we hit snow and ice. Even through it had winter tires, it was a nightmare trip as it was buffeted by the wind and had difficulty tracking slippery conditions. After that, we were always nervous about driving a vehicle with such a focus on weight-savings, and we avoided using it on any high-speed, high-traffic roads where car-to-car contact could be deadly. That said, the passenger cell survived intact during the FedEx truck collision, and no one was hurt.
She insisted on another hybrid as a replacement, but she wanted one that was a little taller and heavier, and that could be a practical solution for road trips.
We started out looking at Mazda CX-90 plug-in hybrids because I've had a CX-9 since 2018 and it's been very reliable as well as good-looking inside and out, practical, and one of the best-handling 3-row SUVs. It's beautiful inside, and a relative bargain. We researched the PHEV version's well-documented reliability challenges thoroughly, and became comfortable with the warranty coverage. Even the preowned versions that had a year or two and 25k on them seemed to have gotten past the reliability hurdles. We liked the plug-in fuel efficiency, which would accommodate better than 50% of my wife's "running around," and the long-distance mpg, while not outstanding, was adequate. In the end, she decided against it simply because she thought it was a bit too big for 90% of her needs.
We looked at and drove small-to-midsize hybrids from Mazda, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Kia, Hyundai, Lexus, Acura, and Subaru. We did not drive Volvo.
She ended up buying a Kia Sportage hybrid with the "Prestige" trim package because she decided that, for her, the most important factors were pragmatism, ownership costs, mpg, and comfort. The Sportage traditional hybrid was acceptable in terms of appearance inside and out and reasonably comfortable. It is absolutely loaded with convenience and safety features, and it claimed 38 mpg overall. Above all, it is a bargain, coming in at 65%-80% of some of the alternatives, with equally economical maintenance costs. I did not (and do not) feel that its ride and handling was on the level of the Mazdas or BMWs, but it didn't seem to bother her and it's her car. In the six weeks she has had the car, it has averaged 38.4 mpg over 1,400 miles.
All that said, I would have chosen the Volvo XC60. While I don't think that Consumer Reports does a good job of capturing the "soul" and other intangibles of products, I do trust their analysis of the "nuts-and-bolts." Their summary of the XC60 PHEV is as follows: "Volvo's most popular model is the XC60, a five-passenger luxury SUV with an elegant, well-finished interior. The plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) version, badged “Recharge,” elevates the experience considerably, thanks to the ability to drive on electric power for an EPA-estimated 35 miles. And, because the whopping 455 horsepower it has on tap provides tremendously quick acceleration. Unfortunately, like the rest of the XC60 line, the Recharge suffers from super distracting, convoluted controls and a stiff ride." She wanted a plusher ride, so we didn't put it on her list. Consumer Reports also lists the XC60's reliability as "about average."
 

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