Lampizator Genya
- Thread starter rau
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Is the Genya still worth the same price limited edition or not? Would it have been at even a lower price but not for the limited edition? I don't know. I have been tossing this around. However, I suspect the price would not have been different. It's in the same competitive price point as the Helene DAC.
I still think the price of the product is amazing. You get a lot of product for the money. However the resell price is definitely lower when it is not a limited edition anymore.
I think that is speculation. People still like to buy used equipment which gives them a discount off a new piece. Thus, there is always a market for used goods. Second, the price for a new unit is likely to go up which means that used units could be more in demand.
Genya is currently packed up as I'm awaiting moving house.
I checked with Lukasz before even trying it. He was satisfied it wouldn't be an issue with the windings. Sounds incredible FWIW.
Genya is the most expensive DAC I've tried so I can't speak to the Helene.
In the spirit of positivity, I will say that Genya even in stock blows my old Atlantic with optimised tubes out of the water on basically every metric. And I LOVED my Atlantic.
If people get a chance, they should buy a Genya for sure imo.
But I await Lampizator reaching out to me to do the right thing here.
...would you kindly clarify: What exactly are you defining as "...the right thing here." on this topic? Thank you.
I think Lampizator should be reaching out to existing Genya owners and make amends somehow. Either a partial refund or some kind of upgrade. It's up to them.
How they handle it will decide whether I remain a Lampizator customer or not.
But so far all I've heard is counter claims from a Lampizator distributor that plastering 'LIMITED RUN' on the product page and the designer of Genya doing interviews where he categorically says 'We will not be able to make these anymore as we cannot source the chips' somehow means that it was NOT in fact a limited run.
That we all somehow imagined it. And the artificial urgency they drove to hoover up units was a mistake.
I have more than one friend who believes that Lampizator in fact never intended for Genya to be limited. I don't personally go that cynical on the affair, but frankly Fred's counterclaim to my original post comes strangely close to claiming that.
Because in between Fred's statement on here and Lukasz's interview with Ron that I linked, there's a significant delta of clarity. Because listening to Lukasz there's not a doubt in his mind that Genya will be limited to 50 units max and no more.
Yet Fred is coming on here telling me that it was just some opening gambit. If that's the case, then Fred's argument is also with Lukasz then, because both of us were under the same impression: Genya will be a 50 unit run and no more.
And again if that was not the case, then why were distributors coming on here and pushing for Genya orders because they were running out of units, if it was so obvious more would eventually come?
I'm a 42 year-old audiophile and I plan on enjoying this hobby for decades yet. If Lampizator thinks it can survive without people like me on side long term, then good luck. Because I have a lot of friends who love music and make decent money – more than me – and NONE of them care to get into this hobby.
If there's one thing I've learned in business it's don't take your core business for granted, and don't treat them shoddily.
I bought Atlantic and persuaded others to do so. I bought Genya in the opening weeks. I don't know how much more Lampizator wants me to do before they decide I'm a valued customer.
So in short Markus, it's kind of up to Lampizator. I've heard nothing so far. But they may be hearing from my lawyer soon.
Hello Walter,
I know that when I interviewed Lukasz he genuinely believed the production limitation due to the unavailability of additional original Horizon circuit boards. If those circuit boards are now able to be produced anew, it seems to me that that genuinely changes the facts on the ground.
I truly do not believe that Lukasz is guilty of misleading us at the time of the interview.
I know that when I interviewed Lukasz he genuinely believed the production limitation due to the unavailability of additional original Horizon circuit boards. If those circuit boards are now able to be produced anew, it seems to me that that genuinely changes the facts on the ground.
I truly do not believe that Lukasz is guilty of misleading us at the time of the interview.
Let me both clarify and emphasise: I do not believe Lukasz knowingly misled Genya buyers. I was flippantly throwing in a comment from a friend which I don't agree with. I didn't mean to make it appear as my own opinion.
I also like Lukasz personally. A lot. He makes incredible gear and Genya is a fine example of it.
What's at play here is that it is against European law – as in, it is illegal – to claim that a product is a limited edition/limited production run/or any other derivation, whether that be knowingly or whether the product's status changes at a later date.
Let's be clear here: it's not about a manufacturer lying, like claiming a drug will heal something it doesn't.
It's a claim about a product turning out to be untrue. If the marketing information is false, either knowingly or not before or after purchase, then the manufacturer has broken Consumer Protections from the EU's Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 not to mention UK (where I live) contract law.
Lampizator must have lawyers. They should talk to them.
...I understand your displeasure, but I don't understand how this would work (I don't think it's reasonable, but that's a separate matter). It would seem to require an incremental value be derived for every sale over the original 50 units, to please existing Genya customers who, by all accounts, seem pleased with the product they purchased.
I guess you're asserting there is some sort of damage to "society" as it's not clear what the damage would be to the customer, or even how that would be measured.
It wouldn't be the first time I read of a legal decision that didn't make sense, so it will be interesting to see how it goes. I'll go back to my chair and read along quietly.
walterbodd, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. You got a terrific product at a bargain price. My unsolicited advice would be to enjoy the music and chill.
Your opinion does not matter, what matter is that the law here says it is illegal. Period.
Good way to add zero value to the conversation with another opinion.If I had a business and you were my client, I would gladly waive you as a customer
Perhaps rather than slinging comments we all just acknowledge things could have been done better here as there were clear failings in marketing. Great companies listen to customers concerns which in this case were valid and adapt to make them even better and maintain/ improve to ensure enduring relationships. That’s good for everyone involved here: I don’t see how criticizing legitimate views of customers on this thread with “I wouldn’t want you as a customer” or contact attorneys nonsense helps with that. Other forums are better for those sort of antics
I fully agree with you. There are some people upset about this, it can be considered illegal in Europe to even do this kind of behavior, so we the customers should acknowledge that and make the companies improve in the future. Or are we claiming the companies are perfect in every single way?
No one is perfect. But the customers are not companies who should abide by some commercial law. Just saying "get over it" or other dismissive opinions/comments are not relevant (or nice). People would like to hear that there is room for improvement and would like to hear the companies hearing their views on things to improve and then actually come out with suggestions as well. The last thing those people need is an echo chamber of dismissive comments that don't think the company did anything wrong and devaluing their opinion.
They didn't ask for your opinion. They wanted to voice the opinion to the company and see who else was thinking like this and reflect in an honest way.
We should hold companies to higher standards and also our own value as customers, especially when we are talking about items that cost 10k+. And anyone here with a large stake in Lampizator should be looked at critical of their opinion. Their opinions are hard to take as "unbiased" opinion anyway, especially the dealers that sell their items. No offense but it is hard to remove your emotion from your objective view when you are in that position.
Perhaps contacting the company offline and not in a public forum would serve someone better if they wanted compensation for an issue.
It companies use public forums to market then they can expect public responses. I don’t see any problem with raising concerns about marketing of a company and would have been great to see Lampizator get on top of it. Being an owner of a number of Lampizator dacs which are fantastic I hope the company takes steps to improve its marketing approach and learn from this.
...wasn't this at the heart of the matter to begin with?
Customers wanted a product, which was limited by the harvesting of parts from a trade-up. Lampi determined there was a way to meet the demand by ordering more boards and building more Genyas...to satisfy customers.
I suppose on one hand, there will be very happy customers who can now purchase a Genya, which was previous not possible. Then there will be customers who are happy with their Genyas, yet somehow unhappy(?) because their perception of being "special" by having a 1-of-50 product is now "diminished" by having a 1-of-100 product.
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