Yes, he offers the ER242 which have the Moly Metal plate. They cost 1100 EURO more than the "basic" 211.
I will sell them to you for 20% off retail (VAT deducted)? deal?
Is it even worth looking for NOS 211?
- Thread starter Mfdave
- Start date
Sell to Marc. Tell him his Zus Nat system with all the tweaks must be fantastic sounding and say you wish you could travel over for a listen. He will buy with a premium.I will sell them to you for 20% off retail (VAT deducted)? deal?
Alternatively, you can send to me free and I can try to compare at a friend's who has Amperex, United, and WE 242c. He needs to rebias for these, but once the compare is done, you will definitely know if you got it right or not.
Thomas isn't running any Moly 242s atm.Yes, he offers the ER242 which have the Moly Metal plate. They cost 1100 EURO more than the "basic" 211.
I will sell them to you for 20% off retail (VAT deducted)? deal?
Really no idea.
Maybe at the price they don't sell?
Maybe there are technical issues, they're too difficult to fabricate etc?
i thought those were only made on special runs? Once a year or some such frequency?
Hi guys,
to clarify: ER242 and ER284 are currently out of stock and since there is no definitive plan to make more, I cannot give an estimate of when or if they will be available again. No production of those for at least half a year. TM300B are currently sold out and will be available again beginning of next year. The same for ER300B-Mo, will be available again in January. ER211, ER845 and ER300B are in stock.
Thomas
to clarify: ER242 and ER284 are currently out of stock and since there is no definitive plan to make more, I cannot give an estimate of when or if they will be available again. No production of those for at least half a year. TM300B are currently sold out and will be available again beginning of next year. The same for ER300B-Mo, will be available again in January. ER211, ER845 and ER300B are in stock.
Thomas
What is sonically the difference in TM 300b and ER 300b Mo? Are they just supposed to be different, or was one designed as an upgrade to the other?
There is such a big variety of 300B circuits that you cannot expect a certain tube to show the same impact on the sound in all of them. That is why you will see different opinions from people reviewing tubes. Even if two people test a tube in the same amp they can have different opinions depending on how the sound of the tube interacts with the entire system. It is never just the output tube but how it is embedded in the amplifier, how it is driven, etc.
You can find some reviews of users of these tubes in my amps on my blog:
https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2023/08/deutsche-elektronenrohren-manufaktur.html
https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2022/08/deutsche-elektronenrohren-manufaktur.html
https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2022/02/silver-tm300b-mono-blocks-how-do-they.html
And there are many reports about these tubes on head-fi.org
And lastly a long post about my journey with the 300B:
https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2023/12/tube-of-month-300b.html
Best regards
Thomas
Hi Guys, just thought that I would chime into the 211 tube discussion.
Currently listening to Air Tight 211 mono blocks with rare NOS United Electronics 211 with the central glass support. Maybe the best that I have heard, and I was very lucky to stumble on them. Before I listened to these, I thought that NOS Amperex 211's were the very best, now maybe a "toss up" between the two, the UE and the Amperex. I have listened to many 211's in my system. I would rate NOS Amperex=United Electronics (central glass support)> Elrog 242 (which are great) = NOS RCA 211 > Elrog 211 (standard, but the new model)> Audio Note 242E> NOS GE 211. I've been lucky in my search for these NOS 211's. They are hard to find. My 2 cents, and it's up to your ears.
Currently listening to Air Tight 211 mono blocks with rare NOS United Electronics 211 with the central glass support. Maybe the best that I have heard, and I was very lucky to stumble on them. Before I listened to these, I thought that NOS Amperex 211's were the very best, now maybe a "toss up" between the two, the UE and the Amperex. I have listened to many 211's in my system. I would rate NOS Amperex=United Electronics (central glass support)> Elrog 242 (which are great) = NOS RCA 211 > Elrog 211 (standard, but the new model)> Audio Note 242E> NOS GE 211. I've been lucky in my search for these NOS 211's. They are hard to find. My 2 cents, and it's up to your ears.
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What sonic differences do you hear among these various 211 tubes?
So, it’s difficult to go through all the slight sonic differences between all these tubes. All the tubes that I have mentioned are actually quite good, very good. If you go down the scale from the Amperex/UE at the top to the NOS GE at the bottom, well the differences down each step are actually quite incremental, and debatable. But if you jump from the Amperex/UE at the top, all the way down to the GE at the bottom, well then, the change is quite dramatic. The better tubes have all the attributes that we look for, deeper, fuller bass, extended highs, transparency and all the terms that we tend to use.
I will say, that how I tend to rank them is just in my system, to my ears and may not work for all. Also, I tend to collect and hoard these rare tubes and probably have not sufficiently burned in all tubes for over 100 hrs each, so some may “blossom” with more hours. I just acquire them, listen for a while and then put them away. In truth I have 8 of the NOS Amperex 211 tubes, all tested and verified NOS, but who can say that each really sounds the same? I have been just using the 2 that I first picked up and make my judgements from that. So, I’m no authority, just a listener and hobbyist.
Currently I’m enamored with the United Electronics with the glass support. Using older Air Tight AMT 211 monoblocks, AirTight ATE 2001 pre amp, with Zingali Acoustics twenty Evo 2.1 30th anniversary and/orHorning Euphrodite speakers and various input sources. Again, only my 2 cents.
I will say, that how I tend to rank them is just in my system, to my ears and may not work for all. Also, I tend to collect and hoard these rare tubes and probably have not sufficiently burned in all tubes for over 100 hrs each, so some may “blossom” with more hours. I just acquire them, listen for a while and then put them away. In truth I have 8 of the NOS Amperex 211 tubes, all tested and verified NOS, but who can say that each really sounds the same? I have been just using the 2 that I first picked up and make my judgements from that. So, I’m no authority, just a listener and hobbyist.
Currently I’m enamored with the United Electronics with the glass support. Using older Air Tight AMT 211 monoblocks, AirTight ATE 2001 pre amp, with Zingali Acoustics twenty Evo 2.1 30th anniversary and/orHorning Euphrodite speakers and various input sources. Again, only my 2 cents.
Hi!
I would like to add some comments to the validity of sound description of a tube. There are many factors which influence how a certain tube will change the sound. You cannot expect to hear the same differences in different circuits. There are Single ended circuits, Push Pull Class A and Push Pull Class AB. And within these types of circuits different ways to implement them. Beyond those there are even applications which use the 300b as cathode follower which is totally different from the use as power output triode. Don't expect to be able to rely on a sound description made in a different context.
Then there is another aspect. Output tubes typically have a wide range of bias current at given operating points. That is why they usually get matched when sold in pairs. So if you want to do a meaningful evaluation of a tube from a brand you would have to get ones with the average bias current and ones with the lowest and highest in the allowed window. Depending on the amplifier this might or might not have an effect on the sound. One specimen could for example draw 60mA current in a given amp and another 80mA. The higher current tube could drive the output transformer further into saturation and thus change the sound. So different samples of the same brand could sound different in the same amp. It totally depends on the quality of the amp if this has an impact.
Different tube samples have various degrees of vacuum which results in different amounts of grid current. A strong driver and especially driver stages with interstage coupling tend to not react significantly to grid current. But a higher impedance driver might be influenced more by tiny differences in grid current. This is also one aspect of what people perceive as burn in. While the cathode usually is finally formed after 30-50hrs. The getter continues to capture residual gas and the vacuum slowly improves. In certain amps that leads to improvement of SQ. in others not. But it is actually the driver coping with grid current people hear rather than the tube changing.
And this is just part of the aspects of 'tube sound'. That is also the reason you might find opposing opinions about the sound of a certain tube brand
I would like to add some comments to the validity of sound description of a tube. There are many factors which influence how a certain tube will change the sound. You cannot expect to hear the same differences in different circuits. There are Single ended circuits, Push Pull Class A and Push Pull Class AB. And within these types of circuits different ways to implement them. Beyond those there are even applications which use the 300b as cathode follower which is totally different from the use as power output triode. Don't expect to be able to rely on a sound description made in a different context.
Then there is another aspect. Output tubes typically have a wide range of bias current at given operating points. That is why they usually get matched when sold in pairs. So if you want to do a meaningful evaluation of a tube from a brand you would have to get ones with the average bias current and ones with the lowest and highest in the allowed window. Depending on the amplifier this might or might not have an effect on the sound. One specimen could for example draw 60mA current in a given amp and another 80mA. The higher current tube could drive the output transformer further into saturation and thus change the sound. So different samples of the same brand could sound different in the same amp. It totally depends on the quality of the amp if this has an impact.
Different tube samples have various degrees of vacuum which results in different amounts of grid current. A strong driver and especially driver stages with interstage coupling tend to not react significantly to grid current. But a higher impedance driver might be influenced more by tiny differences in grid current. This is also one aspect of what people perceive as burn in. While the cathode usually is finally formed after 30-50hrs. The getter continues to capture residual gas and the vacuum slowly improves. In certain amps that leads to improvement of SQ. in others not. But it is actually the driver coping with grid current people hear rather than the tube changing.
And this is just part of the aspects of 'tube sound'. That is also the reason you might find opposing opinions about the sound of a certain tube brand
I thought that for these 211s most amps have to be rebiased each time one swaps tubes.
Some amps can be biased adjusted by the user, some have auto bias and some need to be rebated by a technician. But still if you re bias from a high current to a low current tube it might or might not also have an impact. A high bias tube runs at different grid voltage as a low bias tube.
For 300B though most amps are auto bias and depending on the tube sample the output transformers can easily be subjected to 20 ma different ein DC current.
All I wanted to say that there is more going on than just a tube change and it is difficult to discern which part of the change is due to the tube and which due to other factors.
q
Is this actually what we tend to look for in tubes? With these attributes it sounds like you're evaluating solid-state amplifiers.
When evaluating tubes I personally try to identify which sounds more natural or live in the room to me.
Thank you.
Is this actually what we tend to look for in tubes? With these attributes it sounds like you're evaluating solid-state amplifiers.
When evaluating tubes I personally try to identify which sounds more natural or live in the room to me.
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