We love the Auditoriums and Olympus. The Total DAC appears to be a superb piece; however, it is unknown to these ears. Ron's recommendation of bridged Reis for your big ribbons is an excellent one.
WestminsterLab Re-imagining Amplification
- Thread starter gleeds
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Very true Gary, to the extent that the difference in gain could be considered a reasonable criteria of choice, possibly counter-intuitive looking at the measures on the paper. As an example, I have been able to try Condo G700 pre with the REIs and it is so powerful, energetic, “in you face” whilst being tonally (and quite frankly on pretty much all fronts) remarkable that it wouldn’t be my personal preference. I would fully understand another audiophile drawing the exact opposite conclusion.
Equally, bridging the REIs added far more to my setup than just more power and I suspect the gain has an influence on what I would intuitively describe as the listening curve with a sweet listening spot (output volume level) dramatically shifting and now better SQ to my ears with Horizon at 63 which was not the case before bridging
I had the EAR 912, then the Lampizator Poseidon as pre-amps. Then my current Quest 2 pre-amp. The differences are immense. The Quest 2 is both neutral to the source and has all the sonic attributes of my 50+ years of tube pre-amps. If I am missing something that SOTA pre-amps have, it an error or just not part of the sonic picture by omission, not commision. Fantastic! Just as with my REIs and EAR 324 phono pre-amp, they are on 24/7, ready to play without growing my electric bill (I previously had the EAR 890, played hot and a pair of monoblocks with 12 6GB7 output tubes, power hogs and 30+ minutes to stabilize). I am unfamiliar with most SOTA pre-amps above $15K so I'm not an authority.
When I purchased my VS VR9 SE Mk2 speakers, I heard them with the REIs, the EAR 912 and the Lampizator Horizon. I never heard such instantaneous dynamics changes, especially micro changes before or since. That the voices and strings were rather thin sounding I attribute to listening to digital through the 912 (bought it for it's analog sound, C rated digital sonics even in 2004, but super dynamic)! With the Quest 2, I get that lush full bodied sound that I had with analog with digital sources.
All power and IC cabling is WL Ultra except for the SPDIF which is Masterbuilt Reference 2. The audition I heard had all Masterbuilt Ultra cabling at 2X or 3X the price of the WL Ultra.
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We ran two Quests at Axpona two years ago. It was a fun setup, but to be honest, we never really drilled down to compare one vs. two. WL makes a mono card that gets inserted into the expansion port of each preamp to make this possible. I have the cards, so when time permits, I'll pair them up again and conduct an evaluation of one unit versus two units. I suspect the additional power supply regulation may make the difference, although the Quest stereo already has one of the more sophisticated power supply designs, regardless of price. I'll ask Angus to add his thoughts here.
Very cool, Westminster with Kondo pre! I have a Trafomatic Tara 30a balanced tube pre-amp using Emission Lab tubes on the way. I expect the combination to be quite special. Agree, our in-house Horizon sounds best at unity gain, 63 setting.
I recommend Aries Cerat preamp. I also own Clarisys and they need warmer sounding gear along, Aries cerat perfectly fits the bill. I also have an experience with Westmister lab, when I ah Tannoy Westminster Royal it really sounded great toghether not so with Clarisys. As I said Clarisys need warmer and fuller sound. Some may disagree, just my point of view.
I run the REIs with a Nagra Classic, as I prefer tube preamps with SS amps.
I am still with the Quest but I did have the opportunity to try the Riviera APL01SE which was excellent. I am constantly amazed at how well the Rei pair up with so many different systems.
Zappy Daddy, I really like the Ares Cerat gear and their preamp. That said, Ron Resnick and I have had a very different experience with Clarysis (Piccolo, Studio Plus, and Auditorium) in that the Westminster (Rei and Quest) pairing was superb with all of them. Clarysis speakers have undergone various iterations with their crossover, and their tonality has evolved with each iteration, which makes absolutes hard.
We wrote earlier that we like pairing tube pre-amplifiers with the Reis. Brands such as Riviera, Trafomatic, Aires Cerat, ARC, VAC, etc, make excellent pairings with the Reis, if, within their own varied tube voicing, one desires a warmer, in some cases less dynamic sound than the Quest provides.
Interestingly, this week, one of my best customers, who owns the Westminster pairing as his primary electronics, also purchased a Trafomatic mono tube amplifier for those occasions he wants to enjoy a more romantic sound provided by the amplifiers' SV-111 single-ended tubes. The bottom line is that personal preferences dictate, as with all things high-end audio.
PS Hear This and our small cadre of retail partners offer in-home demonstrations of our products, and in many cases can provide a top tube pre-amplifier for comparison to the Quest in your system. Anyone interested, simply PM me and we will make it happen!
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Just for fun, my current home setup features a tube pre-amp from Trafomatic, a pair of Reis with Von Schweikert's, the new Rockna Signature DAC, and an Aurender N-20 server. The rack is from Hear This's new HEX series Folgenhaus audio furniture line, designed by my long-term partner John Heins and built in a craft woodshop in Iowa.
www.folgenhaus.com
www.folgenhaus.com
All ready for tomorrow's NY Audio Show!
System one will feature bridged Reis with the all-tube Trafomatic Tara 30 single-ended tube preamp powering the mighty Von Schweikert Ultra 7s—power, dynamics, and tone density. The front end consists of the latest U2x streamer from Lumin and the superb Rockna Wavedream Signature DAC. For additional variety and contrast, system two will feature the Quest pre and VAC 202 monoblock tube amplifiers driving the smaller sibling, the VR.thirty, also from Von Schweikert.
Such is the flexibility of the Westminster gear!
System one will feature bridged Reis with the all-tube Trafomatic Tara 30 single-ended tube preamp powering the mighty Von Schweikert Ultra 7s—power, dynamics, and tone density. The front end consists of the latest U2x streamer from Lumin and the superb Rockna Wavedream Signature DAC. For additional variety and contrast, system two will feature the Quest pre and VAC 202 monoblock tube amplifiers driving the smaller sibling, the VR.thirty, also from Von Schweikert.
Such is the flexibility of the Westminster gear!
nice to see the evolution from my stay at yours this past December, bloomie likes what you've done with the place
One more from the New York show.
System two: Grigio Gray VR.thirties powered by VAC, with the same front end consisting of Rockna DAC, Lumin U2-X streamer, and Trafomatic Tara 30 tube preamplifiers.
The show, being in its first year and lightly promoted, was small. Attendance was steady, though, and it was great to show our wares to the Metropolitan-area audiophiles. It's a long way from the days of the Stereophile NYC Show of yesteryear, but I applaud the organizers for putting it on and expect next year's show to draw more brands and attendees.
System two: Grigio Gray VR.thirties powered by VAC, with the same front end consisting of Rockna DAC, Lumin U2-X streamer, and Trafomatic Tara 30 tube preamplifiers.
The show, being in its first year and lightly promoted, was small. Attendance was steady, though, and it was great to show our wares to the Metropolitan-area audiophiles. It's a long way from the days of the Stereophile NYC Show of yesteryear, but I applaud the organizers for putting it on and expect next year's show to draw more brands and attendees.
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...I didn't initially realize both set-ups were in the same room, Gary. Were you pleased with the sound overall? It's a real accomplishment, IMO, if you guys got that sound well-sorted, per usual, in that arrangement. Chapeau!
Hello everyone. I purchased a pair of WML rei monoblocks at axpona and have been meaning to share my experiences as well. I have a dedicated listening room. Its a seperate building that my wife had been asking for me to fix up because it was an eye sore. When covid hit I had to shut down my business for a few months so I got to work at building a hifi room. I started attending shows and getting to acquaint myself with the local shops. I started with the speakers and ended up with pmc. Since I wasn't sure if I was going to prefer digital or analog I purchased the mola mola makuaa preamp, tambaquii dac and lupe phono stage. I was having a blast and had no buyers remorse. Wbf and the shows were both huge assets to learn about and compare components. Next up was the amplifier choice. I was using a big class ab mid fi amplifier with around 250 watts. So I attended axpona with the goal of picking a new amplifier. Its easy to spot the times that I am attending a show just for fun, or instead to make a decision on a new piece of gear. I meant business, and carefully narrowed down the show to what I felt were the two best rooms. After a little back and forth I just had to get the REI's.
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The amplifiers arrived safely and I got to work setting them up. I think it is important to note that these amplifiers are built like a Swiss watch. I dont mean unnecessarily delicate or fiddely, however I feel that anyone who receives these monoblocks via air freight needs to give the amps a day or two to settle. The first day they didn't sound like what I heard at the show. Day 2 they sounded better and by day 3 they really hit their stride. This seemed to be a one time experience and they have been stable and reliable day I and day out. I am aware that Angus claims that these amps have an unusually quick warm up time and I have no reason to disagree. Just be warned that it won't be the same for your other gear. I had read articles about my makua preamp, stating it has a long warm up time. Some say 3 days, others just leave it on all the time. I never heard a difference to be honest. I wrote this up as obsessive audiophiles(takes one to know one lol). With the rei in place, I absolutely hear a difference in how warmed up the Makua is. It was a humbling experience and I think that can explain a lot of arguments on forums. You may not have a system that has enough resolution to hear this or that. I certainly didn't. I do most of my listening on the weekend so I just turn the makua on Thursday and then flip the amps on 30-60 minutes beforehand. So yes, the amps are good after 30-45 minutes, but the added resolution may have you turn other gear on to warm up well before that. I can also say that the amp seems to play nice in the sandbox with my mola mola preamp. The black and silver match well which is an added bonus.
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To be honest I didn't care that these amps were class a. I am amplifier type agnostic. I also was fine picking out an amplifier of any size. I had the room and if I fell in love with a 300lb monster amp, well that was fine. Thinking back to axpona, the small size of the amplifiers made me a bit nervous. It seemed impossible that these "little" guys were sounding this big. That concern ended entirely when a close friend came over to hear the new amps. He likes listen to music at concert levels, so I put on 2009 dave matthews live in Europe. Ants marching. I like a couple Dmb songs but usually not enough to sit through an entire album. I have to say that this song, through these amps is wild. It starts with nothing more than the crowd roaring and a steady slam on the snare drum, building tension before the bass guitar kicks in. Now, to be honest I knew this intro was great. We are all guilty of having a few killer tracks to wow a friend. I had used this track many times before. Before the REI amps though, I always had the volume high for the intro, but I would have my remote ready In hand ready to halve the volume once the band kicked in in it's entirety. It became an assault on the senses. The solos seemed nonsensical and harsh. With the new amps in place however, the tonality was so pitch perfect, and the instruments better placed, that the volume could be left up and the whole song was enjoyed. Don't get me wrong, it's still a crazy solo, but what the performer was trying to convey was able to be understood and enjoyed.
This held true for classical as well. Thank God. If the amps couldn't do big symphony well then that is a deal breaker for sure. I suspect that the list is short of amps that excel at large complex music. Audio shows are mostly trio's and female voices. I want to yell out, play Paranoid Android and we will see if you can sort things out! Playing some close mic song of Eva cassidy is cheating. But i digress. Just as with DMB live, the REI were able to handle large scale music with both a large dynamic impact but also having things still organized and not fall apart. This balancing act is obviously achieved in my listening room with Max Richters first attempt at his re imagining of the four seasons. Gary should ship this album with each pair of amps. Lol. I still have a great deal to learn about what each hifi component is supposed to contribute. Tonality, spaciousness, detail, dynamics and such. If I had to answer as to what these amplifiers brought to my system, i would need to split music in to large and small scale. For large scale, the amplifiers brought life into the music. To abstract? OK ok. Think big dynamic swings but again, things remain orderly. Less confusion and wince factor to obscure the only thing that I care about. That is engagement.
I have to get kiddo off to school now. I can swing back later to add some thoughts on small scale music such as trios and singer song writer type stuff.
This held true for classical as well. Thank God. If the amps couldn't do big symphony well then that is a deal breaker for sure. I suspect that the list is short of amps that excel at large complex music. Audio shows are mostly trio's and female voices. I want to yell out, play Paranoid Android and we will see if you can sort things out! Playing some close mic song of Eva cassidy is cheating. But i digress. Just as with DMB live, the REI were able to handle large scale music with both a large dynamic impact but also having things still organized and not fall apart. This balancing act is obviously achieved in my listening room with Max Richters first attempt at his re imagining of the four seasons. Gary should ship this album with each pair of amps. Lol. I still have a great deal to learn about what each hifi component is supposed to contribute. Tonality, spaciousness, detail, dynamics and such. If I had to answer as to what these amplifiers brought to my system, i would need to split music in to large and small scale. For large scale, the amplifiers brought life into the music. To abstract? OK ok. Think big dynamic swings but again, things remain orderly. Less confusion and wince factor to obscure the only thing that I care about. That is engagement.
I have to get kiddo off to school now. I can swing back later to add some thoughts on small scale music such as trios and singer song writer type stuff.
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I'm not one to promote (first time) as no one on this forum has exactly the same gear, room, ears etc. BUT @tictocdoc's experience closely match mine. I received my REI monos and Quest with MasterBuilt PCs and a MB XL IC and KBL IC from @gleeds and Rob/Destination Sound Group early Summer but honestly the break-in and readjusting subs took me until now to what I think is the 'full monty" from the upgrade.
The stark improvement was rather immediate but now is over the top IMO. Westminster Labs products are top echelon, worth the cost and should be trialed if considering change/upgrade. I believe the Quest preamp was the biggest contributer and this through changing only one piece at a time and moving on only after evaluation of before/after because of irrational hope to keep previous gear.
A side note: Before making this change I was planning on a speaker change from my Wilson Audio X1v3 but now am content to forestall that as it was as a "speaker upgrade" as @gleeds foretold. Likewise, streaming Classical is 95% of our listening.
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