Is Lampizator a serious company? Mafia practices.

[Kuoppis]

This is an open question to WBF members based on a disturbing experience today:

I had agreed on a home demo of a Poseidon DAC with the Lampizator company. The DAC was supposed to be delivered today. We had agreed that the DAC would be delivered to my home for a in-system demo. For this, I had given the company my home address.

So, in the late afternoon a bulky Polish guy shows up at my door with the DAC, but instead of just delivering it he demanded for me to pay for the delivery in cash. This had not been agreed. After I refused to pay, he drove away with the DAC. This was kind of disconcerting. When I inquired about the shady behavior with company founder Lukasz Fikus, he appeared to be ok with it. Which left me even more puzzled.

Checking on their prior experiences with some Lampi owners I know, several responded that they have experienced some weird stuff with the company.

Any other strange or unwelcome experiences with Lampizator on the forum?

 

[thedudeabides]

So you were going to get the dac without any up front deposit or earnest money for audition correct? And a big Polish guy, who was a Lampi employee, personally delivered the dac to your house. Not any kind of regular shipping service. Did you also order any pizza and wings with the dac? Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Kuoppis]

By all means, no resisting needed. You much more point to some of the difficulties.

So no, the bully guy was not a Lampizator employee. As the company rep told me earlier, the delivery guy was just a guy he knew and who occasionally does him some favors. He arrived in an unmarked van, no Lampizator signage, no delivery company signage (like DHL, FedEx etc.). Basically, what you would call a “White Van Man”. Just a guy with a van.

As to the demo, I didn’t even ask for it. The company offered it proactively, as I said I’m not going to buy a close to €30K product w/o first hearing it. As I’m attending the High End show in Munich in May, I actually inquired whether I could audition it at the show. But the company was not sure whether anyone would be going to display it. I guess the problem is they’re probably too cheap to invest in a proper dealer network.

What poses a challenge, is a company handing out my home address to some random bulky guy and trying to use him as a money collector. Especially, if that was not agreed beforehand. Hence the reference to businesses using similar methods . And I would never pay a delivery guy, as that could be the segway to all kinds of problems.

Audiophiles typically are kind of affluent people, or at least if someone is able to cough up several ten K for a single audio toy, it could be argued for that to be the case. Hence, handing out my private address details to some random third party I have no way of tracking down is problematic. Trying to use the same as a money collector for not prior agreed “fees” points to entirely different kinds of business models. The effect was even stronger, as the white van man did neither really speak the local language or English. “XX Euros” was the only thing he could say.

As I understand, Lukasz has this new Poland-based guy who is ‘handling’ prospective customers in central EU. My experience begs the question, whether that guy did work in used car sales or some other type of business before.

Well, caveat emptor I guess.

 

[Mark212121]

Hello @Kuoppis. I see you are in Germany. I'm from England, UK. I recently purchased a Poseidon DAC. I didn't get a home demo, but went to the UK distributor, G Point Audio. The proprietor, Greg couldn't have been nicer or more accommodating. I received excellent service from Greg, and the Poseidon is a superb DAC; in my opinion, it is an upgrade over my dCS Rossini Apex player.

 

[Kuoppis]

Hey Mark, good to hear you had better luck. But after the money collector experience I’m not keen to use any Lampizator products. What also posed a challenge was there not being any proper reviews, two years after launch. Just some kind of cousin lamenting but not really reviewing it, appears to be a tight knit network.

Maybe it’s just the new guy who still needs a bit of adjusting to his new type of business.

What I found puzzling though, is that the company could not say whether anyone would be showing it at the world’s largest audio show. Business must be slow I guess.

 

[Mark212121]

It is strange that Lampizator didn't know their product would be at the Munich show. They seem to have sold quite a lot of their products, particularly the Horizon and Horizon 360. You only have to look at the Taiko Audio thread and the "Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons" thread (plus others). There seems to be quite a lot of love for Lampizator on this forum, certainly in the USA and in Europe too.

I should have said I am sorry that you had a bad experience with Lampizator; it sounded a bit upsetting.

 

[Kuoppis]

Hi Mark, thank you for the kind words. It was indeed upsetting and really strange. Otherwise I would not have posted the question.

What Lukasz told me was that he was aware of three companies using their products for demos (probably the top-of-the-line Horizons). But he could not say whether one was the Poseidon, as they’d not be exhibiting themselves. I was obviously inquiring about the DAC I was interested in. But again, I find it rather strange, that a quite new product does not garner sufficient interest to be shown in Munich. That raises some questions, as also a few have been offered at a significant discount on AM and Agon after only a very short time of use.

And I guess sales of any audio products costing as much as a middle class car are most likely rather moderate.

 

[ssfas]

This is an open question to WBF members based on a disturbing experience today:

Just sounds like a bit of miscommunication.

Mafia practises are you get beaten up if you don't pay.

My understanding is that private couriers are commonly used in Eastern Europe, they are more reliable, less chance of damage and much cheaper than UPS/DHL. The last piece I had delivered was an artwork from Tallinn (Estonia) to London, it is pretty large and fragile, the artist I bought it from put it in the van in Tallinn and it stayed there until it arrived outside my house in London 2 days later.

How much did the courier want, anyway?

 

[Kuoppis]

Mafia practises are you get beaten up if you don't pay.

Yes, that’s my worry too. Would knee-capping be the escalation path in this delivery model?

To be honest, I rather deal with a company I know. And where I can identify the driver and send an e-mail to escalate if something’s not right with the delivery.

 

[ssfas]

Yes, that’s my worry too. Would knee-capping be the escalation path in this delivery model?

To be honest, I rather deal with a company I know. And where I can identify the driver and send an e-mail to escalate if something’s not right with the delivery.

As I said, it was probably miscommunication. They probably just forgot to tell you that you had to pay the driver. It was probably only 30 or €40. If they sent it by UPS or DHL, the freight and insurance required (because they break things) could easily have been €200.

If something is travelling international air freight, sure, send it by DHL or UPS. It will get thrown around probably seven or eight sorting centres and airports. It will turn up outside your house delivered by a man in a brown or orange jacket with a scanning machine.

For a large, fragile item sent inside Europe by road, it is far safer to use a door-to-door courier.

I have been provided with items for home demo from Scotland to London, which is about 400 miles, and the deal is that you pay the shipping cost.

 

[Kuoppis]

This has nothing to do with an actual fee, that’s completely irrelevant.

The problem is, that I let a guy into my house because he was carrying a box which said Lampizator on it. And I did it, as this is what we had agreed with the company. And then the bulky guy started to demand some cash payment from me. Inside my house.

I really do not make any concessions regarding my personal safety or the safety of my family.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

In 15 years of doing business with nice audiophiles I never had a worse experience than this man, with no class, no manners, no money, just when he couldnt wrestle from us thousands of euros of discount started to threaten me personally to go nuclear on me and destroy me. I saw many con artists in life and I know one when I see one. I wouldnt sell any of my products to him even at double price.

 

[Kuoppis]

Well, I guess this tells it all.

Con artist in how exactly? Not agreeing to pay something to a stranger in my house, that had not been agreed to? Kindly explain Lukasz.

And yes, I really wonder why anyone in their sane mind would do business with you with this kind of operating practices. I am absolutely sure this will cost you more than the loss of a sale, as it’s totally inacceptable.

I’m also happy to share that I indeed received an offer of 17K for the Poseidon. That was the basis for agreeing to the demo. It might be a difficult sale for the full price, as Lampis tend to drop in value really fast. Guess I’m a good negotiator then, if others agree to pay full price.

I’ve received private responses through other channels, that several friends have had some bad experiences as well. But of course they cannot comment here out of fear of being blacklisted by Lukasz (as Lukasz wrote me that I’m globally blacklisted, as I dared to complain). This is in case they need some repairs or service in the future. Totally understandable.

Obviously Lukasz is totally fine with the approach. Just business as usual, every company has their operating policies.

Thank you for verifying the events Lukasz. That is all that was required.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Yes we totally stand by everything we did and we have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to hde, we only regret that we ever talked to you wasting our time, instead of dealing with good people as ususal. Good luck with you behaving like this with other companies. Good luck.

 

[Argonaut]

Mods … Please shut this down … before real damage is done , if it hasn’t already !

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

As I said, it was probably miscommunication. They probably just forgot to tell you that you had to pay the driver. It was probably only 30 or €40. If they sent it by UPS or DHL, the freight and insurance required (because they break things) could easily have been €200.

If something is travelling international air freight, sure, send it by DHL or UPS. It will get thrown around probably seven or eight sorting centres and airports. It will turn up outside your house delivered by a man in a brown or orange jacket with a scanning machine.

For a large, fragile item sent inside Europe by road, it is far safer to use a door-to-door courier.

I have been provided with items for home demo from Scotland to London, which is about 400 miles, and the deal is that you pay the shipping cost.

We informed CLEARLY that for a saturday home delivery with carrying and a 100 km detour there will be a fee of 50 Euro. We have sms to back it. A free demo of 29 k product without deposit and with weekend home delivery - thats a HUGE FAVOR.

 

[Kuoppis]

Absolutely Lukasz, the day of delivery I received a What’s App stating: Pay the driver xyz. I was puzzled, as this was not agreed. So I didn’t reply.

It was not: Is it ok, or can we agree to, just: Pay.

Pay or else?

 

[John T]

All of this over paying a driver 50 euros? For that kind of service? Call me confused...

 

[Kuoppis]

You’re absolutely right John, the negligible amount has nothing to do with it. It’s the principle.

And even the principle would not be worth it, if it would not bare a risk: If I agree to pay for something that has not been agreed to, what guarantees do I have that there’s not suddenly ist a price hike from 17K to 22K after I agree to the deal?

I’m sure Lampis are great products, but they’re just not for me.

All in all, an a bit unfortunate event.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

All of this over paying a driver 50 euros? For that kind of service? Call me confused...

And call me MAFIA