State-of-the-Art Digital

Sorry, but you just wrote: "PCM technology was invented by Denon in the mid-1970s" . And this is not true, as anyone can read in the link you supplied.

I referred to Reeves because he submitted a patent to the use of PCM for carrying sound in 1943 - not just academic work. But academic work can be invention!

BTW NHK is the Japan Broadcasting Corporation, not Denon. And they developed the first PCM recorder in 1967, as said in the link you provided.

Invention is not subjective, it is an objective fact. PCM means pulse code modulation, not "digital 8 channel recorder".
We could debate this till the cows come home, but I stand by what I said. PCM as a technology for digital recording was first invented by Denon, whose early recordings were released on the first compact discs that I bought in the early 1980s. I am not talking about academic papers on PCM.
 
We could debate this till the cows come home, but I stand by what I said.
PCM as a technology for digital recording was first invented by Denon, whose early recordings were released on the first compact discs that I bought in the early 1980s. I am not talking about academic papers on PCM.

No problem, I am not debating. You have provided the link that says you are not right ... We can return to listening to the nice recordings you are suggesting!

" In 1967, the first PCM recorder was developed by NHK's research facilities in Japan.[21] The 30 kHz 12-bit device used a compander (similar to DBX Noise Reduction) to extend the dynamic range, and stored the signals on a video tape recorder. In 1969, NHK expanded the system's capabilities to 2-channel stereo and 32 kHz 13-bit resolution. In January 1971, using NHK's PCM recording system, engineers at Denon recorded the first commercial digital recordings.[note 1][21]

In 1972, Denon unveiled the first 8-channel digital recorder, the DN-023R, which used a 4-head open reel broadcast video tape recorder to record in 47.25 kHz, 13-bit PCM audio"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Holmz
Huh? Wasn't posting about social context but to your comment, nothing makes any sense anymore. We live in an upside-down world and I don't believe anything would suprise me at this point.
 
Last edited:
I personally consider the inclusion of automated emergency braking and adaptive headlights to be a quantum leap in automobile safety technology over the last 10 years resulting in a reduction of injuries and fatalities when employed. In my book, that qualifies as "genuine innovation". I now have a vehicle that includes both features and I feel "safer", for myself and others, when driving.
Ah no, that is not “innovation in the auto industry over the last 10 years”.
The antilock braking systems were invented for the aircraft/aerospace and rail, a hundred years ago.
It may have been considered a quantum leap 100 years ago, and coincidentally actual “quantum mechanics” is also 100 years old this year.


The Citroen DS had the turning headlights over 60 years ago, and they were banned as being unsafe in the US.


The only thing that is a quantum leap of auto manufacturers and the government, was collusion in defining them as unsafe.
The company had to take superior lighting systems that they had developed and “dumb them down” for North America. The reason why is quite revealing…

Citroën began importing cars into Canada and the United States in the late 1960s which have three basic headlamps: standard low-beam; standard high-beam and high-beam headlamps of much higher intensity, which also turn with the steering wheel to allow you to look around comers as you drive. Anyone driving with these lamps is instantly amazed. They simply make so much sense.

When American auto-makers saw the Citroën lighting system and saw the potential for such an innovation in their own cars, they acted instantly. They had them banned from North America and had them made illegal. It is in the code book: “No private vehicle may have an external light whose direction is controlled from the interior of the car.”

The law was aimed at prohibiting external spotlights, but Citroën’s system defied the law also. The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration tested the Citroën system, made a few comments about its superiority and then banned it! The agency asked the U.S. auto industry how long it would take them to develop such a lighting system. They said not until 1975.

Whenever the US makes such a ruling, it applies as well in Canada as Canada has a habit of rubber-stamping the US rules to allow for efficiency in manufacturing in Canadian auto industry branch plants. It ended up that as of Jan. 1, 1971, any new Citroën brought into Canada or the U.S. had to have a modified straight-ahead lighting system with no covering shield.
 
We could debate this till the cows come home, but I stand by what I said. PCM as a technology for digital recording was first invented by Denon, whose early recordings were released on the first compact discs that I bought in the early 1980s. I am not talking about academic papers on PCM.
Is PCM used for recording or for playback?
 
Is there another hobby where so many people constantly change their gear? When people don't end up owning what they purchase for very long, I'm not sure what sales indicate.
The guitar community is constantly moving gear around. I play bass and i've bought and sold about 5 basses in 5 years. I've kept the two i have now for the last 2 years. Also bought and sold heaps of effect pedals in that time.
 
Is PCM used for recording or for playback?

PCM is a way of transmitting and storing analog information in digital form. As such it is used for recording.

The reverse process is called Pulse Code Demodulation (PCDM) - it converts the digital information in analog signals and is used for playback.

In fact , we often simply refer to ADCs and DACs and forget the academics of it ... ;)
 
Is there another hobby where so many people constantly change their gear? When people don't end up owning what they purchase for very long,
I think this is a big assumption around which we have no statistical evidence. I bet the box swappers tend to be the most vocal, because they have the most stuff to talk about.

I am not at all confident it reflects the median audiophile.
 
PCM is a way of transmitting and storing analog information in digital form. As such it is used for recording.

The reverse process is called Pulse Code Demodulation (PCDM) - it converts the digital information in analog signals and is used for playback.

In fact , we often simply refer to ADCs and DACs and forget the academics of it ... ;)
If we are to mention it...
The very first digital "of sorts" recording and digital system is actually
The Mayan Khipu... knots on a string method.
Also used to jot down songs...

Not really decoded yet. But quite simpl a Multi-nary (word pun on binary) way of storing information.
Hence in essence - Digital


bmimages_00421813004_superres.jpg




On the note of digital. First occurance...

You are all wrong.

The year was 1926. Inventor: Western Electric...
ge?
Google it. The patent is from 1903...

Paper strip running at a set speed, punctured to a rhythm.
That sounds like laser/cd medium. but more stone age...
Duh huuu!!!That is 5 bits people... 1926...IE 4000hz recording span..
 
Last edited:
Or has the best marketing team shilling for them. :rolleyes:

There is a lot of talk about shills but I have never heard of or seen anyone getting paid and feel this talk of shills is largely a myth started by people who want to denigrate a particular brand they don't favor. I believe it is also rooted in times at jealousy directed at companies that have done well by working hard and being innovative.

Ultimately, I think the best products stand the test of time in our hobby. Following a product introduction more and more people eventually get to hear the product for themselves and decide. Word gets out.
 
If we are to mention it...
The very first digital "of sorts" recording and digital system is actually
The Mayan Khipu... knots on a string method.
(...) On the note of digital. First occurance...

You are all wrong.

The year was 1926. Inventor: Western Electric...
ge?
Google it. The patent is from 1903...

Paper strip running at a set speed, punctured to a rhythm.
That sounds like laser/cd medium. but more stone age...
Duh huuu!!!That is 5 bits people... 1926...IE 4000hz recording span..

Yes, there are great examples of pre-digital electronics digital conversion. The first nuclear spectra were obtained with an electromechanical ‘kick-sorter’ using with small metal balls, similar to a pin ball machine. The spring was pushed with a force proportional to the energy of the particle.

Since 1950 an ADC is used to do it.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Imperial
Yes, there are great examples of pre-digital electronics digital conversion. The first nuclear spectra were obtained with an electromechanical ‘kick-sorter’ using with small metal balls, similar to a pin ball machine. The spring was pushed with a force proportional to the energy of the particle.

Since 1950 an ADC is used to do it.
Sweet, but actually ..
it is since 1853.,,.

They could ADC in 1853,,, but DA in 1926..theoretically in 1903.

I will elaborate…
They could ‘record’ but at replay it was not ‘intellible’ meaning. Not Good enough.
But in 1926 they recorded and it was played back as understandable Word. And the person was recognicable… so Fidelity was now possible…
Quiz a feat. Actually.
It was discovered then .. in 1926 that the needed frequency range was from 100hz to 4300 hz to assure that a person could be identified in the recording…

IF we look at wax cylinders at the time the frequency span was 250hz to 2600hz…

So it was a paradimgal shift…

On a side note… first vinyl was ca 1930…for sale in a store.
Or 1898 (shellac - same wax as cylinders but now as a ‘disc) they discovered the method..
developed it and started to experiment
 
Last edited:
There is a lot of talk about shills but I have never heard of or seen anyone getting paid and feel this talk of shills is largely a myth started by people who want to denigrate a particular brand they don't favor.

As far as I see it no one claims he is 100% independent and fully unbiased in the high-end business. People assume their preferences and friendships, I can't see how this can be considered shilling.

I believe it is also rooted in times at jealousy directed at companies that have done well by working hard and being innovative.

Yes, some people assume denigrating particular brands and part of the industry as a crusade. We got used to it.

Ultimately, I think the best products stand the test of time in our hobby. Following a product introduction more and more people eventually get to hear the product for themselves and decide. Word gets out.

Very true. Sometimes it is unfair to recent and excellent products, but many consumers want something with an history.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee
There is a lot of talk about shills but I have never heard of or seen anyone getting paid and feel this talk of shills is largely a myth started by people who want to denigrate a particular brand they don't favor. I believe it is also rooted in times at jealousy directed at companies that have done well by working hard and being innovative.

Ultimately, I think the best products stand the test of time in our hobby. Following a product introduction more and more people eventually get to hear the product for themselves and decide. Word gets out.
At least we always know your agenda Lee !
 
  • Like
Reactions: lordcloud
What agenda is that?
Sell overpriced Hi-Fi equipment with hyperbole ! Preferably brands you somenhow represent. The higher the price, the better. A 2 million dollar speaker will soon be here ! :eek: No point of diminishing return i Hi-Fi, just pile a extra million on that sales price, we have to pay for marketing. I commend you for being so transparet.:)
 
Sell overpriced Hi-Fi equipment with hyperbole ! Preferably brands you somenhow represent. The higher the price, the better. A 2 million dollar speaker will soon be here ! :eek: No point of diminishing return i Hi-Fi, just pile a extra million on that sales price, we have to pay for marketing. I commend you for being so transparet.:)

A few observations:

1. I don't represent any brands.
2. I present a good argument on the Law of Diminishing Returns.
3. I have frequently stated that there are many examples where lower-priced gear outperforms.
4. I said in my TAS video that I welcomed a $2 million speaker as I think it could set new playback quality and it would be fun to hear that. Would you turn down a ride in a Porsche Cup car? I didn't.
5. I get enthusiastic about gear that performs well.
6. What is over-priced? How do you judge that?
 
It is curious that a few speakers on the market before 2010 had a cost around $1million. This only become a concern for some people loving the diminishing returns dogma after a manufacturer make one approaching this price that successfully sold 70 pairs ... ;)

Currently we have more than fifteen speakers costing over $800k.
 
It is curious that a few speakers on the market before 2010 had a cost around $1million. This only become a concern for some people loving the diminishing returns dogma after a manufacturer make one approaching this price that successfully sold 70 pairs ... ;)

Currently we have more than fifteen speakers costing over $800k.
Wilson's WAMM or Nudell's IRS?
 
Is there another hobby where so many people constantly change their gear? When people don't end up owning what they purchase for very long, I'm not sure what sales indicate.
What makes you think so many audiophiles change gear with great regularity? I know plenty who don't. Maybe those who frequent forums such as this? I personally don't. It's a mere matter of finding something one really likes (and can afford). Of course there are people who are constantly on the lookout, eternally dissatisfied, but it's always seemed to me this has nothing to do with being a music lover, those people tend to be the exact same in other aspects of life. What I do consider an essential part of happiness is curiosity and the ability to learn. I do love to spend time with audiophile buddies, go to shows, hear new stuff. Having said that, at the end of the day, the basis of my buying decisions is not an itch, but relevance. Something would have to make me listen to music (and I mean attentively, I try to avoid background noise altogether) even more than the 20-25 hours per week I manage to get in, or with even less listening fatigue (that would be tough, even when I listen for 7 hours straight, those tend to be the days or nights into the wee hours when I'm tempted to put on yet another album). Are all differences we hear improvements? Relevant improvements? Much of what I'm hearing seem like side steps to me. To me, what you're touching on IS what I consider relevant and an improvement: what one enjoys on a daily basis, holds on to, and would not want to change is the very definition of "better".

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing