Regenerator are different. They are impacted by the power from the wall and the power cord.
Battery Power
- Thread starter Kingrex
- Start date
Surely. But the PSAudio use a linear power supply to create DC and re-generate the mains from this DC. In principle they could be operated by batteries.
I envy people having 110Vac mains. I could easily built a power regenerator coupling two high power class D amplifiers driven in antiphase. But 230Vac needs a much higher voltage swing. Some of my equipment can be easily we-wired to 110Vac, but it seems a crazy solution.
See: https://www.soundimports.eu/en/icep...Qy7CuLrb3pKJsD9RVulsU9LV5kLjFYccaAs1bEALw_wcB
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I would like to know how to build up amps with parts. I still want to make a swarm one day. I need 4 robust amps. On a retired farmers budget.
Are you addressing amplifiers for general audio, subwoofers or for power regenerators?
I have tried it using a PC software generator coupled to a USB sound box, similar to one I am showing in other posts in this thread. It could drive the amplifiers directly, but in order to avoid ground loops I inserted a Jensen insulating transformer. The nice thing is that we can generate harmonics and create our own distortions. SpectraPLUS-SC - IMO a very versatile audio packages for audio analysis. The photos I have shown are however measured with a free package that can also be used for this purpose - Soundcard Scope . The site is now down, we can download it from https://scope.software.informer.com/download/#downloading - at your own risk, surely!
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In some sense - currently I use a Nordost QB8 and either Nordost power cables, or an Hubbell hospital grade power strip with Ching Cheng power cables or a Furutech home built power strip. All straight from the wall.
I use the Nordost Qkore6 grounding system - but as I said elsewhere when comparing equipment I take it out of the system. I want to carry comparisons without the addition of selected noise ...
Talking about hot rotting equipment. If someone were to take a Torus RM20 and direct wire out from the transformer taps to a nice power strip, that would be a nice setup. You could place the core to the side and use a 10 foot cable to connect. Seriously, #10 solid thhn, hand twist the hot and Neutral. Sleve those and the 10 ground into a tech flex sleeve. That would work fine for a cable.
You know what makes for a good, reversible connection in a tight box like a home made power strip. Get a copper ground bar. No tin. Use a metal saw and cut off 1 terminal hole. Overcut to ensure you have the whole terminal. Clean the edges with a file. All smooth. Deox the whole thing. Use that to clamp a single 10 to the lead in the power strip. You could also cut off 4 or so terminals. Now you have 1 hole for power in and 3 to go to duplex. Your basically making a drilled and tapped bus bar. Use teflon plumbers tape. Then a wrap of vinyl tape.
You know what makes for a good, reversible connection in a tight box like a home made power strip. Get a copper ground bar. No tin. Use a metal saw and cut off 1 terminal hole. Overcut to ensure you have the whole terminal. Clean the edges with a file. All smooth. Deox the whole thing. Use that to clamp a single 10 to the lead in the power strip. You could also cut off 4 or so terminals. Now you have 1 hole for power in and 3 to go to duplex. Your basically making a drilled and tapped bus bar. Use teflon plumbers tape. Then a wrap of vinyl tape.
Outside post 193, I see advantages to modifying a rack mount transformer. I'm basically turning it into a wallmount installation.
In a remote mount, You can use better duplex.
I also see benefits in moving the noise from the core away from gear. I had to move one away from a 45 SET to a horn at one home. Why not get the core 4 to 6 feet from the rack. Bring a quality power strip behind the rach that is tapped off the transformer.
I'm all talk so to speak. I do have a nice power strip behind my rack and my Torus off to the side. But I did like most everyone and plugged into an outlet.
I would not fault anyone swapping out duplex in the unit. Thats doable. Would take a skilled hand. But can be done.
I listened to an amazingly well tuned wilson/D'agostino/DCS/Shunyata Everest system recently. The owner has 4 Tesla Powerwall in the garage. I asked if he could disconnect from the utility and play on just battery. Not a problem he said. With about 30 seconds of fiddling on his phone, he was able to activate the transfer switch, disconnect the utility and run the house on battery power only. I thought I heard a slight difference. My friend Bob said he could not. Another friend though he heard something too.
At a minimum, a system run off a battery was almost indistinguishable from the street. This system from what I understand only has 1 circuit to the rack. I don't know if its a 12 or a 10. For a single circuit feeding a Shunyate Everest feeding an entire system with a D'Agostino stereo amp, it was pretty darn effortless. I was not hearing a lack of power. The subs in the room were on a standard wall outlet that is most definitely #14 shared across the wall. 2 subs and a TV on the circuit.
I am not sure how all this impact the battery vs utility equation. I don't know if a system feed with multiple large gauge wire circuits would reveal more of the difference between battery and utility. A powerwall has an output of around 40 to 100 Amps depending on the model. With a 200A service and 4 on the wall, I assume these are powerwall 1 and all 4 are providing around 160 amps of power to the service. The branch wire and 20A CB are the limitation to power.
This makes me more interested in putting together a 3000W inverter. The batteries I am looking at have about a peak output of 40A. I would still go for power from the road before a battery. But if you were in a situation where the power to a rack was insufficient and you were in a building that could not be updated with new wiring, a Battery seems to be an option that may have very little limitations compared to the wall. Provided the right batteries and inverter is used.
It also says, if you are on utility power and want to get off the grid thinking its cleaner to not be on it. I don't see adding powerwall as a solution. If I can't really tell a difference and one friend who I trust hears no difference, then the gain of adding $60K in electrical energy storage is not the answer for audio. It is the answer to poor utility power and backup power in blackouts.
At a minimum, a system run off a battery was almost indistinguishable from the street. This system from what I understand only has 1 circuit to the rack. I don't know if its a 12 or a 10. For a single circuit feeding a Shunyate Everest feeding an entire system with a D'Agostino stereo amp, it was pretty darn effortless. I was not hearing a lack of power. The subs in the room were on a standard wall outlet that is most definitely #14 shared across the wall. 2 subs and a TV on the circuit.
I am not sure how all this impact the battery vs utility equation. I don't know if a system feed with multiple large gauge wire circuits would reveal more of the difference between battery and utility. A powerwall has an output of around 40 to 100 Amps depending on the model. With a 200A service and 4 on the wall, I assume these are powerwall 1 and all 4 are providing around 160 amps of power to the service. The branch wire and 20A CB are the limitation to power.
This makes me more interested in putting together a 3000W inverter. The batteries I am looking at have about a peak output of 40A. I would still go for power from the road before a battery. But if you were in a situation where the power to a rack was insufficient and you were in a building that could not be updated with new wiring, a Battery seems to be an option that may have very little limitations compared to the wall. Provided the right batteries and inverter is used.
It also says, if you are on utility power and want to get off the grid thinking its cleaner to not be on it. I don't see adding powerwall as a solution. If I can't really tell a difference and one friend who I trust hears no difference, then the gain of adding $60K in electrical energy storage is not the answer for audio. It is the answer to poor utility power and backup power in blackouts.
Great to have factual data on this fascinating subject. Do you have information and technical details on the inverters used by Tesla in the Powerwall?
Non at all. Another client did the same near me. Used some other battery bank. Never heard back.
I was also told battery systems in a box don't sound good upon close compare the power from a filter plugged into the wall.
I wanted to report my experience with the Yeti reference v2 2000W balanced isolation transformer / power conditioner, in combination with my battery power. Didn’t know where to post this so here we are since it is relevant to battery power.
In terms of context, I built my own 48v battery powered power source with a large inverter. All my hifi system is plugged on the battery power system I built. I’m using a QSAL Ultimatum power cable from the inverter, and a Schnerzinger grid protector as well (on the battery pack, not on the grid, just to be clear).
I tried a number of power conditioners which I put in the battery power chain (ie battery pack > inverter > QSAL Ultimatum > power conditioner + Schnerzinger GP… i.e., the following were tested):
1) Airlink 2000VA
2) Airlink 3000VA
3) Puritan 156 (had 2 of them)
4) Ansuz Mainz C2
5) Isotek Sigma v3
6) Isotek Titan v5 (this one is only for power amps)
7) AQ Niagara (different models)
8) Isol-8 (forgot the model)
9) Connected Fidelity AC2K reference (this one is cryo)
10) Yeti reference v2 2000W (this one has 8 custom outlets, more on that later, and is the heaviest with 55kg/120 lbs)
11) Custom made Toroidy Supreme (4000VA if I recall properly) - highest grade specs they could sell - balanced isolation transformer
12) PS Audio
13) custom made/Mundorf based DC blockers
For passive power distributor, I was using a Cardas Nautilus.
Bottom line, notable units are:
1) Airlink has very good VFM since they’re so cheap
2) Isotek Titan v5 is fast, punchy, very dynamic and dramatic with low noise floor but could be over the top in some systems - also it’s limited to power amps
3) AC2K is balanced and musical (the one I tried did have a QSA red fuse installed)
4) Yeti reference v2 2000W sounds - by a margin in my system - the biggest, most substantial and “beefy”, more planted, confident sounding, lower noise, less harsh/hash, AND fully fleshed out top to bottom, with strong bass. Just a full, substantial, well developed sound. Effortless, and more importantly, it’s very musical. You don’t think about hifi at all. You just focus on the music. Coincidentally, alpha audio (link below) noticed and wrote the same. The Yeti has a lot of calmness and authority, decreases hardness, and has a very good, organic and European (from the ground up) type of tonal balance. Not in ANY way dry, thin, cold, harsh, analytical etc. I think SQ impact has to do with common mode or similar type of noise - but I’m not an expert on the why.
Apparently, the version I got is the latest and the founder (Thijs) told me he was able to slash the output impedance by a factor of 5. Also, in this latest version, he doesn’t use a fuse anymore to decrease further resistance (he uses something else instead).
Inside there’s a huge medical grade custom made transformer, but what I noticed is that while almost all of the others had toroid transformers, this one was more of an “old school”, square type transformer inside, similar to what you would see in a tube amp. I don’t know the name of those types of transformers or what are the pros and cons, but this was the only one that was like this with the Titan v5 (this one uses a number of smaller square transformers inside… vs a huge one in the Yeti… which weighs about 120 lbs in total).
Also inside, I can see Thijs from Yeti has put unusually heavy gauge cables. A nice touch.
Lastly, the 8 power outlets are custom made of pure copper or silver (an option) and they grip very tightly, in a good way, as we all know that outlet tightness is actually very important for SQ.
Now, on top of being the top performer, at least in my own system, here’s an additional key feature as far as I’m concerned: the Yeti has 8 outlets. Because of that, you don’t need a power cable + power distributor anymore. You can connect all components straight to the Yeti.
Why does it matter? You’re basically decreasing the number of wires and connection points which is then likely to increase the SQ of the whole system since you now have less cables, less outlets, less screws.. etc etc. Some of those conditioners or balanced isolation transformers have only a couple of outlets which means you need a power distributor.
In my view, every time power goes through a cable, a connection point, an outlet etc there’s a loss in sound quality. But with the Yeti it’s straight connections of everything from the Yeti which in my system definitely contributed to an additional boost in SQ, since I was able to remove a Cardas Clear beyond XL + a Cardas Nautilus power distributor. No need anymore. Plus the outlets are just very good quality and for context I own and tested the following outlets:
1) Furutech NCF rhodium and gold
2) Schnerzinger
3) QSA Gold (!)
4) Cardas Rhodium
5) Various Viborg
6) Oyaide (top model in the range)
7) PS Audio
8) Hospital grade (various)
I don’t feel the need to replace the Yeti outlets at all, they’re totally fine.
Let me cut to the chase: the Yeti reference v2 as a balanced isolation transformer / power conditioner is a beast (no pun intended) + on top of that it doubles as a power distributor (no need for one, and for the extra power cable anymore - as long as you’re ok with 8), a huge benefit in real life to improve SQ by removing extra cables and connection points in the critical (for SQ) power chain. And more cost effective as well.
I am so enthusiastic about this product (the other products that impressed me were QSA and QSAL, and - to some extent but not unreservedly - Schnerzinger) that I’m considering helping Thijs from Yeti (which is really a small company in the NL) in some way in the future to help his product reach more enthusiasts. But as of now, I am just a customer, and that’s the only Yeti product that I have which I purchased with my own money.
A GREAT find and highly recommended.
Link to a test of the Yeti (back then, so this is not the latest version):
Manufacturer
yeti-acoustics.nl
Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions!
In terms of context, I built my own 48v battery powered power source with a large inverter. All my hifi system is plugged on the battery power system I built. I’m using a QSAL Ultimatum power cable from the inverter, and a Schnerzinger grid protector as well (on the battery pack, not on the grid, just to be clear).
I tried a number of power conditioners which I put in the battery power chain (ie battery pack > inverter > QSAL Ultimatum > power conditioner + Schnerzinger GP… i.e., the following were tested):
1) Airlink 2000VA
2) Airlink 3000VA
3) Puritan 156 (had 2 of them)
4) Ansuz Mainz C2
5) Isotek Sigma v3
6) Isotek Titan v5 (this one is only for power amps)
7) AQ Niagara (different models)
8) Isol-8 (forgot the model)
9) Connected Fidelity AC2K reference (this one is cryo)
10) Yeti reference v2 2000W (this one has 8 custom outlets, more on that later, and is the heaviest with 55kg/120 lbs)
11) Custom made Toroidy Supreme (4000VA if I recall properly) - highest grade specs they could sell - balanced isolation transformer
12) PS Audio
13) custom made/Mundorf based DC blockers
For passive power distributor, I was using a Cardas Nautilus.
Bottom line, notable units are:
1) Airlink has very good VFM since they’re so cheap
2) Isotek Titan v5 is fast, punchy, very dynamic and dramatic with low noise floor but could be over the top in some systems - also it’s limited to power amps
3) AC2K is balanced and musical (the one I tried did have a QSA red fuse installed)
4) Yeti reference v2 2000W sounds - by a margin in my system - the biggest, most substantial and “beefy”, more planted, confident sounding, lower noise, less harsh/hash, AND fully fleshed out top to bottom, with strong bass. Just a full, substantial, well developed sound. Effortless, and more importantly, it’s very musical. You don’t think about hifi at all. You just focus on the music. Coincidentally, alpha audio (link below) noticed and wrote the same. The Yeti has a lot of calmness and authority, decreases hardness, and has a very good, organic and European (from the ground up) type of tonal balance. Not in ANY way dry, thin, cold, harsh, analytical etc. I think SQ impact has to do with common mode or similar type of noise - but I’m not an expert on the why.
Apparently, the version I got is the latest and the founder (Thijs) told me he was able to slash the output impedance by a factor of 5. Also, in this latest version, he doesn’t use a fuse anymore to decrease further resistance (he uses something else instead).
Inside there’s a huge medical grade custom made transformer, but what I noticed is that while almost all of the others had toroid transformers, this one was more of an “old school”, square type transformer inside, similar to what you would see in a tube amp. I don’t know the name of those types of transformers or what are the pros and cons, but this was the only one that was like this with the Titan v5 (this one uses a number of smaller square transformers inside… vs a huge one in the Yeti… which weighs about 120 lbs in total).
Also inside, I can see Thijs from Yeti has put unusually heavy gauge cables. A nice touch.
Lastly, the 8 power outlets are custom made of pure copper or silver (an option) and they grip very tightly, in a good way, as we all know that outlet tightness is actually very important for SQ.
Now, on top of being the top performer, at least in my own system, here’s an additional key feature as far as I’m concerned: the Yeti has 8 outlets. Because of that, you don’t need a power cable + power distributor anymore. You can connect all components straight to the Yeti.
Why does it matter? You’re basically decreasing the number of wires and connection points which is then likely to increase the SQ of the whole system since you now have less cables, less outlets, less screws.. etc etc. Some of those conditioners or balanced isolation transformers have only a couple of outlets which means you need a power distributor.
In my view, every time power goes through a cable, a connection point, an outlet etc there’s a loss in sound quality. But with the Yeti it’s straight connections of everything from the Yeti which in my system definitely contributed to an additional boost in SQ, since I was able to remove a Cardas Clear beyond XL + a Cardas Nautilus power distributor. No need anymore. Plus the outlets are just very good quality and for context I own and tested the following outlets:
1) Furutech NCF rhodium and gold
2) Schnerzinger
3) QSA Gold (!)
4) Cardas Rhodium
5) Various Viborg
6) Oyaide (top model in the range)
7) PS Audio
8) Hospital grade (various)
I don’t feel the need to replace the Yeti outlets at all, they’re totally fine.
Let me cut to the chase: the Yeti reference v2 as a balanced isolation transformer / power conditioner is a beast (no pun intended) + on top of that it doubles as a power distributor (no need for one, and for the extra power cable anymore - as long as you’re ok with 8), a huge benefit in real life to improve SQ by removing extra cables and connection points in the critical (for SQ) power chain. And more cost effective as well.
I am so enthusiastic about this product (the other products that impressed me were QSA and QSAL, and - to some extent but not unreservedly - Schnerzinger) that I’m considering helping Thijs from Yeti (which is really a small company in the NL) in some way in the future to help his product reach more enthusiasts. But as of now, I am just a customer, and that’s the only Yeti product that I have which I purchased with my own money.
A GREAT find and highly recommended.
Link to a test of the Yeti (back then, so this is not the latest version):
https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/live-stream-test-power-conditioners-yeti-isol-8-plixir-isotek-en/
Manufacturer
Welkom - Yeti Acoustics
”Audiofiele beleving zonder compromis bereikbaar maken voor iedereen” Yeti Acoustics Yeti Acoustics is een gedreven Nederlands bedrijf gevestigd in Enkhuizen, wat zich richt op de onwikkeling en productie van nuchtere en eerlijke audio produkten. Kenmerkend zijn onze gedrevenheid en hoge mate...
yeti-acoustics.nl
Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions!
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Nice. It sounds like a big U core isolation transformer. I love isolation transformers. I think you do a good job explaining how the correct one can express itself.
In short, you have a 48 volt battery and inverter. What inverter? What size?. Then you go into a balanced power isolation transformer that has 8 built in outlets. You have a Schnerzinger grid protector plugged into one of the outlets on the isolation transformer. Your not connected to the utility power as you can unplug the charger from the wall and be totally isolated???? How are you grounding the island power system.
Good feedback.
Send a picture of the battery and inverter setup.
Thanks\
Rex
In short, you have a 48 volt battery and inverter. What inverter? What size?. Then you go into a balanced power isolation transformer that has 8 built in outlets. You have a Schnerzinger grid protector plugged into one of the outlets on the isolation transformer. Your not connected to the utility power as you can unplug the charger from the wall and be totally isolated???? How are you grounding the island power system.
Good feedback.
Send a picture of the battery and inverter setup.
Thanks\
Rex
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